Every Warframe Should Be Able To Super Jump (Excalibur Should Get A Melee Boost Ability Instead)

[MJ12]

The problems with Super Jump being a unique ability are manifold:

 

1. If the areas reachable only via superjumping are too important/advantageous, it makes Excalibur a must-use Warframe. The only other frame which could theoretically reach those areas will be Loki (due to Decoy/Switch Teleport) and thus limits viable options

 

2. If these areas aren't, it makes Superjump largely a convenience power.

 

3. Superjump runs off of a non-regenerating (by default) energy supply and even when you can regenerate it it takes about 16 seconds to regenerate the energy used (with  max power efficiency + an energy siphon).

 

4. Being able to jump really high is a pretty generic ninja power. I mean, that's basically part of every legendary ninja arsenal in all existence. It shouldn't really be limited to one Warframe.

 

5. Because of random map design, Superjump's effectiveness is extremely variable dependent on the RNG gods and what they give you.

 

6. The fact that you have to upgrade Superjump a ton to actually get a good amount of air makes me sad.

 

7. As a third ability, Superjump is a rare. Despite how limited it is in use, it's still a Rare. This creates a perverse incentive where Superjump cards are valuable as fusion fodder above and beyond the power's actual usefulness as, you know, a power.

 

8. Wallrunning lets you reach areas that you'd normally have to Superjump to. Superjump doesn't work in-air, so you can't synergize it with a wallrun.

 

Now, all of these make me think that Superjump should be given to all Warframes. Hold space to charge a jump, let go when fully charged to jump really high. It'll let everyone look cool, give slower frames a bit of skill-based mobility, synergizes with the increasing number of acrobatic moves, and allows Excalibur a useful third ability. What would that be?

 

I suggest...

 

Inner Knight (Rare)

 

EXCALIBUR channels additional power to its musculature, improving stamina, hit recovery, attack speed, charge attack speed, and melee weapon damage for a limited period of time.

 

75 energy?

 

10/15/20/25 second duration

 

Infinite Stamina for duration, +10/15/20/25% melee/charge damage, attack, and charge speed

 

Immune to stagger (but not knockdown) for the duration of the power

 

That emphasizes that Excalibur is a Warframe focused on melee combat (like its description implies), provides a unique buff power, and gives Excalibur temporary additional mobility (infinite sprint for a short period), defense (infinite blocking), and lethality (bonus melee damage/speed) that helps with its role as the basic 'jack of all trades' starting Warframe.

[FoxStarz]

I totally disagree with you and I won't even bother explaining why.                

 

 

 

P.S. Thanks for the -32... LOL

Edited April 16, 2013 by FoxStarz

[iotimoline]

Ninja leaping would be pretty awesome, especially with the larger number of open tiles now available.

I don't play Excalibur but as a replacement power it sounds pretty solid.

[I00thlurker]

But MJ, how will players realize they're supposed to hide behind boxes if they get extra mobility?!

[MJ12]

But MJ, how will players realize they're supposed to hide behind boxes if they get extra mobility?!

 

We'll also give them the ability to pick up objects, so they can hide behind boxes in midair.

[-CM-Zura]

NO way superjump Really -,- im just doing fine how it is now i cant imagen Banshee whit a super jump i mean i hef Wall run you dont even know how high i can get XD.....Super jump is useless for all warframe from my own opnion i mean if you chek my gameplay XD

 

http://youtu.be/5Ob9O6-RPhQ

[MJ12]

NO way superjump Really -,- im just doing fine how it is now i cant imagen Banshee whit a super jump i mean i hef Wall run you dont even know how high i can get XD.....Super jump is useless for all warframe from my own opnion i mean if you chek my gameplay XD

 

http://youtu.be/5Ob9O6-RPhQ

 

It's still useful for looking really cool and if we get maps with more verticality it'd be even more useful. The problem here is because only one Warframe has it, we can't have maps with more verticality.

 

Imagine if only Ash could wallrun, for example. It'd mean you wouldn't need Wallrun to get anywhere at all, and you'd thus be able to make the exact same argument for wallrun not being available to every Warframe.

[I00thlurker]

We'll also give them the ability to pick up objects, so they can hide behind boxes in midair.

 

Does this mean that Grineer will now have a giant "!" float over their heads when they spot you?

[Mak_Gohae]

So we should also take away Volt's run and give it to everyone because with it you can REALLY reach areas that no one can Wallrunning.

I once spawned on the top beams in the Jackal fight because a Volt wallrun all the way to ceiling.

[MJ12]

So we should also take away Volt's run and give it to everyone because with it you can REALLY reach areas that no one can Wallrunning.

I once spawned on the top beams in the Jackal fight because a Volt wallrun all the way to ceiling.

 

Did you... even bother reading the reasons as to why Super Jump being unique isn't good?

 

Yes, you can get to a few places with wallrun + Speed that other people can't, but that's as much a design problem as anything else (and the fact that it's Volt, not Excalibur, which can get to the highest places also is more evidence that Super Jump should be a generic all-Warframe ability). That doesn't change that it's not its sole purpose.

 

And everyone has the ability to temporarily move faster, Mak. It's called 'sprint'. It's bound to the Shift key by default. So your argument really doesn't hold water there either.

[Exhack]

So we should also take away Volt's run and give it to everyone because with it you can REALLY reach areas that no one can Wallrunning.

I once spawned on the top beams in the Jackal fight because a Volt wallrun all the way to ceiling.

 

Sure, and Volt can get a new, cooler power in turn. Sounds fair to me.

[Sherbniz]

Wallrunning is a pretty epic way of getting around already, but I wouldn't mind more vertical movement abilities.

Perhaps we could have a charged jump that happens if you jump from a crouch, or jump while charging your weapon?

(Perhaps a LARGE uppercut jump that allows you to get nice and high-up?)

Having "Multi-Warframe" Abilities sounds... intriguing. It opens up a LOT of great possibilities!

Especially utility-skills like Excaliburs "Super Jump" and Volt's "Speed" could be wonderful to have for other Warframes.

[-CM-Zura]

It's still useful for looking really cool and if we get maps with more verticality it'd be even more useful. The problem here is because only one Warframe has it, we can't have maps with more verticality.

 

Imagine if only Ash could wallrun, for example. It'd mean you wouldn't need Wallrun to get anywhere at all, and you'd thus be able to make the exact same argument for wallrun not being available to every Warframe.

Question what maps do you even hef in mind i hef a Excalibur prime and i dint even bother to upgare the superjump Bcuz i hef wall runing 

 

an other question do you use alot of wallruning or do you use Excalibur whit superjump all the time whare you go or to Reach like high Sniping spots?

whit Long Long range and a nice view to Fire ?

[MJ12]

Question what maps do you even hef in mind i hef a Excalibur prime and i dint even bother to upgare the superjump Bcuz i hef wall runing 

 

an other question do you use alot of wallruning or do you use Excalibur whit superjump all the time whare you go or to Reach like high Sniping spots?

whit Long Long range and a nice view to Fire ?

 

I have in mind theoretical maps with more verticality here. I haven't used Superjump for a while now after I found out how limited it was (especially after Wallruns came out). Like I said, the uselessness of superjump is tied into the fact that it's a unique mobility power. If it's too useful it makes one Warframe a must-use and that's bad for the game.

 

If you decouple it there can be plenty more places you can only reach via superjumping/a combination of superjump and wallruns that make vertical mobility much more useful.

[Zectifin]

I totally agree with you and I won't even bother explaining why.

[Mak_Gohae]

Did you... even bother reading the reasons as to why Super Jump being unique isn't good?

 

Yes, you can get to a few places with wallrun + Speed that other people can't, but that's as much a design problem as anything else (and the fact that it's Volt, not Excalibur, which can get to the highest places also is more evidence that Super Jump should be a generic all-Warframe ability). That doesn't change that it's not its sole purpose.

 

And everyone has the ability to temporarily move faster, Mak. It's called 'sprint'. It's bound to the Shift key by default. So your argument really doesn't hold water there either.

 

No i didnt read the reasons and that's why i replied to something specifically mentioned in your post..... because i READ MINDS through the internet.

I disagree with your post and replied to your only point that seem to have any merit, you want to me to reply to the rest to show how i specifically disagree to all points?

[OrtuOcelot]

I like the variety of each frame, but would not want a "super" jump for them all. A "charged" jump, sure, but not like Excalibur's. Which I never even bothered testing out because as of now, like stated many times, wall running and parkour gets you anywhere you want to go, maybe if there were bigger maps that had the NEED, it would be viable but, for now what we have at hand is good enough for me.

[Morgo]

Wow, another person that find useful superjump as me. I tought i was alone XD

 

But I disagree completly. One of the reasons of excalibur, is precisely that. 10 energy allows you to go to a lot of places others can't or at least allow you to reach those places really fast. I agree with the idea of giving to other warframes some kind of charged jump, a lesser one, maybe twice the default jump. Sometimes it could be handy. 

 

About the new possible skill, in the last Q&A video they already mentioned that they have 1 new skill for Excalibur. 

 

 

8. Wallrunning lets you reach areas that you'd normally have to Superjump to. Superjump doesn't work in-air, so you can't synergize it with a wallrun.

 

Sorry to tell you man, but you are partially wrong with that. You can't superjump in the air, true. But you can superjump in the middle of both wallruns (vertical or horizontal), and also you can superjump and then start a wallrun, as long as you were sprinting when you did the superjump, so it's synergizes pretty well like now, IMO,

 

Also, did you know that Focus increase the jump?

 

But since you also suggested new skills for excalibur, i will give my piece on that. 

 

Since Excalibur is the only warframe that has a skill damage associated to his melee weapon, let's focus on that. 

------------------

Energyze blade 

 

75 energy

 

Excalibur induces his sword with pure energy

 

Your melee weapon will be improved like this, added armour ignoring, stumble on hit property (bosses included) and +30%/+65%/+120% damage to melee and charged damage

Also, breaks instantiously shields, absorving 20% of them (or maximum shield on excalibur)

Duration 3/7/12 seconds.

 

During the use of the ability, you can't use your guns.

 

By the way, the sword looks won't be like a jedi sword, would be more like a blue emanation from your melee weapon/s

[MJ12]

No i didnt read the reasons and that's why i replied to something specifically mentioned in your post..... because i READ MINDS through the internet.

I disagree with your post and replied to your only point that seem to have any merit, you want to me to reply to the rest to show how i specifically disagree to all points?

Actually you just made up a strawman, that being "SUPERJUMP LETS YOU GET TO PLACES NOBODY ELSE CAN THUS EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE IT".

Which is exactly the opposite of my point. My point being that "because you can get to places nobody else can on maps this actually cripples the utility of superjump because of balance, largely making it a convenience power". You can also disagree with the idea that a thousand credits (actually, for a max level superjump it's more like 8,000 credits) is less useful than slight convenience but you'd pretty much be objectively wrong.

My point isn't "Superjump should be given to everyone because it lets you get to places nobody else can". My point is that Superjump is nearly impossible to balance if given to one specific Frame because mobility is so map-dependent, and that giving every Warframe more abilities to deal with vertical maps allows for more creative level design, instead of going "Oh you can't make this complex tower, only Excaliburs can negotiate it".

It'd be like giving only Ash wallrun. It limits level design options intensely.

It's a power that literally only allows Excalibur to jump really high, getting to places other Warframes can't, except those places largely don't exist because only Excalibur has it and it costs energy to use anyways, thus making it largely only useful for convenience. And that's sad because jumping high is really, really cool.

Edited April 15, 2013 by MJ12

[Mak_Gohae]

Actually you just made up a strawman, that being "SUPERJUMP LETS YOU GET TO PLACES NOBODY ELSE CAN THUS EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE IT".

Which is exactly the opposite of my point. My point being that "because you can get to places nobody else can on maps this actually cripples the utility of superjump because of balance, largely making it a convenience power". You can also disagree with the idea that a thousand credits (actually, for a max level superjump it's more like 8,000 credits) is less useful than slight convenience but you'd pretty much be objectively wrong.

My point isn't "Superjump should be given to everyone because it lets you get to places nobody else can". My point is that Superjump is nearly impossible to balance if given to one specific Frame because mobility is so map-dependent, and that giving every Warframe more abilities to deal with vertical maps allows for more creative level design, instead of going "Oh you can't make this complex tower, only Excaliburs can negotiate it".

It'd be like giving only Ash wallrun. It limits level design options intensely.

It's a power that literally only allows Excalibur to jump really high, getting to places other Warframes can't, except those places largely don't exist because only Excalibur has it and it costs energy to use anyways, thus making it largely only useful for convenience. And that's sad because jumping high is really, really cool.

 

You are creating a scenario that has not happened in the game yet and have no idea about ever happening with the game makers.

[MJ12]

You are creating a scenario that has not happened in the game yet and have no idea about ever happening with the game makers.

 

I am creating a scenario which has already happened. Superjump is intensely limiting to level design because it means that only one frame can jump really high which means that any levels which involve jumping really high and far would be limited to only Excalibur (and dependent on the terrain, maybe Volt if you're good at wallruns?)

 

If you can't understand the reason 'increased verticality' is not a thing is because most Warframes can't handle it that's your problem, not mine.

[Cabulb]

How about the ability to double jump instead?

[MJ12]

How about the ability to double jump instead?

 

Could work as well.

[Mak_Gohae]

I am creating a scenario which has already happened. Superjump is intensely limiting to level design because it means that only one frame can jump really high which means that any levels which involve jumping really high and far would be limited to only Excalibur (and dependent on the terrain, maybe Volt if you're good at wallruns?)

 

If you can't understand the reason 'increased verticality' is not a thing is because most Warframes can't handle it that's your problem, not mine.

 

Do you want to show us has it happened? Your theories aren't proof, by the way.

[MJ12]

Do you want to show us has it happened? Your theories aren't proof, by the way.

 

If you aren't capable of actually looking at the levels and realizing why most of them are so horizontal (FYI: it is because of the lack of vertical movement) and why several rooms have oh-so-convenient rockslides and such (FYI: this is because most Warframes cannot jump high) that you can walk to the roof on I really don't know what to say.

 

But it's fairly obvious that the lack of vertical mobility creates a design constraint on the tiles.