Should Tempest Barrage's Interaction With Range Be Changed?

[Lvl99Gamer]

So I think Tempest Barrage (Hydroid's first ability) is one of the coolest skills in the game!

However its interaction with Power Range is currently very iffy. Since the skill is primarily used for its AoE CC functionality you want the range to be as big as possible obviously.

But here's the thing; while power range DOES increase its AoE it also decreases its effectiveness as enemies have a much easier time walking through the entire area of effect without getting hit and you do NOT want that lvl 80 Corrupted Gunner just walking through without a care in the world.

Now on paper this interaction makes sorta sense as the blasts have to cover a much wider area and while the blast radius also increases there's a much bigger chance of an enemy getting through, this is especially true since the blasts spawn higher as well increasing the chance of them getting stuck on random terrain (which already happens a lot without range increasing mods). The thing is, normally this kind of interaction is reserved for a mod like Overextended and the only other skill I can think of that has an interaction like this is Saryn's Miasma with a positive statistic affecting a skill negatively.

So my question is, should this interaction be kept as a sort of ''double edged blade'' or be altered so it won't be affected negatively by what should be a positive mod.

[OnnaJReverT]

i think the impacs should benefit more from range, Problem solved

Edited August 28, 2014 by OnnaJReverT

[Garuda112]

If anything, the AOE of each individual shot should be scaled to compensate. So, basically, the larger the "blast zone radius", the larger the individual shot AOE that can cause damage.

[Ritchel]

good topic, i also like the comment ideas of making the range of the impact wider,

at its current state if you put range mods its unlikely to hit which is odd

[Otenko]

I think Tempest Barrage is awesome too. It's probably one of my favorite skills, and at least one of my favorite 1s.

 

To be honest though, the blind spots in Tempest Barrage sound like an oversight to me. If someone likes the "double-edged sword" aspect of it, then that's cool. But the blind spots only serve to make his other area denial skills to be more appealing, namely Tentacular Swarm and Underpuddle.

 

As a double-edge sword though, I think that these blind spots are more of an oversight because they're not that meaningful of a consequence. I mean, as it stands, it's something of a dice roll. With max range, you don't have to worry about pinpointing the enemy's location before casting.  But they could just as easily walk through it scot-free. Instead of the skill having diminished functionality, it flat-out won't work sometimes.

 

I'd compare Max Range Pull to Max Range Tempest Barrage.

 

Max Range Pull means you're going to be pulling a pretty big area and a potential buttload of enemies. However, it also means you're going to be throwing them all over the room. They could wind up getting up right next to you, across the room, or even out of sight. The point is that having Max Range Pull means that you can knockdown tons of enemies, but simultaneously put yourself in a disadvantageous situation (being swarmed when they get up). Also, I think Pull is one of the more obtrusive skills in the game, especially when enemies/loot fall into pits.

 

As such, I sometimes use a lower ranked Pull to have a smaller pull cone.

 

Max Range Tempest Barrage on the other hand alleviates some of the aiming you need to do before casting. But the headache you save in aiming could return by the enemy effectively ignoring  your ability. Instead of it being a guaranteed consequence from a situation you caused, it ends up being a skill of chance (assuming bomb drop locations are random).

With Pull, at least it's going to work every time you cast it (if you don't pull a knocked down enemy). With this, it becomes a guess.

I personally think this consequence is more a matter of developer oversight than intentional function.

 

I think I had a more well-formatted post earlier, but I accidentally reloaded the page while typing. Pretty sure this is most of it at least.

 

EDIT: Oh right, as for what +range should do. I think the bomb blast radius should increase with range mods. At least increase it enough to make blind spots few and far between.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Otenko

[Earthcaller]

The impact aoe is already increased when you increase range.  It's not meant to be this colossal aoe cc that you can just throw anywhere and have it work fine.  It's meant to be a zoning tool.  If you use Narrow Minded, it makes the zone smaller and much more focused, while also pushing the duration above 11 seconds.  If you want large area cc, use the tentacles.  If you want controlled spammable damage and cc, don't use range mods on barrage.

[Lvl99Gamer]

The impact aoe is already increased when you increase range.  It's not meant to be this colossal aoe cc that you can just throw anywhere and have it work fine.  It's meant to be a zoning tool.  If you use Narrow Minded, it makes the zone smaller and much more focused, while also pushing the duration above 11 seconds.  If you want large area cc, use the tentacles.  If you want controlled spammable damage and cc, don't use range mods on barrage.

Barrage is definitely not meant for damage though, the thing is that Barrage is MEANT to be a zoning tool. But the problem is that by trying to mod the ONE thing that you'd want to improve on an AoE skill actually affects it negatively.

If I can recall correctly skills aren't really supposed to have that interaction unless you use Corrupted mods (The exception being Miasma which might be just a bug DE cant be bothered to fix)

[Earthcaller]

Barrage is definitely not meant for damage though, the thing is that Barrage is MEANT to be a zoning tool. But the problem is that by trying to mod the ONE thing that you'd want to improve on an AoE skill actually affects it negatively.

If I can recall correctly skills aren't really supposed to have that interaction unless you use Corrupted mods (The exception being Miasma which might be just a bug DE cant be bothered to fix)

But it's supposed to be a neatly controlled zoning tool.  Not a, "Drop this ability with GIGANTIC @(*()$ AOE and stop an entire half of the map from getting to you for 10 seconds" kind of tool.  The way barrage is meant to work is to theoretically pummel the same units into the ground repeatedly and completely stop movement within its aoe.  If DE made it so that it could do that over an unbelievably huge range, there'd be no point in using almost any other frame.  It's supposed to be a small area (or spawn point) zoning tool.  Trying to make it do anything else defeats the purpose of Hydroid's other huge aoe cc moves.

 

This is the build I'm using:  http://goo.gl/EZE1Rt

Edited August 28, 2014 by Earthcaller

[Tulzscha]

Should you be posting this topic in the proper section? (Yes, you should. :D)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-a-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[Archistopheles]

(Opinion) It should benefit from all 3: Power Strength, Duration, and Range. Strength should give more blasts per second, Duration should extend the number of seconds the ability lasts, and Range should cover a larger area. This way to fully maximize the ability, you have to add everything, which gives players more customization options.

[Earthcaller]

Why should it, though?  If everything was easy-peezy to theorycraft, there'd be zero point in making all these different frames with unique and interesting abilities.  If you have to make some trade-offs here and there, it forces people to choose their builds carefully and consider all the trade-offs.  In short, why should you get a bunch of free power from every single mod in the game with no down-sides ever?  Sounds like you should be playing WoW if you wanted simple stats...

 

P.S. Making the mods add everything as the poster before me suggested gives players LESS options, not more.  There'd be exactly one build on every Hydroid ever if it worked the way you wanted.  The trade-offs are what force build diversity.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Earthcaller