The Valkyr Hysteria Debate - Make Her A True Bloodlust Frame!

[GTG3000]

I think it would be fun if the Hysteria was reworked as such:

 

- A toggle ability, with 75 starting cost and 5/sec additional cost. High activation price is to make sure that people think twice before wasting it to pulse and switch off instantly.

 

- While active, the player is limited to melee, with 25% life steal. Not sure if it would invalidate the claws, but would be fun to have ability to switch to actual player melee. While ability is active, hitting enemies with Ripline and shieldbash counts as combo hits.

 

- Instead of complete invulnerability, the hysteria now gives you 50% additional damage reduction, and does not allow your health to drop past 10.

 

- If the player is damaged while at minimum health, additional energy cost is applied at rate of 10 per 1000 of damage, limited to 5xArmor damage per 5 seconds. If the player fails to regenerate the shields, the cap is risen at rate of 5, up to 25xArmor damage. If the power runs out while Valkyr is at 10 health, the ability explodes, disabling and applying radiation proc to enemies in wide range, instatnly putting valkyr into bleedout state.

[Azawarau]

<--- Valkyr player, formad for the first time and more planned. I rarely use Hysteria except when genuinely needed and then it is exactly right for what I need it for. Player res for the moronic hero in a PUG who runs into the biggest batch of enemies and dies etc. Where Ripline cannot get a lock. Pretty sure you've all been there.

 

If you don't play the frame, go play the game. It's not broken, there is a bigger picture balancing act at stake.

 

I honestly thought I'd love Trinity having usually played Healers as a main in most MMO. Trinity's good, definately scales into the game, definately has a team co-op role, but I could not get into playing her. Too slow, not a broad enough range of heals, clunky. Yet I can see why people would love her.

 

I never play melee, yet I'm loving Valkyr and melee is my primary damage - yes warcry when I remember to hit it lol. Never thought I'd enjoy tanking. The choreography and fluidity of the movements give me the warm and fuzzies.

 

Most builds can be built several different ways and have diverse strategies. Mag showed me this first, Loki opened up a whole new way of looking at life (Loki Love). But Valkyr, as she is right now and the way I'm building her (not around Hysteria) gives me the most joy.

 

The reality in any game, is if something can be spammed, someone is going to spam it. We cannot shift that paradigm. Just accept that it is probably someone without skills or a youngster that discovered a new trick, which should make you OP enough not to be worried about it.

 

If other people's playstyles are irritating you, then don't play with them. Really, go solo, get a clan, get some friends, get a better gaming life. Probably most of us have found our joy, please, don't touch.

 

Share the love :)

Competetive PvE envinronment

 

Bypassing challenges given and various game mechanics entirely

 

Get out of jail free card

 

Press button to win

 

Instant Crutch

 

Useless for people who actually main the frame

 

People who want to keep it even use its uselessness a a reason

 

Whats not to change?

[Arabaxus]

Competetive PvE envinronment

 

Bypassing challenges given and various game mechanics entirely

 

Get out of jail free card

 

Press button to win

 

Instant Crutch

 

Useless for people who actually main the frame

 

People who want to keep it even use its uselessness a a reason

 

Whats not to change?

 

------

 

Its a better option than hysteria

 

All the more reason not to use it

 

Bleeding willow melee

Im just adding to the list of why hysteria is bad

 

To make a long argument short

 

The build i had in that video could be done almost without a single forma and get just as far

 

In fact my girlfriend used a copy build without forma and reached 60 minutes with me

 

The friend that invited me to warframe did the same and we reached 65 minutes

 

Keep in mind this is no forma Valkyr

 

Your damage output and potential DPS drop dramatically from losing status procs,AoE dmg,AoE proc boosts, and side bonuses such as berserker and extra combo multiplier damage from attack speed boosts

 

Youre literally gimping yourself in damage for a god mode thats only useful for easy missions or reviving fallen allies

 

 

Here I have some of your previous statements. You claim on one hand that Hysteria is "Press 4 to Win" or an "Instant Crutch" while also claiming it's useless. Aside from the blatant hypocrisy, you talk about how you can have an effective invincibility with Valkyr even without Hysteria that is potentially better for late game. Both provide effective invincibility. So what is the difference between Hysteria and your Life Strike melee build? They are both arguably just as broken, especially if it requires no Forma.

 

Let us also consider your other statements, which I have italicized for easy access. These statements are purely subjective, as what you perceive as uselessness is in your eyes and may not be in others. Meanwhile, you argue that the ability is useless in endgame besides reviving people, which last I checked is a legitimate use for Hysteria. Besides that, others may not want to utilize Life Strike due to energy consumption or simply not having it.

 

 

If i cared about DPS most i wouldnt be using a build thats entirely focused on stun utility and effective life striking

 

If its not an end game mission then hysteria is as broken as old rhino iron skin was

 

God mode/easy mode =/= good gameplay mechanics

 

In another previous statement you argue about how Hysteria is broken in a non-endgame mission. Which is arguably true for many Warframe Abilities, especially ults. generally tied to the four key. Avalanche, Rhino Stomp, Tentacle Swarm, Bladestorm, all decimate enemies in a large radius at the push of a button on non-endgame missions. At the very worst, you have to press the button again. Current Iron Skin has always been talked about as overpowered early game, but near useless at high levels, which is its trade-off. There are many things that are broken in non-end game missions, especially when endgame is a nebulous idea that has not been solidly defined in Warframe. You can argue that half the weapons with mods that are ranked decently enough are overpowered because they near instantly kill most enemies.

 

You also claim in a previous statement that you lose DPS potential using Hysteria. If you make a channeling build with Dual Ichors, regarded as one of the highest DPS melee weapons in the game, you hit potentially 3.6k DPS.

 

With Hysteria, due to the attack speed not reliant on weapon modifications, if you use the formula:

 

300 + 1.75 * Power Strength * Damage mods * Base damage of weapon, 

 

With a Dragon Nikana, which can easily achieve over 550 base damage

 

 

So 300 + 1.75*1.99*.9*85.1 = 566

With Channeling's Killing Blow that is 1190 damage with a free passive life gain included.

 

Then with 24% Critical and 380% Crit multiplier added onto the 200% Crit Multiplier and base 25%, you get a 49% chance to hit a 380% Crit and a 49% Chance to hit a 200% Crit, effectively increasing damage output by 1.4x and 0.5x respectively. 

 

1190 * 2.9 = 3451

 

Then I think it is safe to assume Valkyr is capable of 1.2 hits per second. That equates to 4142DPS, with a 5% lifesteal at no channeling efficiency penalty past the base 100%. You can argue crowd control capabilities with specific weapons but this clearly shows that it has higher single target potential, which means you have a choice between CC or single-target, which last I checked, both of which are legitimate options.

 

So as of right now, no, I don't think Hysteria needs to be changed.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

^Arabaxus

I'm assuming you are on PC so Hysteria's base should be closer to this: http://i.imgur.com/7KmrQud.jpg (From GU14.6 onwards)

[FarStike]

Competetive PvE envinronment

 

Bypassing challenges given and various game mechanics entirely

 

Get out of jail free card

 

Press button to win

 

Instant Crutch

 

Useless for people who actually main the frame

 

People who want to keep it even use its uselessness a a reason

 

Whats not to change?

 

Aza - not having a go at you - completely do not understand what on earth your response to my input was. It appears to be just some random words. Did you quote me by accident as none of what you said under it relates in any way to my post.

 

And Yes I main Valkyrie.

 

Also - you've mentioned a few times in various posts across the forums that people are entitled to their own opinion. I agree with this as well and also accept that others will have opinions that differ from my own.

[Azawarau]

------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here I have some of your previous statements. You claim on one hand that Hysteria is "Press 4 to Win" or an "Instant Crutch" while also claiming it's useless. Aside from the blatant hypocrisy, you talk about how you can have an effective invincibility with Valkyr even without Hysteria that is potentially better for late game. Both provide effective invincibility. So what is the difference between Hysteria and your Life Strike melee build? They are both arguably just as broken, especially if it requires no Forma.

 

Let us also consider your other statements, which I have italicized for easy access. These statements are purely subjective, as what you perceive as uselessness is in your eyes and may not be in others. Meanwhile, you argue that the ability is useless in endgame besides reviving people, which last I checked is a legitimate use for Hysteria. Besides that, others may not want to utilize Life Strike due to energy consumption or simply not having it.

 

 

 

 

In another previous statement you argue about how Hysteria is broken in a non-endgame mission. Which is arguably true for many Warframe Abilities, especially ults. generally tied to the four key. Avalanche, Rhino Stomp, Tentacle Swarm, Bladestorm, all decimate enemies in a large radius at the push of a button on non-endgame missions. At the very worst, you have to press the button again. Current Iron Skin has always been talked about as overpowered early game, but near useless at high levels, which is its trade-off. There are many things that are broken in non-end game missions, especially when endgame is a nebulous idea that has not been solidly defined in Warframe. You can argue that half the weapons with mods that are ranked decently enough are overpowered because they near instantly kill most enemies.

 

You also claim in a previous statement that you lose DPS potential using Hysteria. If you make a channeling build with Dual Ichors, regarded as one of the highest DPS melee weapons in the game, you hit potentially 3.6k DPS.

 

With Hysteria, due to the attack speed not reliant on weapon modifications, if you use the formula:

 

300 + 1.75 * Power Strength * Damage mods * Base damage of weapon, 

 

With a Dragon Nikana, which can easily achieve over 550 base damage

 

 

So 300 + 1.75*1.99*.9*85.1 = 566

With Channeling's Killing Blow that is 1190 damage with a free passive life gain included.

 

Then with 24% Critical and 380% Crit multiplier added onto the 200% Crit Multiplier and base 25%, you get a 49% chance to hit a 380% Crit and a 49% Chance to hit a 200% Crit, effectively increasing damage output by 1.4x and 0.5x respectively. 

 

1190 * 2.9 = 3451

 

Then I think it is safe to assume Valkyr is capable of 1.2 hits per second. That equates to 4142DPS, with a 5% lifesteal at no channeling efficiency penalty past the base 100%. You can argue crowd control capabilities with specific weapons but this clearly shows that it has higher single target potential, which means you have a choice between CC or single-target, which last I checked, both of which are legitimate options.

 

So as of right now, no, I don't think Hysteria needs to be changed.

Is the concept too hard for your head to wrap around or are you still trying to play dumb to draw out something other than what ive already aid?

 

Hysteria is broken and useless

 

Its Low risk/Low reward in end game and easymode in most anything else

 

Its less useful than simply not using it in terms of damage output and various utilities

 

Its often used to bypass challenges set such as nightmare mode,bosses, limiting or high damage events

 

Its broken and useless and OP all at the same time

 

Aza - not having a go at you - completely do not understand what on earth your response to my input was. It appears to be just some random words. Did you quote me by accident as none of what you said under it relates in any way to my post.

 

And Yes I main Valkyrie.

 

Also - you've mentioned a few times in various posts across the forums that people are entitled to their own opinion. I agree with this as well and also accept that others will have opinions that differ from my own.

It was completely relevant

 

Those are the issues with hysteria

[xepher2]

First, let me state that any ability with over 10sec invincible is totally not a healthy game mechanic. If you really need the invincible, at least add some semi-permanent debuff to it. The goal for hysteria would be similar to the warcry build (seeing your hp jumping up and down and fulfill the berserker high risk high reward theme). So I would like hysteria rework like this:

 

-Take away invincible

-free paralysis and regain full health while activating the skill

-each kill restores full health

-gain additional damage (and armor?) while low on health

-DR inversely proportion to health (with a base of 50%)

-CC immune

-enemies will show on mini map

-melee weapon damage add back to claws!!

-double movement speed

 

And there are problems on the hysteria combo as well. While they really look cool, but they are not practical. Especially the current pattern of combos (pause/ hold), who would really remember them when you are in front of a heavy gunner while u got  only 100hp left!!!!  A rework of combo is needed. Short range of claws is also a problem. Bigger claws or bonus range on different combos or warcry adding bonus melee range would be the solutions. An close-medium attack is needed to add to the combo list so she can deal with airborne enemies too.

 

And most importantly, EXPLOSIONS on channeling claws!!  so basically when u kill an enemy it ll explode, damaging nearby enemies

 

 

Thanks for reading

Edited September 16, 2014 by xepher2

[Azawarau]

First, let me state that any ability with over 10sec invincible is totally not a healthy game mechanic. If you really need the invincible, at least add some semi-permanent debuff to it. The goal for hysteria would be similar to the warcry build (seeing your hp jumping up and down and fulfill the berserker high risk high reward theme). So I would like hysteria rework like this:

 

-Take away invincible

-free paralysis and regain full health while activating the skill

-each kill restores full health

-gain additional damage (and armor?) while low on health

-DR inversely proportion to health (with a base of 50%)

-CC immune

-enemies will show on mini map

-melee weapon damage add back to claws!!

-double movement speed

 

And there are problems on the hysteria combo as well. While they really look cool, but they are not practical. Especially the current pattern of combos (pause/ hold), who would really remember them when you are in front of a heavy gunner while u got  only 100hp left!!!!  A rework of combo is needed. Short range of claws is also a problem. Bigger claws or bonus range on different combos or warcry adding bonus melee range would be the solutions. An close-medium attack is needed to add to the combo list so she can deal with airborne enemies too.

 

And most importantly, EXPLOSIONS on channeling claws!!  so basically when u kill an enemy it ll explode, damaging nearby enemies

 

 

Thanks for reading

DR reverse proportion to health + QT would be OP :x

[Eudamon]

I like Hysteria the way it is. I seriously do not quite understand the obsession with nerfing thing.

 

Also, anyone who claims that something "has no place in Warframe" automatically loses all right to be heard.

[xepher2]

DR reverse proportion to health + QT would be OP :x

ah!!  sorry, totally forgotten QT combo

just got an better idea

-being killed in hysteria wont let you down, instead hysteria will still on within bleedout time. Killing the enemy who killed you (or the enemy get killed) will get you an instant revive. 

 

well this sounds OP already but much more fun than invincible :3

[FarStike]

Totally disagree with the Valkyrie bashing. At least the OP mains Valkyrie. I disagree with user input re Hysteria needing changes. Vociforous comments from players who do not main the frame are also misleading and not appropriate.

 

In almost all threads on various frames, most posters acknowledge that they don't use all the powers. Most also acknowledge that they build their warframe to support a specific gamestyle that works for them. The powers cannot be tailored around our individual preferences. Else we would end up with 700,000 Loki, 700 000 Ash etc configurations etc.

 

If any power is gamebreakingly broken, or not performing as intended, creating a boring frame or a useless power, then there will be an expected DE fix/tweak. However these are exceptions. (Like the Trinity tweaks)

 

Hysteria is not broken. There is a bigger overall picture and there is more than one way to play a frame. If you find one that works for you then great. If not then try a different frame. Frame customisations are colour and build focused. There are no customisations on the individual powers per player.

 

Happy gaming :)

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Hysteria is not broken.

Yes, it is.  Full invincibility with mobility is broken.  DE has been systematically removing invincibility from the game.  Hysteria should be no exception.

[Azawarau]

ah!!  sorry, totally forgotten QT combo

just got an better idea

-being killed in hysteria wont let you down, instead hysteria will still on within bleedout time. Killing the enemy who killed you (or the enemy get killed) will get you an instant revive. 

 

well this sounds OP already but much more fun than invincible :3

That does sound more interesting  but OP...

 

Yes, it is.  Full invincibility with mobility is broken.  DE has been systematically removing invincibility from the game.  Hysteria should be no exception.

The big key here is ,mobility

 

The main reason why Absorb wasnt included despite lack of mobility is simply that mobility was almost not needed for its most used purpose

 

Defend an objective

 

Just felt the need to point that out to others

[Arabaxus]

Is the concept too hard for your head to wrap around or are you still trying to play dumb to draw out something other than what ive already aid?

 

Hysteria is broken and useless

 

Its Low risk/Low reward in end game and easymode in most anything else

 

Its less useful than simply not using it in terms of damage output and various utilities

 

Its often used to bypass challenges set such as nightmare mode,bosses, limiting or high damage events

 

Its broken and useless and OP all at the same time

 

It was completely relevant

 

Those are the issues with hysteria

 

If it is overpowered, then the effective invicibility granted by your previous Life Strike QT example should also be accordingly nerfed. Indiscriminately removing all forms of invincibility is the fairest way to go. Ash has to be able to die while using Bladestorm. Hydroid can't be invincible while using Undertow. Nyx has to be able to be damaged even if the bubble hasn't run out yet. If the goal is to completely remove a valid gimmick that player enjoy, removing it universally is the fairest way to go.

 

If it is useless to you, and 60%+ of respondees to another poll about Hysteria think otherwise, then it is clear that this is a minority opinion, and the last time a minority opinion was appeased to, the forum went through a good week or two of bickering, with the changes affecting the minority in no way, shape or form, and the majority were affected negatively. If it isn't actually broken, there is no reason to change or "fix" anything, which is advice not only for this game, but life.

 

I seriously think you need to pick a side before you further continue discussion. Asserting something and contradicting yourself in the next line shows a fundamentally flawed stance, or in this case, the lack of a stance.

 

Also before someone claims I'm making up statistics, here is the poll:

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5415ff87e4b088456e71c9d4

 

Started by Azawarau him/herself.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Arabaxus

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If it is overpowered, then the effective invicibility granted by your previous Life Strike QT example should also be accordingly nerfed

That isn't invincibility.  It is out healing damage.  There is a massive difference.

[Arabaxus]

That isn't invincibility.  It is out healing damage.  There is a massive difference.

 

That ends up serving the exact same purpose. You simply don't die because of abusing a mechanic. QT and Rage wasn't invincibility, it was also simply healing out damage with energy. You could die, just like with Life Strike/QT, except you basically didn't.

 

Again, if you want to remove a gimmick, remove it completely and indiscriminately, because then there is absolutely no bias towards any playstyle.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

That ends up serving the exact same purpose. You simply don't die because of abusing a mechanic. QT and Rage wasn't invincibility, it was also simply healing out damage with energy. You could die, just like with Life Strike/QT, except you basically didn't.

 

Again, if you want to remove a gimmick, remove it completely and indiscriminately, because then there is absolutely no bias towards any playstyle.

You can still be killed with it.  Hysteria makes dying literally impossible as long as it is active.

[Arabaxus]

You can still be killed with it.  Hysteria makes dying literally impossible as long as it is active.

 Again, so it Quick Thinking and Rage, yet that was nerfed.

 

The only fundamental difference with Life Strike is that you have to tap E (or your PS4 melee equivalent button) and channel occasionally, while still utilizing Rage, and from what Azawarau has stated before, Quick Thinking as well.

 

If anything, this appears more discriminatory against newer players, because a gimmick that used to be available with two mods now demands three, alongside a decently ranked Vitality and Steel Fibre, and the previous other requirements such as Flow.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

 Again, so it Quick Thinking and Rage, yet that was nerfed.

 

The only fundamental difference with Life Strike is that you have to tap E (or your PS4 melee equivalent button) and channel occasionally, while still utilizing Rage, and from what Azawarau has stated before, Quick Thinking as well.

 

If anything, this appears more discriminatory against newer players, because a gimmick that used to be available with two mods now demands three, alongside a decently ranked Vitality and Steel Fibre, and the previous other requirements such as Flow.

Rage and quick thinking use to cause a loop that granted true immortality. Rage and Life strike doesn't. If you are in a room surrounded by level 9999 infested, LS + Rage isn't going to save you.

 

Hysteria will let you just ignore them, as long as you get away before it wears off.

 

That is the fundamental difference.

[Arabaxus]

Rage and quick thinking use to cause a loop that granted true immortality. Rage and Life strike doesn't. If you are in a room surrounded by level 9999 infested, LS + Rage isn't going to save you.

 

Hysteria will let you just ignore them, as long as you get away before it wears off.

 

That is the fundamental difference.

 

I have died before the recent QT/Rage fix from level 30 Infested through melee attacks and Volatile Runners, tested in Orokin Derelict Assassinate. I purposely eliminated all the Ancient Disruptors and Eximus units so there would be no energy drain. 

 

So no, it did not give true immortality. Even back then there was no "invincibility" in this definition sense. This was tested with the largest energy pool possible, Loki Prime with maximized Flow. 

 

So there is the actual difference.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I have died before the recent QT/Rage fix from level 30 Infested through melee attacks and Volatile Runners, tested in Orokin Derelict Assassinate. I purposely eliminated all the Ancient Disruptors and Eximus units so there would be no energy drain. 

 

So no, it did not give true immortality. Even back then there was no "invincibility" in this definition sense. This was tested with the largest energy pool possible, Loki Prime with maximized Flow. 

 

So there is the actual difference.

Even if that were true, the Rage + QT combo was far more efficient and required no player interaction. Life Strike is far more risky and requires the player to actively engage in trying to survive.

[Arabaxus]

Even if that were true, the Rage + QT combo was far more efficient and required no player interaction. Life Strike is far more risky and requires the player to actively engage in trying to survive.

 

Again, a passive play-style versus an proactive play-style. Discriminatory changes are not right.

[Azawarau]

Again, a passive play-style versus an proactive play-style. Discriminatory changes are not right.

Youre using that to defend hysteria?

[Arabaxus]

Youre using that to defend hysteria?

 

Thank you for a blatant accusation with no reasoning from a player with repeated incidents of blatant hypocrisy.

 

If you would like to substantiate that assertion, please do.

[Azawarau]

Thank you for a blatant accusation with no reasoning from a player with repeated incidents of blatant hypocrisy.

 

If you would like to substantiate that assertion, please do.

Accusation? It was a question

 

Way to jump off the deep end

 

If you want to shoot toes i wont stop you but at least keep it clean