Puncture Mods Are Still Not Worth It

[plznohurtme]

realistically speaking there is no reason to modify the way that the current puncture works, they just need to buff it to around 4m maximum and lower the cost to only take the place of one damage increase.  I know that when they do put in the 'prestige' style weapon leveling and we can add our own polarity it won't really matter, but it'd be nice to be able to reasonably choose to use it, but as it is right now it's not very good period and with the cost it's pretty much just absurd.

[theangelbelow88]

Yes, please boost range or reduce cost.

[Grilleds]

The dealbreaker in terms of if I'll ever use puncture mods. Make it let me headshot Grineer facing away from me whose heads I can't see. Otherwise I will never use one. 

[Denninja]

Agreed, it should puncture two enemies at max level, allowing for up to 3 different mobs to be hit, proper aim provided.

Not sure about terrain though, the only instances I see myself firing at an obstacle to hit a mob I know is behind it,

are those hallway wall protrusions which infantry like to use as cover.

Theoretically one could use either a high firing rate or shotgun to spray an area to find mobs by their damage numbers,

how much penetration is generally needed for that to work?

 

At their starting level, they still

...Might wanna rewrite that part. Where exactly was the mod before it reached starting level?

:'P

[Aeshi]

+1, Puncture needs improving and what you've suggested seems like a good way to do it.

[dEEkAy2k9]

pushing this issue =)

 

i like your (OP) idea about making it dependend on the damage.

[VKhaun]

Odd topic. I never saw these as being to shoot multiple enemies or shoot all the way through cover. The short range says, to me, that they're for shooting enemies behind only light cover. They work great in that role and I find it very often useful. I would think going through full thick cover looking straight on would be super OP.

 

Even lv1 of the rifle version will hit corpus crouched behind guard rails. I just reset so I don't remember the level it took, but I was using it to great effect vs grineer taking cover as well by shooting at the corner of boxes where they were leaning. It doesn't have to go through the whole width of the box, it just has to go through enough of the corner that you can center your crosshair on them so all the bullets hit just like if they were not behind cover.

 

Definitely worth it's cost just for that IMHO. Not having to move to shoot multiple targets behind cover = higher combat rate of fire and more options for positioning to give yourself cover.

 

 

 

 

Just my 2¢. If it was supposed to be for shooting into crowds / through enemies, then groovy. If it got a buff I would not lose anything. I could just leave it at a lower level and get the same effect as I used it for before.

Edited May 20, 2013 by VKhaun

[Vaskadar]

Odd topic. I never saw these as being to shoot multiple enemies or shoot all the way through cover. The short range says, to me, that they're for shooting enemies behind only light cover. They work great in that role and I find it very often useful. I would think going through full thick cover looking straight on would be super OP.

 

Even lv1 of the rifle version will hit corpus crouched behind guard rails. I just reset so I don't remember the level it took, but I was using it to great effect vs grineer taking cover as well by shooting at the corner of boxes where they were leaning. It doesn't have to go through the whole width of the box, it just has to go through enough of the corner that you can center your crosshair on them so all the bullets hit just like if they were not behind cover.

 

Definitely worth it's cost just for that IMHO. Not having to move to shoot multiple targets behind cover = higher combat rate of fire and more options for positioning to give yourself cover.

 

 

 

 

Just my 2¢. If it was supposed to be for shooting into crowds / through enemies, then groovy. If it got a buff I would not lose anything. I could just leave it at a lower level and get the same effect as I used it for before.

I hope they don't leave it in its current state. Puncture costs way too many mod slots to be worth using at the moment. Since you can't stack mods anymore, basing the multiplier on the original proposed formula would mean that slow-firing weapons could be used for crowd control, even if it's just when they're lined up. It would make sense NOT to bring it back up to pre U7 stats, but they are a mere 5% (or less) of what they used to be. You used to be able to use the Snipetron to line up shots and kill multiple enemies (which admittedly was a very nice feature), but shotguns were downright broken with the puncture mods, because you could endlessly spray through walls, doors, etc. with reckless abandon.

It just makes sense to use the proposed formula to provide for certain hard-hitting weapons (since it's calculated per instance of projectile) some semblance of puncture. Back before U7, though, I had a Boar with insane puncture mods, and could clear entire rooms in one magazine or less, because the degree of puncture was absurd. Cover penetration would be nice if it weren't so costly. I'd like for such a rare mod to be useful, but shooting through small, light cover is rather pointless in a game where you're highly mobile and acrobatic. It's not a cover-based shooter.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Tattutattikawa]

At their starting level, they still cannot puncture the Grineer Riot Shield, and they are still not viable. Puncture mods need to have their current max value tripled in order for them to be worth anything. 1.8 meters should be enough to get collateral kills on multiple enemies. As it stands right now, however, puncture is NOT worth the energy or the money invested in them.

 

15 mod energy max? For what? Puncturing one enemy? It should be able to punch through at least two.

 

Possible fix I came up with below:

 

Puncture on a damage-based system. If the damage of a Snipetron is 115, multiplying it by the suggested formula would give it reasonable puncture. 115 x 0.030 = 3.45 meters. This would justify the prohibitive cost of the puncture mod.

 

Formula: damage x 0.030 = puncture rating (when maxed out)

 

Scaling of puncture mods: 0.005/0.010/0.015/0.020/0.025/0.030 or something along those lines as far as a multiplier goes.

 

That way, shotguns don't get the ridiculous puncture they had before, and sniper weapons and other high damage single-shot weapons get the puncture they need. The maximum puncture a HEK pellet could achieve (when equipped with max damage/max puncture) would be 1.083

 

This would be the best possible fix I can come up with. Critical damage should not modify the damage, however, as that would be disgustingly broken, but it really depends on what they think of it.

 

Best idea I have yet to see so far regarding this topic "thumbs up"

[TheHeraldXII]

Odd topic. I never saw these as being to shoot multiple enemies or shoot all the way through cover. The short range says, to me, that they're for shooting enemies behind only light cover. They work great in that role and I find it very often useful. I would think going through full thick cover looking straight on would be super OP.

 

Even lv1 of the rifle version will hit corpus crouched behind guard rails. I just reset so I don't remember the level it took, but I was using it to great effect vs grineer taking cover as well by shooting at the corner of boxes where they were leaning. It doesn't have to go through the whole width of the box, it just has to go through enough of the corner that you can center your crosshair on them so all the bullets hit just like if they were not behind cover.

 

Definitely worth it's cost just for that IMHO. Not having to move to shoot multiple targets behind cover = higher combat rate of fire and more options for positioning to give yourself cover.

Yeah, this is what I got out of it too, it pierces light cover and grineer shields at level one (I only ever use it at level one, so I can 100% confirm this) but I'd say the issue is that there's not much reason to level it up and given the way that it works, there never will be a reason. There will always just be a sweet spot where it pierces everything you'd expect it to.

I think maybe it'd work better with a simple solution; make it a 4 rank mod, like warframe abilities, and then make it penetrate light cover and shields first rank, smaller enemies at second (sawmen/moas), medium enemies at third (infested+grineer mooks) and then at max rank it penetrates heavy units (grineer heavies and ancients).

This way we see the mod doing what people want it to do, there are no redundant ranks (right now I'm pretty sure only first rank and final rank have any distinction) and people still can't spray through walls.

Edited May 20, 2013 by TheHeraldXII

[VKhaun]

Yeah, this is what I got out of it too, it pierces light cover and grineer shields at level one (I only ever use it at level one, so I can 100% confirm this) but I'd say the issue is that there's not much reason to level it up and given the way that it works, there never will be a reason. There will always just be a sweet spot where it pierces everything you'd expect it to.

I think maybe it'd work better with a simple solution; make it a 4 rank mod, like warframe abilities, and then make it penetrate light cover and shields first rank, smaller enemies at second (sawmen/moas), medium enemies at third (infested+grineer mooks) and then at max rank it penetrates heavy units (grineer heavies and ancients).

This way we see the mod doing what people want it to do, there are no redundant ranks (right now I'm pretty sure only first rank and final rank have any distinction) and people still can't spray through walls.

 

I agree with this in the end really.

 

The community has such varied expectations from this mod, the devs need to either make it a three step mod with big differences and clear intent on what each step does, or make it a ten rank mod with a cheap base rank 0 cost so it can be fine tuned by the individual player from cheap and low penetration to expensive and noticeable.

[KuramaKitsune]

Ofc it is a waste, infested don't have shields and don't use covers and usually they surround you in circle (so they don't do the train of love :P).

 

 

yea but one would think that the infected, that do like to pile up on each other can be shot through,

id love to open up my braton on full auto and wipe out a writhing mass of evil flesh,

but only being able to nail the 10 chargers one at a time really blows,  they have ZERO armor on, 

its just mutated sickly flesh,

 

if my rifle round can penetrate the jiant metal looking body armor and kill a greneer,

you would just ASSUME it would pass happlessly Through a no armor dog thing into the next  

 

 

 

ps,  i think swapping the name  penetration and armor piercing  would be cool

 

when i got the armor pierce mod, my mind went straight to , 

aww sweet shooting through guys into other guys

 

but looking at it i say the good ole general + x dmg%....

Edited May 20, 2013 by KuramaKitsune

[dEEkAy2k9]

i've posted a suggestion on how to improve puncture mods some time ago, maybe you could back my case or suggest something better there so we have one suggestion thread concerning puncture mods

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43627-improving-puncture-mods/#entry430939

[DangerousMaster]

like the Idea

support +1

[Vaskadar]

Issue has not been addressed, nor has there been any communication about this issue.

[BloodEmperor]

yep puncture max => waste max

[Volt_Cruelerz]

How have I not seen this thread until now?!

 

/signed

[plznohurtme]

Issue hasn't been addressed, but the new polarity system may address it by itself (in that you might be able to eventually use puncture without ruining your dps), but it's still a mod that does need addressing.

[Vaskadar]

The campaign resumes! Puncture needs to be a multiplier, and not a flat value!

[Kyte]

I agree with this in the end really.

 

The community has such varied expectations from this mod, the devs need to either make it a three step mod with big differences and clear intent on what each step does, or make it a ten rank mod with a cheap base rank 0 cost so it can be fine tuned by the individual player from cheap and low penetration to expensive and noticeable.

 

Keep in mind a 3-rank mod is far, far cheaper to upgrade than a 10-rank mod.

[Vaskadar]

3-rank might be doable, but I much prefer the flat, balanced rate that I've proposed, but that's my personal bias speaking.

[Thlurp]

great idea, but it would fail on bow

 

bows shooting through a 3m wall, HA! :-p

[plznohurtme]

great idea, but it would fail on bow

 

bows shooting through a 3m wall, HA! :-p

Puncture never has worked with Bolt weapons, and there'd be no reason for it to start.

[Virilitas]

Not sure about your numbers.... but please fix the Puncture mods!

 

They used to be great with 3-5 meter numbers and I used them maybe half the time.

 

Now? Tried it once and never considered it again. Either reduce the energy cost so they can be used for shield/helmet piercing or up the distance to an actually useful level!!!

[Strac_CRO]

puncture mod has a lot's of potential but it's nerfed so much it's unusable