Light Cant Travel Through Walls But Energy Can

[audabon]

The Ogris had 520 ammo. Where's the logic in that? 

 

 

excessive no doubt, but the whole warrior gods thing the game purports makes the tenno sound so infinitely strong, right?  whats a few thousand grenades or and ICBM matter?  

[Slamyourjam]

Not really. I've never once seen a game where abilities could go through walls, unless that was their specific unique feature. I think that aspect as a whole needs to be looked at. Perhaps a penalty to damage/duration if an ability goes through a wall?

 

 

Blind shoots light from a sword. That part is space magic. The light then going through solid walls is the problem part.

 

Again though, does it really matter? We shouldn't be able to do things like that, any discussion of realism aside.

 

Well punch through makes it so that weapons can penetrate through walls without no damage penalty so why shouldn't abilities?

[Slamyourjam]

excessive no doubt, but the whole warrior gods thing the game purports makes the tenno sound so infinitely strong, right?  whats a few thousand grenades or and ICBM matter?  

 

I guess, still I can't ever imagine running out of ammo with a gun that has such good AOE and high damage. At least now it makes it so that ammo mutation mods will get more love.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Slamyourjam

[Metalarcher]

For some people, when a game is not believable or has unrealistic powers, they do not have "fun".  "Fun" is subjective.

For some people, there is a line of "believability" that cannot be crossed too often, less they lose the desire to play.

You seem to be projecting your opinion on others.  What you find as "fun" may not jive with others.

 

Perhaps, but if they wanted believability why did they not just go read a book or watch a movie, as those things are more intimately connected with explanation and justification?

 

In the end, you're playing a game.  And people don't play games for stories.  They might like the game's story, but that is independent of the game itself, and should never prohibit the game from being worse because "the story demands it."  An attempt should be made for both to exist in harmony.

[Gillityr]

Well punch through makes it so that weapons can penetrate through walls without no damage penalty so why shouldn't abilities?

 

Because there is no mod to apply to abilities allowing for punch-through :P

[sedu13]

I fail to see how calling other people's opinion "stupid and outlandish" is helping the discussion in any way.  Starting a flame war won't help anything.

It is a hypotetical opinion, and one that supposedly ignores how making and keeping constructs made of ice and water on a desert is fine but having light go through objects is not.

 

I apologize if it seems offensive, but it is indeed a ridiculous opinion.

[Zyion]

Blind shoots light from a sword. That part is space magic. The light then going through solid walls is the problem part.

 

Again though, does it really matter? We shouldn't be able to do things like that, any discussion of realism aside.

No, I get what you said about Blind possibly being a bit too powerful. What I don't get is how you can relate real world physics to anything that is created by space magic. If the light was created through space magic, then real world physics don't apply to that light cause it's magic.

[vaugahn]

Well punch through makes it so that weapons can penetrate through walls without no damage penalty so why shouldn't abilities?

 

Punch through is a mod. Maybe we should have a punch through mod for abilities?

 

Also, punch though only works through some stuff. You can't shoot through the wall of a tile and into a different one with it.

 

No, I get what you said about Blind possibly being a bit too powerful. What I don't get is how you can relate real world physics to anything that is created by space magic. If the light was created through space magic, then real world physics don't apply to that light cause it's magic.

 

Doesn't it say in the ability description that it releases a flash of blinding light? If it said it blinded enemies with void energy it would be a different story, but even then those max-range blinds would still be OP.

Edited September 11, 2014 by vaugahn

[Gillityr]

Perhaps, but if they wanted believability why did they not just go read a book or watch a movie, as those things are more intimately connected with explanation and justification?

 

In the end, you're playing a game.  And people don't play games for stories.  They might like the game's story, but that is independent of the game itself, and should never prohibit the game from being worse because "the story demands it."  An attempt should be made for both to exist in harmony.

 

The Mass Effect series was played by many, on easy settings just for the story.  Again, opinions.

[Slamyourjam]

Because there is no mod to apply to abilities allowing for punch-through :P

 

Fair point. Warframe abilities defy logic and realism most of the time so if a mod should allow penetration through walls then abilities should be able to as well.

[Slamyourjam]

Punch through is a mod. Maybe we should have a punch through mod for abilities?

 

Also, punch though only works through some stuff. You can't shoot through the wall of a tile and into a different one with it.

 

So what if its a mod? It still alters the way a gun works. If they are going to nerf abilities because they hit enemies that are on the other side of a door then they should give guns the same treatment and make it so that the punch through mods work for only enemies.

[Slamyourjam]

Perhaps, but if they wanted believability why did they not just go read a book or watch a movie, as those things are more intimately connected with explanation and justification?

 

In the end, you're playing a game.  And people don't play games for stories.  They might like the game's story, but that is independent of the game itself, and should never prohibit the game from being worse because "the story demands it."  An attempt should be made for both to exist in harmony.

 

People don't play games for stories? What magic hat did you pull that rabbit out from? There's tons of people that play games for the story. I'm one of them. Don't start making assumptions.

[vaugahn]

So what if its a mod? It still alters the way a gun works. If they are going to nerf abilities because they hit enemies that are on the other side of a door then they should give guns the same treatment and make it so that the punch through mods work for only enemies.

 

Read that last part. RB was a perfect radius. Nothing could block it. If they gave it the same mechanic as full punch through it wouldn't be able to hit enemies two tiles away, because no amount of punch through can send something through a tile wall.

[Metalarcher]

People don't play games for stories? What magic hat did you pull that rabbit out from? There's tons of people that play games for the story. I'm one of them. Don't start making assumptions.

 

I never said that.  I said people who play games can like stories, but the story in and of itself is not the game.  Warframe is a game, and therefore story should not interfere with the game, and to a large extent the game should not interfere with the story.  You will have to cut corners in places because if we knew to the extent that some people would like how Rhino, or Saryn, or Vauban do the things they do, we would actually have them in reality.  And we don't, obviously.  So at some point, the story just has to state that "Vauban can do the things he can do because of magic" or something equivalent to magic.  Something we can't understand.  And that's fine.  But that covers practically everything, so in that sense the gameplay is malleable with regards to the story because in any situation you can say "magic" and be done with it, since that's what it comes down to in the end anyway.

[Zyion]

Doesn't it say in the ability description that it releases a flash of blinding light? If it said it blinded enemies with void energy it would be a different story, but even then those max-range blinds would still be OP.

 

I don't think you understand what I was getting at. If a Warframe ability can use its space magic to create light. Then it isn't too hard deduce that an ability can create magical light. Is it really too absurd to assume that magical light can go through walls when it follows no laws of physics?

[vaugahn]

I don't think you understand what I was getting at. If a Warframe ability can use its space magic to create light. Then it isn't too hard deduce that an ability can create magical light. Is it really too absurd to assume that magical light can go through walls when it follows no laws of physics?

Okay, I'll concede that point.

That doesn't make it any less overpowered from a gameplay perspective though.

[vimviva]

Maybe within one room, and even then that's dependent on the room's structure, but there's no excuse for light to be somehow getting through a closed door and into a different tile.

 

 

 

You completely missed the point. If the game says magic can tear weapons out of the hands of enemies, that's fine. I believe magic could do that. Forced telekinesis, or heating up the metal parts and making them drop the guns, or focused teleportation, or a psychic compulsion. It's not unreasonable to think that by using space magic radial disarm is possible. That skill is unrealistic, but believable.

 

Light cannot travel through solid objects. That's not how reality works. Unless warframe is set in a different universe and solid objects aren't actually solid, then light should not be able to go through a wall. 

thts why i said, DE can change the light base to energy base that can pass through walls. problem solved. instead of making the lowest frame to the humiliated state.

[vimviva]

Maybe within one room, and even then that's dependent on the room's structure, but there's no excuse for light to be somehow getting through a closed door and into a different tile.

 

 

 

You completely missed the point. If the game says magic can tear weapons out of the hands of enemies, that's fine. I believe magic could do that. Forced telekinesis, or heating up the metal parts and making them drop the guns, or focused teleportation, or a psychic compulsion. It's not unreasonable to think that by using space magic radial disarm is possible. That skill is unrealistic, but believable.

 

Light cannot travel through solid objects. That's not how reality works. Unless warframe is set in a different universe and solid objects aren't actually solid, then light should not be able to go through a wall. 

to all the people saying the change to blind had to happen because light cant travel through walls.....

 

instead of nerfing Excaliburs only good ability, just change the description to "sends out a wave of energy."  just like plenty of other frames with abilities that travel through the entire map and affect enemies. (i copy paste this, it makes my point)

[audabon]

 

to all the people saying the change to blind had to happen because light cant travel through walls.....

 

instead of nerfing Excaliburs only good ability, just change the description to "sends out a wave of energy."  just like plenty of other frames with abilities that travel through the entire map and affect enemies. (i copy paste this, it makes my point)

 

thats the entire point of my thread, yes.

 

some people believe that the mechanic of blind though renders the game to a facerollers dream, which isnt true.  

 

blind WAS simply a great cc that facilitated certain aspects of gameplay.  it wasnt the be all end all cc.  it wasnt awesome in all mission types, but was at least good in all missions.  it made melee fun in high level gameplay for myself and alot of other people it seems.

[Dwarfstar]

This ability did not need a nerf, and the reasoning on it is puzzling.

 

Blinding stuff through walls it somehow more OP than just... melting them through walls? Please see the following abilities:

 

Ember - World On Fire

Saryn - Miasma

Frost- Avalanche

Banshee - Soundquake

Mag - Crush

Nova - Molecular Prime ( doesn't kill them but can affect enemies through walls, causing out-of-los chain reactions )

Oberon - Reckoning

Rhino - Rhino Stomp

Volt - Overload

 

These are all 4 abilities- so clearly you should just make prenerf blind Excal's 4 and put Javelin on 2. Javelin is nowhere near a 4 ability anyway.

[audabon]

This ability did not need a nerf, and the reasoning on it is puzzling.

 

Blinding stuff through walls it somehow more OP than just... melting them through walls? Please see the following abilities:

 

Ember - World On Fire

Saryn - Miasma

Frost- Avalanche

Banshee - Soundquake

Mag - Crush

Nova - Molecular Prime ( doesn't kill them but can affect enemies through walls, causing out-of-los chain reactions )

Oberon - Reckoning

Rhino - Rhino Stomp

Volt - Overload

 

These are all 4 abilities- so clearly you should just make prenerf blind Excal's 4 and put Javelin on 2. Javelin is nowhere near a 4 ability anyway.

dont forget radial disarm!!

 

best idea out there is that radial blind should also be a 3 or 4 ability, should be left as is mechanics-wise but cost 75-100 energy.  totally appropriate.

[audabon]

hot-revert just went through....  heres to hope for the future of Ex!!!!

[Slamyourjam]

I never said that.  I said people who play games can like stories, but the story in and of itself is not the game.  Warframe is a game, and therefore story should not interfere with the game, and to a large extent the game should not interfere with the story.  You will have to cut corners in places because if we knew to the extent that some people would like how Rhino, or Saryn, or Vauban do the things they do, we would actually have them in reality.  And we don't, obviously.  So at some point, the story just has to state that "Vauban can do the things he can do because of magic" or something equivalent to magic.  Something we can't understand.  And that's fine.  But that covers practically everything, so in that sense the gameplay is malleable with regards to the story because in any situation you can say "magic" and be done with it, since that's what it comes down to in the end anyway.

 

Uh, yes you did say that... "people don't play games for stories" please don't deny something and try to make other look like idiots. The story and game should go hand in hand, I've never once seen a game that has been ruined because the story got in the way of its gameplay, Last of Us is a great example of a game that manages to achieve both well. I don't understand what you're trying to explain to me here, just because we don't have actual warframes in real life doesn't mean that there can't be a valid explanation as to why something would not work or would work the way it does. For example the developers could say that "Hydroid" brings forth those tentacles by creating small portals or something those lines, lore can if well implemented go with a game. 

[Slamyourjam]

Read that last part. RB was a perfect radius. Nothing could block it. If they gave it the same mechanic as full punch through it wouldn't be able to hit enemies two tiles away, because no amount of punch through can send something through a tile wall.

 

The radius is slightly ridiculous yes but let's say it is possible and I'm not sure it is to put punch through on a weapon with a good spread like Ignis for example and put punch-through or even if it could effect explosive weapons like ogris, then it would be more comparable.

[Azawarau]

Or buff everything else so hes not a one trick pony?