A Suggestion For Grappling For Warframes.

[Evil_Brick]

I've come up with an idea, and i'm curious to see what other people think:

 

Picture this... What if you had a new ability, if you knock down a humanoid enemy in any way, you could tap the 'use' button to pick them up as a human shield. Imagine them struggling to escape, draining your stamina, enemies shooting you would damage the hostage until the point they die and you lose your meat-shield. While holding them you would have the choice to use a Finisher attack upon them, for the same damage as if you used a melee strike on a prone target.

 

Would this be too good? Would it be pointless? Would it be interesting and maybe useful?

Edited September 18, 2014 by Evil_Brick

[Spobbles]

Using a Napalm as a human shield would be interesting....

[Psychotoxin]

1. Knock down a Shield Lancer

2. Grapple and use him as human shield with a shield

3. Repeat

4. Profit.

5. ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1 to OP. Idea is good.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Psychotoxin

[Vastaren]

It'll be interesting to consider how stamina drain scales with frame physique. Imagine Mag trying to hold back a Rhino-equivalent Bombard.

 

It sounds a bit like the much-debated hypothetical cover system, though I'd imagine this would be more engaging and thematically appropriate. DE decided not to go with a cover system mainly because it would slow down the pace of combat, and I think that would be the limiting factor for this idea as well. Just like how the stealth-kill mechanic is frequently overlooked because of a preference for easier, but no less tangibly rewarding 'spray-and-pray' style, I think if this were to be implemented, I wouldn't really expect to see many use it.

 

Until Warframe's combat and mission design diversifies to more than just an objective-oriented rush, I don't think this can be made relevant to gameplay as it is. Doesn't stop it from being a really neat idea though, I just wouldn't consider it a priority until such developments occur that mean this could be a thing that fits in.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Vastaren

[Mesyra]

+1 I wanna grab a shield lancer :3 or a heavy gunner.

[Evil_Brick]

It'll be interesting to consider how stamina drain scales with frame physique. Imagine Mag trying to hold back a Rhino-equivalent Bombard.

 

It sounds a bit like the much-debated hypothetical cover system, though I'd imagine this would be more engaging and thematically appropriate. DE decided not to go with a cover system mainly because it would slow down the pace of combat, and I think that would be the limiting factor for this idea as well. Just like how the stealth-kill mechanic is frequently overlooked because of a preference for easier, but no less tangibly rewarding 'spray-and-pray' style, I think if this were to be implemented, I wouldn't really expect to see many use it.

 

Until Warframe's combat and mission design diversifies to more than just an objective-oriented rush, I don't think this can be made relevant to gameplay as it is. Doesn't stop it from being a really neat idea though, I just wouldn't consider it a priority until such developments occur that mean this could be a thing that fits in.

 

You bring me food for thought, i appreciate it.

 

Considering Warframe physique, they all seem about similar in offensive strength do they not? After all, a Mag can heft a Galatine, Scindo or Gorgon just as well as Rhino can. I see what you're going for, but placing an arbitrary value on frame grapple strength based upon aesthetical values such as physical build doesn't seem fair. Perhaps a value that relates to the armor value of the frame? That seems to be related to the "strength" of a frame. After all, i doubt anyone would find it weird if our Valkyr could grip and hold a writhing Grineer for an extended period of time.

 

I also at least think i see what you mean with the cover system, and the flow of the game. But think of it this way: Many players duck in behind cover(without a 'system' for cover) to recover shields and such, yes? But a mechanic for 'sticking' to cover like cover-based shooters would bog down the game too much...

 

Well, as you mentioned, it'd be thematically fitting, but you worry it'd bog it down similarly to how a mechanic for cover would, right? Consider this: Capturing an enemy as temporary cover means that you are just shielding yourself from damage while still putting yourself in a mobile and defensive position, and it is just temporary as compared to say... a Container or a Wall. I believe that since it'd retain your mobility, but still give you a breather, and demand from the player to knock an enemy down, then only to give them an ability to properly fight back for as long as the meat-shield lasts, it wouldn't bog things down too much.

 

Now of course, this'd probably be difficult to implement, and as you mentioned it'd probably be overlooked by many players because of complexity, but i think it'd be rewarding for those who bother to do it. Maybe... Then of course there'd be the troubles with model size differences and such. Like how Kubrows grow and shrink when grappling different enemies and such.

 

Edit: Naturally your grappled enemy would retain their health upon grab, and would become useless as your living shield when taking enough damage to die. I imagine you would be slowed while grappling, disallowing certain more acrobatic movements such as wall running or dive-kicking and possibly sprinting. What do you people think would be reasonable?

Edited September 18, 2014 by Evil_Brick

[WizardOfOruz]

You bring me food for thought, i appreciate it.

 

Considering Warframe physique, they all seem about similar in offensive strength do they not? After all, a Mag can heft a Galatine, Scindo or Gorgon just as well as Rhino can. I see what you're going for, but placing an arbitrary value on frame grapple strength based upon aesthetical values such as physical build doesn't seem fair. Perhaps a value that relates to the armor value of the frame? That seems to be related to the "strength" of a frame. After all, i doubt anyone would find it weird if our Valkyr could grip and hold a writhing Grineer for an extended period of time.

 

I also at least think i see what you mean with the cover system, and the flow of the game. But think of it this way: Many players duck in behind cover(without a 'system' for cover) to recover shields and such, yes? But a mechanic for 'sticking' to cover like cover-based shooters would bog down the game too much...

 

Well, as you mentioned, it'd be thematically fitting, but you worry it'd bog it down similarly to how a mechanic for cover would, right? Consider this: Capturing an enemy as temporary cover means that you are just shielding yourself from damage while still putting yourself in a mobile and defensive position, and it is just temporary as compared to say... a Container or a Wall. I believe that since it'd retain your mobility, but still give you a breather, and demand from the player to knock an enemy down, then only to give them an ability to properly fight back for as long as the meat-shield lasts, it wouldn't bog things down too much.

 

Now of course, this'd probably be difficult to implement, and as you mentioned it'd probably be overlooked by many players because of complexity, but i think it'd be rewarding for those who bother to do it. Maybe... Then of course there'd be the troubles with model size differences and such. Like how Kubrows grow and shrink when grappling different enemies and such.

 

Edit: Naturally your grappled enemy would retain their health upon grab, and would become useless as your living shield when taking enough damage to die. I imagine you would be slowed while grappling, disallowing certain more acrobatic movements such as wall running or dive-kicking and possibly sprinting. What do you people think would be reasonable?

I enjoy this idea, and would like to see it in game but there's one idea I have. You see, you're talking about handicapping the Tenno when they pick up an enemy, but as you can see when you play the game, not all enemies are the same size/have the same size guns. I suggest that for the Grineer and the Corpus medium. (With Corpus, everything save for the Techs, I'd call medium. With Grineer, everything save for the heavy gunners, napalms and bombards, are medium.)

 

With medium I suggest that you can sprint at a slower speed than normal but obviously faster than walking. You slide slower too and can't do the melee slide and frontflips. You can wallrun, but you can't backflip and it's slow/not as high/not as long. Your jump is limited, but you can still super jump as normal, and everything else is the same. Sure, you would be able to move well with a medium, but you'd only gain the full protection while walking with them held firmly in front of yourself.

 

With heavy, you can't sprint, wallrun, slide or anything. You are at a slow amble, with maybe a small jump.

Edited September 18, 2014 by OfficialBronyTime

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

+1

Note to DE: Fix the inevitable bug which allows you to grapple bosses.

[Vastaren]

- snip -

Oh definitely, grappling is a great idea, and I hadn't actually considered armor, so +1 to that, for an idea that could potentially turn it from an underdeveloped attribute to something relevant to all frames instead of just Valkyr.

 

I can support this idea more if, as you suggest, the system allowed for a certain degree of mobility. Being able to walk, jump, fire and duck without being able to wallrun or execute abilities sound like reasonable limits in any other context, and I'd certainly have fun with it. For the majority, it'll still be a bit like the stealth-kill mechanic (neat, rewarding, and exciting, but ultimately niche), but I can definitely see how this would work, and would really want to try it out just for the sake of the experience :)

 

Until Warframe changes to better support anything other than an objective-based rush, I don't know how much use it'll get, but that's never been a major concern, and I can definitely see it adding a layer of challenge and complexity for more advanced players to use. I wouldn't be averse to this being a thing, with its own in-mission bonus challenge and achievement.

[unknow99]

I sooo much want this. +1.

 

Just imagine the effectiveness for stealth runs! You grab someone, and pull him until you both are out of sight, then you stealth kill him without having to worry about someone seeing the well hidden body... :3

 

It would also serve Melee 2.0 : you decide to attack a group of enemies across the room. You grab the 1st one, run to the others while they're shooting at you, you do a sort of execution to your human shield or even throw your hostage at them!