Boltor Prime: Killing The Game?

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

If you had any idea of the history of Warframe you would know that DE would NEVER sell off Warframe like they did to DarkSector (Their previous game).

They were not allowed to disclose anything for 40 days after the deal was announced, that time is up.

 

I know their history. But it's not DE's history. It's mainly Steve's history, really. And in my life, I've seen so many people say that just to do the opposite, it's not even funny. The problem is, Steve doesn't own the company, the higher ups who just look at financial statements and know absolutely nothing about what the company is actually doing are the people who have the power.

[_Fracture8]

Fair point about the 40 days. But saying nothing doesn't neccessarily mean they're doing bad business behind our backs.

 

I think this debate has gone on long enough. Can we just go back to the topic now?

Edited September 23, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[Xana_Skullsunder]

@the people bickering above

 

 

Is the Boltor Prime killing the game? Yes.

 

Should we care? No.

 

Let the new players leave the game after buying the Boltor Prime, they don't affect your gameplay at all. Warframe was supposed to be a 10 hour game anyway. They've had their 10 hours, why do you care if they leave the game? And DE? Well, they're going to be screwed anyway with the PWE deal, we're probably never going to see Update 16. Just enjoy the game while it lasts and move on.

 

This is dumb. Very dumb. Go away, we don't need your doom and gloom attitude.

 

To be more on topic, I do hope they raise the MR req already, let players experience the less impressive but more varied guns first.

Edited September 23, 2014 by XanaSkullpulper

[Arabaxus]

This is dumb. Very dumb. Go away, we don't need your doom and gloom attitude.

 

To be more on topic, I do hope they raise the MR req already, let players experience the less impressive but more varied guns first.

 

Not just Boltor Prime but all the prime weapons please.

[WhisperByte]

Not just Boltor Prime but all the prime weapons please.

Braton Prime for example is barely better than a regular Braton. I don't think there's even a need to waste minutes to change it to MR2 (what it's worth imho) as that would make almost no difference

So not ALL primes need a MR raise

[Deccode]

I do hope they raise the MR req already, let players experience the less impressive but more varied guns first.

People care about other players so much in this tread. Got tears in my eyes.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Deccode

[Mokkania]

 

It's sort of readable here as an economic concept. And the market is essentially a macrocosm for the human mind, as it is the masses that influence the market. 

"Relative Value."  

"In Reality it is that most assets are valued on a relative basis. We look at how the market prices similar items... judged by a standardized variable."

 

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/littlebook/intrinsicvsrelative.htm

Just scroll down to the relative value part. 

Except we'd look at items at similar times of obtainability, as similar items. General power, as our standardized variables. Level of general desire is our 'price' that is influenced the general desire of other comparable items. The five bucks it costs to get the Boltor Prime should factor in here as part of the standardized variables, but I'm not sure it seems to have a significant effect or that its penalty compared to the general power is so small it just doesn't show up. It can be included, but it doesn't change what we're seeing in reality.  

Boltor Primes higher general power compared to other weapons, has created such a strong general level of desire, that it influences other weapons to be less desirable. If I understand the theory correctly, I'm not an economics student. 

 

no the point of relative value is not debatable, but the global effect on players leaving thanks to getting boltor prime is exaggerated IMO

[(PSN)PoeticProdigal]

Poor Boltor Prime. He ain't getting no love here.

+1 to an amazing weapon! Remember little BP, there wouldn't be so many haters and numbers-runners if you weren't the best! Ramble on my friend!

(I do agree with raising MR requirement tho)

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)PoeticProdigal

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

I did not say warframe is pay to win dude you are consuming drugs now for real? I just said that in most p2w games you can unlock everything on the beginning and I'm misconstruing things. And that is not a reason it's a claim. The reason behind your claim was "because it kills the fun" and "because it's not balanced". I agree with your 2nd part but first one is funny dont you agree?

Hold on now, I want you to go back and quote me on the part where I:

A) Supposedly said that Boltor Prime "kills the fun" in this game, or that it's unbalanced.

B) Accused you of saying that Warframe was P2W. 

A) I've stated some opinions and personal experiences with Boltor Prime but never pretended those were contributing reasons towards my argument. You need to learn the difference.

B) I simply said that Warframe isn't P2W, and gave a reason why. Not the same thing.

Quit paraphrasing me just to victimize yourself.

 

As a matter of fact I've said nothing to put down the Boltor Prime save for it needing an MR and that a lot of people use it (which isn't inherently a bad thing). I seriously feel like you have me confused with someone else. If so, misplace your snide passive-aggression elsewhere.

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Deccode]

Hold on now, I want you to go back and quote me on the part where I:

A) Supposedly said that Boltor Prime "kills the fun" in this game, or that it's unbalanced.

B) Accused you of saying that Warframe was P2W. 

A) I've stated some opinions and personal experiences with Boltor Prime but never pretended those were contributing reasons towards my argument. You need to learn the difference.

B) I simply said that Warframe isn't P2W, and gave a reason why. Not the same thing.

Quit paraphrasing me just to victimize yourself.

Oh I must be blind then. I guess you complaining about people gettign the boltor prime to early because they wont experience other weapons or because it's to strong has nothing to do with your complain that it needs a higher mastery rating? Then what were you trying to use as your reason over the past xx pages as of why the boltor prime needs a higher mastery rating?

Edited September 23, 2014 by Deccode

[LukeAura]

no the point of relative value is not debatable, but the global effect on players leaving thanks to getting boltor prime is exaggerated IMO

Damage to the game is damage, whether they outright leave or not it will still hurt their enjoyment of the game. 

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

"Too early" Yep. Strong weapons should be reserved for more experienced players. I'm not ashamed of that and I've said it before verbatim. I don't care if a new player wants to go out and get the strongest gun available to him at the earliest stages of the game, I just don't think Primes should be in their reach yet. Certainly not arguably the strongest gun in the game.

"Too strong" Nope, try again. Haven't called for nerfs, just a legitimate MR for ALL PRIMES. I.e. Boar prime, Reaper Prime, etc. having a higher MR than 2.

 

If you're happy with the fact that an MR0 can go out and get a Boltor Prime, Latron Prime, Braton Prime, etc. then all this boils down to is a simple difference in opinion, and we can call it a day. Don't know why you've pegged me as some kind of "adversary", if you go back a few pages you'll see I've been on your side since the beginning. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

Poor Boltor Prime. He ain't getting no love here.

+1 to an amazing weapon! Remember little BP, there wouldn't be so many haters and numbers-runners if you weren't the best! Ramble on my friend!

(I do agree with raising MR requirement tho)

Good, then you're here for the right reasons.

[Deccode]

"Too early" Yep. Strong weapons should be reserved for more experienced players. I'm not ashamed of that and I've said it before verbatim. I don't care if a new player wants to go out and get the strongest gun available to him at the earliest stages of the game, I just don't think Primes should be in their reach yet. Certainly not arguably the strongest gun in the game.

"Too strong" Nope, try again. Haven't called for nerfs, just a legitimate MR for ALL PRIMES. I.e. Boar prime, Reaper Prime, etc. having a higher MR than 2.

 

If you're happy with the fact that an MR0 can go out and get a Boltor Prime, Latron Prime, Braton Prime, etc. then all this boils down to is a simple difference in opinion, and we can call it a day. Don't know why you've pegged me as some kind of "adversary", if you go back a few pages you'll see I've been on your side since the beginning. 

Ok let's see so far:

You are suggesting a higher mastery rating for the boltor prime, because it is strong (not to strong :D) in the hands of a new guy. Then you claim that's not the reason why the mastery rating should be higher. Then I tell you that's your way of thinking and that there might are people who like having a strong gun (not to strong!) at early levels. Then you are telling me that you are not forcing your way of playing the game to other people. I'm stunned.

[Gillityr]

instead of nerfing the Bolter Prime, I would prefer we simply buff *slightly* any weapons that are under-performing according to their difficulty of access.

 

Apply buffs *slowly* to those on the absolute bottom and those who's MR/performance gap is widest.  Eventually, we end up with a wide variety of OPTIONS instead of "BP + RP or GTFO" nonsense we have right now.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

Ok let's see so far:

You are suggesting a higher mastery rating for the boltor prime, because it is strong (not to strong :D) in the hands of a new guy. Then you claim that's not the reason why the mastery rating should be higher. Then I tell you that's your way of thinking and that there might are people who like having a strong gun (not to strong!) at early levels. Then you are telling me that you are not forcing your way of playing the game to other people. I'm stunned.

Paraphrase me some more, you're so good at it. Clearly my views, which I have repeatedly and explicitly stated, are beyond your grasp of conscious understanding. I'm not repeating myself anymore for you. You are a waste of my time.

 

We disagree, move on with your life and stop trying to goad/patronize me. You make yourself out to be more of a fool than you realize.

 

You might actually be the most dense and smarmy person I've ever had the misfortune of encountering, and that's not even hyperbole.

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Deccode]

Paraphrase me some more, you're so good at it.

We disagree, move on with your life and stop trying to goad/patronize me. You make yourself out to be more of a fool than you realize.

You are right. I was arguing with a person who had no idea what he was talking about lol.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

You are right. I was arguing with a person who had no idea what he was talking about lol.

If that was meant to be said from my point of view, you're absolutely right. Otherwise, you are delusional.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

I seriously don't understand it either. New gamers are so obsessed with power above fun. Being overpowered is fun for a limited amount of time, that's the reason you can only use cheat codes temporarily in many games. If you could just put in cheat codes and beat the game it would take all the fun out of it. To me, challenge is more fun than having a bullet hose that kills enemies in two hits. Granted, using underpowered weapons isn't much fun, but at least you can say you've accomplished something when you complete a tough mission with underpowered (or even balanced) gear.

Maybe ^this^ is what you are referencing for the basis of your argument, and I want to reiterate that these are my personal views and they do not factor into my decision making process as for the raising of MR requirement for prime weapons. Personal views =/= supporting reasons.

 

LEARN. THE. DIFFERENCE.

 

It's like saying "that guy is biased because he stated his opinion instead of just facts. He's an exaggeratory liar and his credibility is null because he's trying to force his personal ideals on the game! lel"

 

/troll

 

To a certain degree, yeah. You're right. That "personal ideal" I'm "forcing" on the game is that power should be gained gradually, and that primes should have a higher MR than 0 or 2 (which we have AGREED on several times). I do not get what your issue is.

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Deccode]

That "personal ideal" I'm "forcing" on the game is that power should be gained gradually, and that primes should have a higher MR than 0 or 2 (which we have AGREED on several times).

I didn't agree on that. So you are saying that new guys shouldn't have strong weapons on early levels, because new guys shouldn't have strong weapons on early level. I can't find any other proper reason you would use as an excuse as of why boltor prime needs a higher mastery rating in this thread, because everything else you said is "just a personal view" lol.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Deccode

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

I didn't agree on that. So you are saying that new guys shouldn't have strong weapons on early levels, because new guys shouldn't have strong weapons on early level. I can't find any other proper reason you would use as an excuse as of why boltor prime needs a higher mastery rating in this thread, because everything else you said is "just a personal view" lol.

New players shouldn't have access to the more powerful weaponry because it makes sense. Once again, I want you to name some non-P2W games where you can get the most powerful weapons in the game right after you complete the tutorial. 

 

And oh, that's right, I forget you're one of the ones who wants to do away with mastery ranks altogether so everyone has access to everything save for resource requirements right out of the gate. How quaint.

 

We disagree. We both get that. But you can't just let that disagreement go. You've gotta keep questioning my reasons, prodding me like I have no foundation, when I do. In practically every game with an arsenal of weaponry, you start off with weak weapons gear and gradually ascend to the god tier weapons and gear. You don't just do a google search, find out where you can get the most powerful gun in the game, and then get it, never touching anything else. If you can do that in other games (which may be true) that is an awful mechanic as it subverts all moderate challenge for the rest of the game. I get that not everyone likes challenge, but some moderately standardized challenge is always meant to exist. The fact that Warframe has a very easily exploited way to subvert that is not a "good" thing. Not to me at least. Maybe it is to you.

 

And that brings me to the underlying point.

 

We will not see eye to eye here, there is no point in pursuing this further. I'm a conservative, you're a liberal (not literally of course, I'm very liberal in my real world views) All we can do is nitpick the points the other one is making in an effort to make the fundamentals of their argument as weak as possible. Notice that I haven't bothered with that, save for my previous post, I just understand that people have different perspectives and accept it. You're the one holding on to this idea that you can break my viewpoint by making me into a straw man.

 

Well Deccode, in the interest of both of us; I'll be your straw man no longer.

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Deccode]

 

New players shouldn't have access to the more powerful weaponry because it makes sense. Once again, I want you to name some non-P2W games where you can get the most powerful weapons in the game right after you complete the tutorial. 

League of Legends, Counter Strike,

 

And oh, that's right, I forget you're one of the ones who wants to do away with mastery ranks altogether so everyone has access to everything save for resource requirements right out of the gate. How quaint.

I'm the one who wants it to have a rework.

In practically every game with an arsenal of weaponry, you start off with weak weapons gear and gradually ascend to the god tier weapons and gear. ...If you can do that in other games (which may be true) that is an awful mechanic as it subverts all moderate challenge for the rest of the game.

League of Legends is such a bad game. (I probably have to mention that this is sarcasm)

And that brings me to the underlying point.

 

We will not see eye to eye here, there is no point in pursuing this further.

Exactly, people have difference perspectives and you are nobody to force what you think is right into everybody else.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

 

 

League of Legends, Counter Strike,

 

I'm the one who wants it to have a rework.

League of Legends is such a bad game. (I probably have to mention that this is sarcasm)

Exactly, people have difference perspectives and you are nobody to force what you think is right into everybody else.

 

Thank you for understanding why we will not be speaking to each other further.

 

Though, I want you to ask the other people who are advocating an MR increase in this thread why they think it should be increased. See what their answers are. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Deccode]

Thank you for understanding why we will not be speaking to each other further.

Unlike you, I'm not telling people to not increase the mastery rating on the boltor prime because for ME I had great time at early levels owning everything with a great gun which everybody in this thread is going bullcrap about it. If you don't have the mods it wont be as strong as everybody claims. You were the one telling what should be done about the boltor prime, because you were the one talking for everybody (at least in the early pages of this topic) then later said "to each its own", but still wanting it to change its mastery rating. And then later on claiming that this was not the reason why you wanted higher mastery rank. It doesn't make sense to make a portion of the community mad because they like having the boltor prime at early levels just so you can satisfy the other half of the community.

[Archistopheles]

New players shouldn't have access to the more powerful weaponry because it makes sense. Once again, I want you to name some non-P2W games where you can get the most powerful weapons in the game right after you complete the tutorial.

Let's get one thing straight for the sake of argument:

A "New Player" must be MR2 to trade. That's hardly "right after you complete the tutorial." A new player also needs 10 orokin cells, which IIRC, is Saturn, or 100plat on the market.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Archistopheles