Actual Solutions To The Rushing/quitting Problem. Also, Stop Crying Over Pug Games.

[Madotsuki]

Alright guys, we've had several dozen rusher/quitter whine-fests on these forums already. Most of these come from players who had experience being screwed over by rushers/quitters, and are thus possibly biased. As such, here is MY input, as an exclusively solo player, on how I think can solve this problem while keeping both sides happy.

 

But before that, could everyone please put down their pitchfork and torches and think a little?

 

 

First off, please be reminded that it's a public game. PUBLIC. As in anyone can join and are free to play however they want. If you're so obsessed with complete exploration every single mission, go join a clan and play Private (or Solo if you've got the skills/gear to), play with those who match your playstyle. Otherwise, you are bound to find those who do not match your playstyle or pace. This is not a surprise.

 

Also, ever considered why people rush/quit? For rushing, some like the exhilaration of charging through everything. Some only want to clear the mission and unlock the next, for Alerts, the boss, who knows. For quitting, some might have IRL reasons and need to leave fast. Sometimes errors occur forcing a quit. But for both, most however do it because it is the endgame. Currently, farming is the endgame of Warframe. Farm credits, farm BPs, farm resources. Farming is best done with efficiency. Rushing is the most efficient method of farming credits (mission reward), while quitting is best for BPs and rare resources. Hopefully, the devs will soon make a better endgame, but until then, you simply cannot blame people for wanting to be efficient! Not everyone has the time to poke through every nook and cranny, or finish a long mission for insufficient rewards.

 

Does this mean nothing should be done to improve the situation? Of course not! But please, be rational! I've seen people advocating removal of a percentage or even ALL earnings of the mission from rushers/quitters, or complete removal of the countdown timer, or even relating loot drop rate with quit rate with a straight face! Punishing players for not playing your way in a Public game is NOT the way to go! Putting too many restrictions in a game simply makes it feel like a prison!

 

"So, smartass, what do YOU propose?" These are my suggestions:

 

Rushers:

 

1. Simply allow them the option to extract early (with 100% loot, maybe a slight reduction in the completion award). They're just sitting there waiting and not contributing anyway, may as well let them have their efficiency, as long as they aren't allowed to re-join the same instance again to prevent exploiting.

 

2. Give everyone in the instance the credit reward upon timer finishing its count down. That way you are not punished for being too slow. Of course, AFKers need to be dealt with, as I will explain later below.

 

Quitters:

 

The majority of the complaining is about the host leaving after a boss, resulting in host migration which deletes loot. Come on, he's the HOST of the server, he should be able to do what he wants. Yes, host migration deleting drops is infuriating, i get that, but why always resort to punishing players by wasting their time and effort spent? Suggestions:

 

1. Reformat boss levels so that bosses will be in the later half of the level. Right now, it takes extremely little time to get TO a boss, but it takes relatively A LOT MORE time to get to the extraction afterwards! This is a major reason people quit for efficiency! Simply have the road to the boss take up 2/3 of the level, and the road to extraction afterwards take up 1/3 (same total mission length, duh). This also makes bosses feel more like the climax of the mission. Everyone's happy!

 

2. Create a lobby screen system that allows players to choose which instance of a mission they want to join, showing the server host, server name (named by host), ping etc. That way, if a host repeatedly efficient-quits after a boss, you remember them and don't join their games! Or the host can specifically say "Rushing/Exploring" in the name of the server. Plus, a lobby screen system also leads to many other conveniences (PING). Problem solved!

 

Aside from the above 2 alternatives, just add in a vote-to-kick option. Only initiatable by the host, requires everyone but the kickee to vote yes. This gets rid of AFKs, trolls etc. Kicked players don't get the mission reward, but keeps anything they picked up up to that point, to prevent a group of trolls from kicking you right at the very end and wasting your entire mission time.

 

Oh and one more thing...Please increase rewards for tougher missions. When a Pluto mission has 1k reward, and Vor has a guaranteed 3.5k, it's no wonder people farm him so much. The game does not motivate challenge. Tougher planets need better rewards to compensate, not just the mission reward but also from lockers/enemies to motivate non-rushing positively. For example, in terms of mission rewards, 1k for Mercury, 1.5k for Venus/Saturn, 2k for Uranus/Mars/Jupiter, 2.5k for Earth/Neptune, 2.75k for Sedna/Europa, 3k for Ceres/Eris, 3.5k for Pluto. Don't nerf BP selling price, buff rewards for challenging missions. With the new mod 2.0 credit sink, surely this isn't too much to ask for?

 

Don't just think about yourself, think about others too. Don't punish those who play easy content, reward those who play harder content. As I've said, I have no stake in the matter of rushing, I solo exclusively anyway. This is just my honest opinion on the matter. Feel free to discuss your opinion, and I hope the devs will give this a read.

 

Signed, Madotsuki. I'm going back to bed.

[Probta16]

Everything you purposed was already said before.

[cruceo]

Good ideas. It is nice to see someone not just complaining but offering solutions. I +1'd for the idea of increasing rewards for harder missions.

[krisp]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: increase credit rewards from monsters and boxes based on their level. That way people will stop and kill/open them once in a while.

 

With update 7, everybody needs credits. Give people an incentive to get them and they will stop rushing in the literal sense - trying to bypass every mob and just get to the exit asap.

[Yarrenze]

*Puts the pitchfork down.

 

  Giving a vote to kick option that can be only initiated by the host is pointless. In most of the games it will be the same as if the option doesn't exist. Vote-to-kick is a good option for leechers in the defense missions, tho I use leechers as a meat wall, so I also get some benefit from them. Regular, 3/4 vote to kick could be an option, with a text-box to describe why someone want that player kicked would be ok, tho it is susceptible to trolls.

  Rushers aren't that much of a problem IMHO, you still have one minute to get some extra stuff and kill some more of the enemies. If you want to explore, you have private/solo option, which you said you prefer, so you can explore as much as you want

  Host quitting is the problem because of the loot. It also resets the containers. That should be solved, since it's ridiculous. You can farm materials on the defense mission like that with a friend or two.

  Increasing rewards for planets with high-level enemies is a good idea. Getting a part yfor Sedna/Eris/Pluto is a pain in the arse, since the missions last longer and rewards same ammount of credits as running through a Mercury levels.

[Madotsuki]

*Puts the pitchfork down.

 

  Giving a vote to kick option that can be only initiated by the host is pointless. In most of the games it will be the same as if the option doesn't exist. Vote-to-kick is a good option for leechers in the defense missions, tho I use leechers as a meat wall, so I also get some benefit from them. Regular, 3/4 vote to kick could be an option, with a text-box to describe why someone want that player kicked would be ok, tho it is susceptible to trolls.

  Rushers aren't that much of a problem IMHO, you still have one minute to get some extra stuff and kill some more of the enemies. If you want to explore, you have private/solo option, which you said you prefer, so you can explore as much as you want

  Host quitting is the problem because of the loot. It also resets the containers. That should be solved, since it's ridiculous. You can farm materials on the defense mission like that with a friend or two.

  Increasing rewards for planets with high-level enemies is a good idea. Getting a part yfor Sedna/Eris/Pluto is a pain in the arse, since the missions last longer and rewards same ammount of credits as running through a Mercury levels.

In any case, for the vote-to-kick option, at least the host shouldn't be able to be kicked, even if others can initiate it. It's just stupid for you to start a game, and then get kicked out of YOUR OWN game.

[Yarrenze]

In any case, for the vote-to-kick option, at least the host shouldn't be able to be kicked, even if others can initiate it. It's just stupid for you to start a game, and then get kicked out of YOUR OWN game.

Of course, that is common sense :D

[Orabell]

10/10 would read again.

[CaptMytre]

If you are rushing bosses and quitting after the fight, you shouldn't be hosting a public match. Play by yourself, don't use others to get there faster. If you want the benefit of having other people to kill a boss faster, then you shouldn't be able to leave right after a boss and everyone else losing their loot they worked for just as hard as you did. Rushing and Boss Quits are gameplay issues that need fixing, not directly punishment, but so that they aren't valid reasons to do it.

 

As you have suggested, more credits in game than at the end of game to slow down rushers. Also, make the boss rewards given at the end of the level will stop Boss Quits.

[Mak_Gohae]

Efficiency ya'll!

[Fluffanutter]

Do I rush in Public Games? Sometimes. I will not however HOST and then Rush to a boss to quit out, that is simply rude. Most of the problems with Both sides of the Rusher/Quitter Crowd comes down to filtering it through common Courtesy first.

 

Fluffanutter

[Madotsuki]

Well great, they took the heavy-handed approach and will remove all loot from quitters. Now honest players are going to be punished for being glitched out or disconnected by the game or for having a life outside of the computer. YOU WHINERS HAPPY NOW??

[TheVavil]

1. Reformat boss levels so that bosses will be in the later half of the level. Right now, it takes extremely little time to get TO a boss, but it takes relatively A LOT MORE time to get to the extraction afterwards! This is a major reason people quit for efficiency! Simply have the road to the boss take up 2/3 of the level, and the road to extraction afterwards take up 1/3 (same total mission length, duh). This also makes bosses feel more like the climax of the mission. Everyone's happy!

 

Please don't do this. Leave it as it is.

It is actually really nice to have to fight your way out. The Oh S#&$ factor when the Boss goes down and the whole damn place turns up to kill you is great. You assassinated their Boss. They are annoyed.

The levels make perfect sense, You get in, kill the target, all hell breaks loose and you escape (or not).

The climax of the mission is getting out in one piece, not dying and with all your loot.

Why does every Boss kill in every bloody MMO have to end with a stroll to the exit, or a "click now to teleport to the other side of the universe and resume what you were doing" button.

[Madotsuki]

Please don't do this. Leave it as it is.

It is actually really nice to have to fight your way out. The Oh S#&$ factor when the Boss goes down and the whole damn place turns up to kill you is great. You assassinated their Boss. They are annoyed.

The levels make perfect sense, You get in, kill the target, all hell breaks loose and you escape (or not).

The climax of the mission is getting out in one piece, not dying and with all your loot.

Why does every Boss kill in every bloody MMO have to end with a stroll to the exit, or a "click now to teleport to the other side of the universe and resume what you were doing" button.

It is NOT an immediate stroll to the exit! There's still one third of the map left! And if you're so concerned with the "FIGHT YOUR WAY OUT" part, then why not have enemy spawn rate double after you kill the boss for the last one third of the mission, or continuous waves just steadily flowing in forcing you to fight your way out? The vast majority of games puts the boss at or near the end of a level FOR A REASON! Because it is the climax of the level! So that the goons beforehand can soften you up for the boss to have a higher chance of beating down on you! Not to mention in warframe it definately helps solve the quitter problem!

[TheVavil]

It is NOT an immediate stroll to the exit! There's still one third of the map left! And if you're so concerned with the "FIGHT YOUR WAY OUT" part, then why not have enemy spawn rate double after you kill the boss for the last one third of the mission, or continuous waves just steadily flowing in forcing you to fight your way out? The vast majority of games puts the boss at or near the end of a level FOR A REASON! Because it is the climax of the level! So that the goons beforehand can soften you up for the boss to have a higher chance of beating down on you! Not to mention in warframe it definately helps solve the quitter problem!

 

Like I said I think the Planets are fine as they are.

 

If you double the spawn or have continuous waves it would be even worse for the non-rushing/non-stealthy players. Two rushers make it to the exit and leave the non-rushers to deal with extra defenders/ continuous waves. This is not a solution to the rushing problem, and it might make more non-rushers quit the planet in despair at being left to deal with an unsurmountable number of defenders.

 

The "vast majority" of games put the Boss at the end because that is what everyone does...  so this is it, this is the end of game design.

 

Is there no room for originality in gaming/level design anymore?

Does everything have to be a clone of the game that went before it?

Are gamers just too thick to adapt to a different concept, or come into a game and actually play it the way it was designed to be played rather than try to change it into the game they used to play (USED TO PLAY until they rushed through it, farmed the Boss every 90 seconds, then got bored because they "Beat the Game" in a week).

 

The solutions you give to the "Rushing/Quitting" problem are not solutions as such, they are designed to pander to the Rushers and Quitters, to adapt the game to this kind of play. What you are basically saying is that because some people are arseholes we have to change the whole game to prevent them from ruining it for other players.

 

This is supposed to be a Co-Op game. I would suggest that a way to stop quitting/rushing would be to introduce penalties for rushing and quitting rather than ruining the game for all those nice Co-operative people.

 

This is kind of thing "- Aborting missions now forfeits any obtained credits, mods, resources or blueprints, earned XP is still rewarded" is a great start. And actually made me love this game all the more.

 

I am really glad I am playing a game that has some idiosyncracies and does not do what the vast majority of games do. Long may it continue.

[Pixues]

You got out of bed to write this?

[Madotsuki]

Like I said I think the Planets are fine as they are.

 

If you double the spawn or have continuous waves it would be even worse for the non-rushing/non-stealthy players. Two rushers make it to the exit and leave the non-rushers to deal with extra defenders/ continuous waves. This is not a solution to the rushing problem, and it might make more non-rushers quit the planet in despair at being left to deal with an unsurmountable number of defenders.

 

The "vast majority" of games put the Boss at the end because that is what everyone does...  so this is it, this is the end of game design.

 

Is there no room for originality in gaming/level design anymore?

Does everything have to be a clone of the game that went before it?

Are gamers just too thick to adapt to a different concept, or come into a game and actually play it the way it was designed to be played rather than try to change it into the game they used to play (USED TO PLAY until they rushed through it, farmed the Boss every 90 seconds, then got bored because they "Beat the Game" in a week).

 

The solutions you give to the "Rushing/Quitting" problem are not solutions as such, they are designed to pander to the Rushers and Quitters, to adapt the game to this kind of play. What you are basically saying is that because some people are arseholes we have to change the whole game to prevent them from ruining it for other players.

 

This is supposed to be a Co-Op game. I would suggest that a way to stop quitting/rushing would be to introduce penalties for rushing and quitting rather than ruining the game for all those nice Co-operative people.

 

This is kind of thing "- Aborting missions now forfeits any obtained credits, mods, resources or blueprints, earned XP is still rewarded" is a great start. And actually made me love this game all the more.

 

I am really glad I am playing a game that has some idiosyncracies and does not do what the vast majority of games do. Long may it continue.

And in the same way, you are advocating to punish everyone who does not play YOUR way. You don't even see how the "aborting mission=no loot" thing will screw up the game further, do you? It has practically destroyed Endless Defense for everyone, glitches/bugs/IRL will end up wasting all of your effort and time, quitters will continue to quit every time they don't get the drops they want, rushers will still rush to avoid getting killed, everyone else will play ultra-conservatively and not take risks due to the consequences, more hostility to random newbs and noobs because they can actually make you lose stuff now, etc. Again, this is a public game, your playstyle should not be the standard of everyone's playstyle. Plus, if anything, being "space ninjas", shouldn't things be done with a little bit of speed, instead of crouching in cover and playing whack-a-mole until everyone dies and then casually stroll to the next room while sweeping the place carefully for loot?

 

It is not pandering to the rushers/quitters. Why are bosses near the end of the level? Because it is the CLIMAX. Imagine if Megaman had you kill the boss at the very start and then stroll through the actual level. The bosses are supposed to be the hardest part of the game, or at least the level. Having you fight through waves of enemies to reach the boss is in itself exciting, especially for new players who have never fought the boss before. The problem is most apparent for Grineer bosses, slightly less so for Corpus, which are usually situated around the mid-point instead of in the first 10-20% of the map. I remember the first time I went to face Hyena. Watching it taunt me throughout the level, background information from Lotus, the tough enemies I had to fight through to get to it. It made me all the more anticipate the fight, it gave time for the game to build up tension. For Grineer bosses, I barely even hear one taunt from him before I reach him and kick his bloody &#!, then it's the boring generic waves of enemies like every single other mission. It's a killjoy. Yeah, maybe games don't always have to be the same. But when something works for so long, when practically every single game puts their boss at or near the end of a level/zone, you have to realize there's a REASON it works.

 

Again, my solutions are designed to make both sides happy, so that both sides can exist with the least confrontation. Will it completely solve the rusher/quitter problem? No. But it is a compromise to both sides, and some of the things i've suggested, such as vote-to-kick and lobby menus, are much needed for other reasons anyway. Your solution however, or rather DE's solution, is to alienate one side of the playerbase and inconvenience EVERYONE because you don't like them not playing your way in a public game of strangers.

[Madotsuki]

You got out of bed to write this?

Not really, it's more of a "signature" thing. Ever heard of Yume Nikki? You'll get the reference if you do a little research on that.

[Furyoushounen]

They just needed to put the BP at mission end...

[xStonedRaveNx]

what's this crap about endgame. play the freakin leaderboard if you've nothing else to do in the game.