Thank You So Much For The Update, But Please Fix Forfeiting Mods If Mission Fails!

[Luxangel7]

Edit: Just make it so that if you find a rare mod then you get to keep it, no matter what happens, you die, mission fails, get disconnected from host...whatever. Makes sense, it's fair and balanced, and you cant farm for a mod, so theres no way to exploit it! :D Please kee reading for original post, but the idea has now been revised

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PLEASE dear devs, PLEASE make it so that if I fail a mission because the team dies or defense fails or hostage dies whatever, that I get to keep the mods I found during the mission!

 

Right after your update I FINALLY got the split chamber mod which I've been waiting for my rifle to multi shot but since my team mates were too busy being heroes instead of protecting the hostage, we failed and got NOTHING, not even the mods we picked up...

 

If I was excited on a scale of 1-10 for the update I was an 8, only to be just as discouraged if not more to lose the mod because my team mates were being dumb and the new rewards structure doesn't let you keep the mods.

 

I'm happy that you fixed exploiting quitting missions, but at the same time PLEASE make it so that if you fail a mission legitimately you at least hold on to the mods you came across, as it already takes FOREVER to find some of these rare ones, if on top of that you add fail mission = no mods, then you might as well have tripled the rarity of the drop rate as far as I'm concerned... :[

 

Thank you for everything as always, but please here my plea! :/

Edited April 20, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Ragash]

+1 for this, is a legitimate request :3

 

If quit, no loot

if fail, keep at last mods

 

is fair enough imho.

[Rydiak]

What about people who die on purpose then?

[Luxangel7]

Thank you for agreeing, I'm biased of course, but I think it's a fair thing to ask.

 

(not that disagreeing isn't ok lol)

 

and Rydiak, if you die on purpose, forfeiting the mission, it means that you had no revives left, and that is something that falls into the current risk/reward system. If you don't have revives, you can wait, spend plat, or risk losing stuff when you die, it actually makes the revive count system make MORE sense in my opinion...not to mention that it gives people an actual reason to spend plat to refill revives instead of "i dont get to finish the mission"

 

(and by that I mean that if you die, you die, so you lose stuff to avoid exploiting, so be it, it seems like a happy middle ground, that is more than fair imo)

Edited April 20, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Rydiak]

You can forfeit when you still have revives.

[Xtorma]

As folks were discussing how to stop rushers and quitters, I urged in my posts to find a solution that would not punish good folks for the behaviour of a few less good folks. It seems we got the heavy handed approach.

[Luxangel7]

Rydiak, then the point of dying would either have to remain as is, or at least be looked at by the devs, but legitimately failing the mission because the hostage dies, or that last wave of defense failed or because you don't make it in timea fter killing the reactor shouldn't count (etc etc)

 

Im all for stopping people from exploiting the game or just pure rushing and aggravating players who actually want to play, but this is an unfortunate side effect that I believe needs to be addressed.

 

Or simply make it so that if you find a rare mod, then you get to keep it, no matter what. You can't farm for a rare card, so there's no way anyone would go to a world only for a mod and then die or quit.

[FallenDevil86]

 

Thank you for agreeing, I'm biased of course, but I think it's a fair thing to ask.

 

(not that disagreeing isn't ok lol)

 

and Rydiak, if you die on purpose, forfeiting the mission, it means that you had no revives left, and that is something that falls into the current risk/reward system. If you don't have revives, you can wait, spend plat, or risk losing stuff when you die, it actually makes the revive count system make MORE sense in my opinion...not to mention that it gives people an actual reason to spend plat to refill revives instead of "i dont get to finish the mission"

 

(and by that I mean that if you die, you die, so you lose stuff to avoid exploiting, so be it, it seems like a happy middle ground, that is more than fair imo)

 

 

 

 

I agree with you,we should able to keep our loots if we die,only if we die, not aborting the game,aborting the game will still get no loots. You have to choose the loots or your revives. It still have the risk.

 

People with many plats will recharges their revives,if they don't have any revive left.It will give some economic advantages for DE (more plats will be bought=more money for DE=Better game). But for free players,or players with not so many plats will have to wait until the next day for playing this game.

 

Sorry if my English is bad and if my idea is bad.This only an idea from me.:)

Edited April 20, 2013 by FallenDevil86

[Deost]

It'd be impossible to figure out if someone died on purpose so they could quit the mission. Of course their fail rate would look abysmal otherwise.

 

Pity you can't see someone's record w/o being their friend.

[Drusus]

This request really is not accounting for the fact that failing a mission is, essentially, just standing there and letting them shoot you.

 

This is different than hard aborting/disconnecting to abuse the system, how exactly?

 

Sorry guys, but this change is a smart change from where I sit and your request here simply ignores the basic understandable requirement that to acquire requires mission success.

 

It's a reasonable metric for acquisition of resources and should have been there from day one, really.

 

If we keep our experience on a mission failure, I personally, am good with that as a 'cut my losses' result.  

 

You are of course entitled to feel differently gents, just saying that this is overall a good change I think.  Sorry we disagree.

 

Edit: I saw the down voting coming for the dissenting view but it still made me chuckle.  Sorry to be the dissenter in your thread.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Drusus

[Luxangel7]

This request really is not accounting for the fact that failing a mission is, essentially, just standing there and letting them shoot you.

 

This is different than hard aborting/disconnecting to abuse the system, how exactly?

 

Sorry guys, but this change is a smart change from where I sit and your request here simply ignores the basic understandable requirement that to acquire requires mission success.

 

It's a reasonable metric for acquisition of resources and should have been there from day one, really.

 

If we keep our experience on a mission failure, I personally, am good with that as a 'cut my losses' result.  

 

You are of course entitled to feel differently gents, just saying that this is overall a good change I think.  Sorry we disagree.

 

Edit: I saw the down voting coming for the dissenting view but it still made me chuckle.  Sorry to be the dissenter in your thread.

 

I completely understand where you're coming from, and in fact that's why I revised my idea to just "let us keep our rare mods no matter what".

 

You can't "farm" rare mods, and this would solve in one fell swoop any issues while maintaining the integrity of the system as is to prevent exploiters and rushers/quitters.

 

Lemme know what you think, I only down vote when people are rude or say stupid things, I undertand what you were saying :)

[Drusus]

Totally fair minded LuxAngel.  'preciate that. :)

 

I understand the intent of keeping the rare ones but honestly, I think the mission completion point is a good point of in/out.

 

Fact is we have a number of ways to insulate mission loss:

 

A. Have revives

B. Have teammates

C. Be better prepared (Ammo, health kits, tailoring our loadout to mission/enemy types ((this is a FANTASTIC feature of the game, there is no 'one size fits all cases' perfect option at moment)))

D. Play better\mission focused (we should certainly at least account for smart versus terrible play, even though I concede, that's not a good metric; it just has to be accounted for logically)

 

Think of it in this context.

 

 If you know you just found 1 or 2 Rare mods, how much more inclined are you to use your Revives?  Me, i'm WAY more likely, and they are a resource I have 4 of, a day, per warframe in my stable.  That is a LOT of insulation against failure conditions.  Now grabbing a Rare mod drop starts giving me meaningful tactical choices of risk/reward.  Compare that to you just got smoked 20 yards into a mission and saying 'Ok, lesson learned, nothing really to preserve here, forfeit time' where you have the long game to conserve your resources.  Same goes for ammo boxes and medkits, when do you want to use these?  

 

I get the frustration right now at the shift, but this is a far superior model overall for lasting, worthwhile gameplay and blocking some truly abusive stupid people from being abusive and stupid (no matter how much they want to rage at the machine).

 

Defense missions absolutely warrant some further examination as their mission structure is notably different from all other missions with set objectives; I expect that adjustment is coming.  Similarly, people wigging out on bugs impacting with this mechanic are missing the point that bugs are bad; the BUG is the hard issue there needing immediate fixing, not the mechanic.  The beta process mandates bugs need to be found, assessed in priority in terms of gameplay impact, and then eliminated with the great big whack a mole hammer one uses to squash bugs. :)

 

I understand the desire on the Rare mods in particular but I hope the explanation above gives some more context to the options available to keeping those rare mods in your hands (bugs notwithstanding) and showing that we have a lot more tools to work within this mechanic than some of the disgruntled are considering.

[Quetzhal]

Similarly, people wigging out on bugs impacting with this mechanic are missing the point that bugs are bad; the BUG is the hard issue there needing immediate fixing, not the mechanic.  The beta process mandates bugs need to be found, assessed in priority in terms of gameplay impact, and then eliminated with the great big whack a mole hammer one uses to squash bugs. :)

This came up in another topic, and it's true, but only to a certain extent. Terrain bugs, for instance. The terrain bug may be the issue, but it's simply not feasible for the devs to track down and eliminate every single bug that can pop up in the terrain - There are much more important things to focus on.

I don't mind losing mods on abort/mission failure, as it makes sense, and I don't play Defense (though I do think changes for that are needed). I think a good solution for terrain bugs is to allow characters to be reset to a specific point on the map, though, so they can continue their mission. It's also a good safety net, as new terrain bugs will be introduced with each new tileset. That way no one can lose mods because of a simple bug.

Not that they shouldn't fix terrain bugs, of course; I just don't think it should be a priority when there's an easy workaround that will guarantee no loss for anyone unfortunate enough to experience it.

EDIT: With regards to aborting/failing and losing mods... You should certainly lose mods if you abort, though the reset system should also be implemented to avoid bugs causing a loss of mods. I am indifferent about keeping mods on mission failure, since I can see validity on both sides of the issue (really, it boils down to the fact that different people want different things out of the game and have fun under different conditions).

Edited April 21, 2013 by Quetzhal

[Zyfe3rX]

Die + forfeit=abort=no rewards.

Objective failure=legit=reward

Thats all we want

[GrimmLiberty]

Now this is a decent thread on the subject, and worth reading. 

 

Abort = lose it all

Fail = keep what you 'earned' so far,

(UNLESS you are doing a Defense mission where you are TOLD, "keep going and you could lose what you have"... it's a GAMBLE...)

 

seems fair to me...

Edited April 21, 2013 by GrimmLiberty

[Vilesavant]

Die + forfeit=abort=no rewards.

Objective failure=legit=reward

Thats all we want

 But as it was pointed out earlier in the thread there is no way to know when someone has a legit fail. It is no different than aborting. I get the mod I want, "Hey guys! I got a multishot let the mission fail so I can keep it!" Certainly if there needs to be a compromise there will be one, but as it is right now a good portion of the community do not see a reason that you should keep stuff on a fail. You did not succeed, you do not get stuff. This holds true in most every game out there. What is the real issue here are we legitimately worried about gameplay, or we mad because our farm got busted?

 

I know my score on it- I don't farm and this has had ZERO negative impact on me. It has helped with other, less desirable behaviors found in the population though. If I lost a good mod to objective loss, then someone on the team or even myself did something wrong. I lost a good mod because of connection, clipping, etc. Sucks, I'm mad, but thats how Beta rolls, its not perfect.

[ValhaHazred]

Yep, fail is fail. It's true it sucks to lose that good mod you where hoping for, but it will turn up again in the future.

[Drusus]

This came up in another topic, and it's true, but only to a certain extent. Terrain bugs, for instance. The terrain bug may be the issue, but it's simply not feasible for the devs to track down and eliminate every single bug that can pop up in the terrain - There are much more important things to focus on.

I don't mind losing mods on abort/mission failure, as it makes sense, and I don't play Defense (though I do think changes for that are needed). I think a good solution for terrain bugs is to allow characters to be reset to a specific point on the map, though, so they can continue their mission. It's also a good safety net, as new terrain bugs will be introduced with each new tileset. That way no one can lose mods because of a simple bug.

Not that they shouldn't fix terrain bugs, of course; I just don't think it should be a priority when there's an easy workaround that will guarantee no loss for anyone unfortunate enough to experience it.

EDIT: With regards to aborting/failing and losing mods... You should certainly lose mods if you abort, though the reset system should also be implemented to avoid bugs causing a loss of mods. I am indifferent about keeping mods on mission failure, since I can see validity on both sides of the issue (really, it boils down to the fact that different people want different things out of the game and have fun under different conditions).

 

Completely agree with a 'reposition' command being worthwhile on the terrain trap bug front.  I'm a bit surprised we don't have one actually.  

 

That's a 100% worthwhile feature/bug request mate, and should be proposed.  If it has a 30-60 second timer and zaps you back to point of entry or a 'known good' point in that room?  That sounds hardly abusable and would account for a lot of error cases.

[Sepharoth]

Well then, how about way points or save points in the missions. Once you get to a way point/save point, you keep everything up to that point. If not, you lose everything including xp. You can only use them once so you can't get a good mod and run safely back to the way point/save point to keep it. You have to make it to the next point or to the end of the mission. If you abort you lose everything, no brainer. But if you die because your out of revives or don't want to use them, you lose everything from the last way point/save point you passed. Still gives you an incentive to continue playing the mission and something even if you do fail. Not everyone plays the game the same way. I play online only with people I know because I know how they play. So I end up playing solo most of the time and I like a more casual style of game play, not hard core. Which in my opinion this has now become, because it is now all or nothing. And some people like it and that is cool. But many don't as well and that is cool to. There is now no middle ground. There is always going to be people who exploit or cheat every chance they get in everything. It just is sad that those that don't have to get punished as well. Just my thoughts.

[cyrusII]

Hi there, I have spotty internet connection at times, and when I lose internet right before wave 10 or 15 on a defense mission, I then have to fight alone and always fail because I can't kill everything hitting the pod quick enough. I can understand aborting a mission to get a Blueprint is not very good, but making me lose mods and materials because of a failure is not good game design. This change to fix the exploitation of blueprint farming has honestly made me not want to play certain missions with friends because hey, "I might just disconnect right in the middle and get really frustrated." Or hey, Flow could drop for me the first time and then I get disconnected. It happens. It's frustrating. I like this game a lot. Please fix. 

[Drusus]

Hi there, I have spotty internet connection at times, and when I lose internet right before wave 10 or 15 on a defense mission, I then have to fight alone and always fail because I can't kill everything hitting the pod quick enough. I can understand aborting a mission to get a Blueprint is not very good, but making me lose mods and materials because of a failure is not good game design. This change to fix the exploitation of blueprint farming has honestly made me not want to play certain missions with friends because hey, "I might just disconnect right in the middle and get really frustrated." Or hey, Flow could drop for me the first time and then I get disconnected. It happens. It's frustrating. I like this game a lot. Please fix. 

 

I feel for you on the technical difficulties, but even in your description you denote the fact you have a major techincal issue that operates entirely beyond and outside the scope of DE's technical control in many respects. 

 

Should a tolerance for 'rejoining' be added?  I think that makes sense so that if you were already IN the mission, you can rejoin the mission in progress.  That's fair minded.

 

But at the end of the day in your situation it's not DE's ability, or even responsibility, to compensate at length for a technical limitation that they cannot control or compensate for in that your I-net link is flakier than a bowl of Shreddies.

 

I do feel for you mate, truly, but you cannot legitimately accuse them of bad game design becaues the _technical_ limits of you playing an online game, namely that of a reliable connection to the service, are not being met.  It simply sets up an unrealistic target to be met even if they are doing their best to insulate against it.

 

There are mechanical failings and technical failings; at best, not being more tolerant of disconnect cases is a technical failing, not game mechanical.

 

Sorry about your situation but sympathetic as I am, I truly believe it argues the wrong case.

[Destati]

for all maps, mods should be retained upon a failed mission once the objective is complete.

For defense maps, it should be once the players have made it to wave 5.

[Furyoushounen]

What about people who die on purpose then?

 

Then they waste their revives or don't get mission-end bonuses. That's exactly why BPs should be awarded at mission end. The mission is ASSASSINATE not PICK UP BOSS LOOT. Every other mission type gives reward at mission end, why they hell does Assassinate have to give the reward off the target?

[Biscuithammer]

Yeah, I don't quite understand the logic behind this. The game is pretty grind heavy and it sucks to lose everything you've accumulated on a mission just because the mission failed.

[Rost87]

I agree with the "unintended" disconnection issue.  Some of those disconnections are due to  legitimate internet troubles or a bad host connection. However, there really isn't a way for game developers to determine if a disconnection is intentional or not. sometimes my router will stop for a second and it will take too long to get going and the game will stop working.

 

In addition, they may have cape-wearing, potatoed hamsters working for them. They can't fix problems like bad internet where someone lives.

 

It sucks losing stuff when you cant control the darn university internet you have.........................

Drusus above me suggested a "tolerance" for adding. Can that be done for disconnections? Maybe have the game log you out a little longer after the disconnection? It seems like right now it only takes losing the wifi signal for a split second to disconnect me.

 

I would love a small window of time  to log back in click the mission again.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Rost87