Just Lost 10+ Mods From Failing A Legitimate Defense

[Lunar_Havoc]

Was doing a defense on Ceres, 2/4 people left at wave 5, we ended up failing on 6 with only 2 but I didn't really care, until it revoked all of the things I earned.

 

I understand the removing items and resources from abandoned missions to combat exploits, but this is just ridiculous and extremely detrimental to legitimate players. Please rethink the decision to revoke all the hard earned items, even if it's only mods. You can get resources anywhere, but losing that one mod you need because of a failure would be heartbreaking.

 

tl;dr DE please revert the items wipes on failed missions.

 

EDIT: The suggestion has been made that on every 5 levels completed, your currently collected items & resources are saved. This is a completely acceptable compromise. It would allow us to reach for level 20 again without the crushing penalties of the current build.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Lunar_Havoc

[austinrelis]

So you want mods for failing a mission?

[jebronlames_W]

If you loose mods when failing a defense mission why would anybody ever go higher than 5-10.

[Soulie]

Yeah, this change makes defense missions pretty harsh when people bail out on you at certain waves.  It's too easy to fail while waiting for new players to join and fill the open spots.

 

Maybe they could change it to where you stuff you get per wave.  So you'd still get to keep all the stuff you had up to wave 5.  Sounds like a nightmare to code though.

 

But there should also be a difference between ABORTING and FAILING a mission.  The change was put in place, because people were aborting the mission.

[Worira]

So you want mods for failing a mission?

 

No, he wants mods he already earned for killing enemies and collecting the drops to not be taken away from him as a penalty for failing the mission.

[Gaiters]

I don't think you should get rewards for aborting or failing missions.

It just doesn't make any sense. Defense missions are about more risk more reward, not guaranteed reward.

Also, you haven't earned anything until the mission is complete. :X

Edited April 20, 2013 by ZEDD

[Deost]

Only problem is - the folks who bail get their stuff.

 

The guy who stayed behind and doesn't have a full team now gets shafted.

 

Maybe have a timer or something before the next wave begins so there's some time to pick up another couple of players?

 

Might help.

[Gaiters]

Don't vote to go on if you don't have your team with you.

[MoonicusMaximus]

It's a rough position. If it was changed to only losing all mods/credits/etc upon Aborting the mission, speedfarmers would just let themselves get killed instead and speedfarm in that manner.

 

This does make Defense missions very, VERY hairy, though, especially if you're looking to go onward. How about if you able to keep the mods you acquired every 5 waves, with 5-10 being forfeit if you fail the mission. When you complete Wave 10, you can keep all the stuff you've obtained to that point, while 10-15 will be lost if you lose, etc., so on and so forth.

 

As it is right now... yes, this seems like an incredibly harsh punishment on those looking to see how far they can go in Defense missions... but I can see how it would fit, being a harsh risk versus reward scenario. Defense missions are easily the best place to go when mod hunting, so if you want the mods, you need to be smart.

[Madotsuki]

It's a rough position. If it was changed to only losing all mods/credits/etc upon Aborting the mission, speedfarmers would just let themselves get killed instead and speedfarm in that manner.

 

This does make Defense missions very, VERY hairy, though, especially if you're looking to go onward. How about if you able to keep the mods you acquired every 5 waves, with 5-10 being forfeit if you fail the mission. When you complete Wave 10, you can keep all the stuff you've obtained to that point, while 10-15 will be lost if you lose, etc., so on and so forth.

 

As it is right now... yes, this seems like an incredibly harsh punishment on those looking to see how far they can go in Defense missions... but I can see how it would fit, being a harsh risk versus reward scenario. Defense missions are easily the best place to go when mod hunting, so if you want the mods, you need to be smart.

If by "smart" you mean "NEVER GO PAST WAVE 5", then yes. It's not like the rewards scale based on your wave number. You could get an ammo box on wave 30 and a redirection on wave 5. As it currently stands, since even legitimately losing will wipe ALL of your effort up to that point, there's even less reason to challenge yourself and see how far you can get. If anything, it DEMOTIVATES people to try for more challenging stuff.

[VanillaRegal]

If by "smart" you mean "NEVER GO PAST WAVE 5", then yes. It's not like the rewards scale based on your wave number. You could get an ammo box on wave 30 and a redirection on wave 5. As it currently stands, since even legitimately losing will wipe ALL of your effort up to that point, there's even less reason to challenge yourself and see how far you can get. If anything, it DEMOTIVATES people to try for more challenging stuff.

 

Right now, this patch is essentially saying "Don't do defense missions unless you enjoy wasting time and effort for no reward"

 

I do enjoy that the credits are now scaling, though. It used to take upwards of an hour to get 10k credits. Now I can actually fuse mods more than once a day. I just wish stuff like Rubedo and Alloy Plate dropped more often/was not mandatory for nearly everything craftable.

[Soulie]

If by "smart" you mean "NEVER GO PAST WAVE 5", then yes. It's not like the rewards scale based on your wave number. You could get an ammo box on wave 30 and a redirection on wave 5. As it currently stands, since even legitimately losing will wipe ALL of your effort up to that point, there's even less reason to challenge yourself and see how far you can get. If anything, it DEMOTIVATES people to try for more challenging stuff.

Completely agree.  It also discourages people from playing in pugs.  When one new player on the team screws up, because he doesn't quite know the strategy, it shouldn't penalize everyone on the team.  These changes are a bit too unforgiving.

[Braken]

I don't believe they really thought this through...

 

Before, I'd be perfectly willing to wait till round 15 to stop, but now? I prefer 10, but even that can be risky, depending on the team...

[spikeyhare]

This is a great example of risk/reward however a simple checkpoint system would help with it. I doesn't have to be every wave like Soulie said but maybe every 5th wave. Maybe they could give it a gamble system for it. Some way of increasing the mod drop rate at later waves by risking a mod or two. That was those who want more risk can have it and those who want some safe loot can do that too. I think it would be a win/win for all.

The risk/reward system is a big part of gaming. The hardest part is finding a balance to the system. That is what they are doing now. They did have no risk on these mission now they have just swung the other way for a time with huge risks. It will take them a bit to balance the system.

Edited April 20, 2013 by spikeyhare

[LoRDxDeMoN]

More games should punish players for failure.

 

Edit: If not punish, then at least not reward players for failure.

Edited April 20, 2013 by LoRDxDeMoN

[Braken]

More games should punish players for failure.

 

It's elitists like you who ruin games...

 

Games are supposed to be entertaining, not frustrating. Being punished is (generally) not entertaining at all.

[LoRDxDeMoN]

It's elitists like you who ruin games...

 

Games are supposed to be entertaining, not frustrating. Being punished is (generally) not entertaining at all.

 

Yeah? There are thousands of games that will restart the level you're on, if not the whole game, if you die. That's punishment for failure. Plenty of them are entertaining.

Edited April 20, 2013 by LoRDxDeMoN

[Ellare.Mezzo]

It's elitists like you who ruin games...

 

Games are supposed to be entertaining, not frustrating. Being punished is (generally) not entertaining at all.

 

Nope, it was casuals like you. We have too much casual S#&$ and not enough hardcore. I was playing Warframe for almost all my free time after U7, but now with this ridiculous shield and health it's more like 30 min per day =_=

[Madotsuki]

Nope, it was casuals like you. We have too much casual S#&$ and not enough hardcore. I was playing Warframe for almost all my free time after U7, but now with this ridiculous shield and health it's more like 30 min per day =_=

When was it stated that Warframe was supposed to be Hardcore? If you want Hardcore go play Dark Souls. Go play NetHack. Go play I Wanna Be The Guy, or Super Meat Boy, or MOBAs, or Starcraft against Koreans, etc. Warframe was never supposed to be "hardcore", it's just you elitists that want to make it hardcore and kick everyone who's not elite enough out.

[Ghobe]

It's elitists like you who ruin games...

 

Games are supposed to be entertaining, not frustrating. Being punished is (generally) not entertaining at all.

Games were originally about being mentally challenging. Fun was just something that came along for the ride.

 

I believe the better solution here is that mods and resources need to become much more rare in the earlier waves, while becoming more and more common every 5 waves. Ontop of this, defense needs to add on to the reward you get for every 5 wave clearances, rather than replacing it and losing it forever, I find it rather irritating to need to stop because I really want the mod that is a reward on wave 5. You also need the ability to be able to move while the choice of leaving or staying to collect anything else before leaving, or when you choose to leave an exit door should open up for you to reach an extraction point. This gives you incentive to keep going.

[SkyRocker]

Yeah I just had the same thing happen to me.  Kinda sucks that you can't keep the rewards that you've already gotten, if you FAIL.  I hear about exploits, hackers, cheaters etc.  WHO CARES?  I certainly don't and I don't see why anyone else does at this point.  There's no PVP, we're not fighting one another.  Why do I care if someone cheats their way into the best armor or whatever the cheater is after.  What's the difference?  I get so tired of being penalized for the actions of a few.  I play the defense missions to get mods, am I a cheater?  Because I might play one 2 or 3 times in a row to get mods to improve my character?  I've already spent a few bucks to get a sentinel, and could see myself spending more money on the game, maybe even a monthly sub if it ever goes that way but not if stuff like this keeps happening.  Penalizing EVERYONE because of the actions of a few rotten apples.  Take stuff from the cheaters if it's so important.

[Ellare.Mezzo]

When was it stated that Warframe was supposed to be Hardcore? If you want Hardcore go play Dark Souls. Go play NetHack. Go play I Wanna Be The Guy, or Super Meat Boy, or MOBAs, or Starcraft against Koreans, etc. Warframe was never supposed to be "hardcore", it's just you elitists that want to make it hardcore and kick everyone who's not elite enough out.

 

Dark Souls, NetHack, Starcraft - already. IWBTG and Super Meat Boy are not hardcore games, it's "became a macro" fest. And yes, I know that WF was not supposed to be hardcore, but it was good two weeks.

 

About kick "everyone who's not elite enough out" - I'm just don't care about people, it is too much trash among them. But I'm understand that DE cares, so I'm just waiting for U8 and hope for some really hard areas or bosses.

[Yanga]

I don't think you should get rewards for aborting or failing missions.

It just doesn't make any sense. Defense missions are about more risk more reward, not guaranteed reward.

Also, you haven't earned anything until the mission is complete. :X

Picture, yea... real mature.

Endless Defense missions might be a risk/reward set up but those who go through a large amount of waves and just loses all of his stuff because of his team bailing on the previous wave shouldn't be the person's fault. If it would continue, players would be discourage in continuing on the Endless Defense... and since most players go onto it to farm, well, they just lost a good farm.

If players kept what they got from the previous 5 waves (every 5 wave = end or continue, if continue, keep items from the waves before that 5th but not after it), then we would have less of a issue. Right now, players are either doing these things right now.

1) Immediate quiting of Endless Defense until DE makes it so they keep 'SOME' of the mods they earned when they failed.

2) Complain on forums of the issue (which is currently going on, so it's best to get some ideas working for DE to go off)

3) They take a break, then come back 20mins later to give it another go. (Which is the calmest thing)

 

Sorry if this looks like nagging or insulting to anyone... but this issue had to be said like this or it wouldn't be going anywhere :l

[neKroMancer]

I think Endless defense is a minigame to earn mods faster with a bit of decision making.

 

Decision making part just got larger, which is good. Before 7.8 it's a bit strange when you're dead and still kept the loot. You're not extracted, how did you magically keep the loot? Now, it's a bit more like a game than a mod grinding exercise.

 

Continue for more reward and risk failing the mission VS Quit and keep everything.

I think it's fair. Reminds me of FFVII golden saucer arena battle - you win, you got reward, You lose, you got tissue :D

[LoRDxDeMoN]

I think Endless defense is a minigame to earn mods faster with a bit of decision making.

 

Decision making part just got larger, which is good. Before 7.8 it's a bit strange when you're dead and still kept the loot. You're not extracted, how did you magically keep the loot? Now, it's a bit more like a game than a mod grinding exercise.

 

Continue for more reward and risk failing the mission VS Quit and keep everything.

I think it's fair. Reminds me of FFVII golden saucer arena battle - you win, you got reward, You lose, you got tissue :D

 

Well said.