Player-Driven Credits To/from Platinum Exchange

[Zekarus]

Here's one thing I've read many, many times on the forums :

 

the demand to allow X to be unlockable by credits.

DE probably would prefer that people spend platinum to unlock things, so they can earn some income. Understandable.

 

 

But here's one thing I've never, ever, have read on the forums:

 

being able to trade credits and platinum in a user-driven environment

I'm not an economist, and some form of balance of credit source/credit sink (among others) may need to be established over time.

 

Guild Wars 2 has such a system. You can buy "Gems" (cash currency) with in-game money. Players put in buy orders and sell orders of Gems, and those orders are met. There's even people who play stock market with it, buying them when it's low, and selling them when it's high, usually coinciding with new release of things.

 

Star Trek Online has "dilithium" (pseud-premium currency earned in-game) to "Zen" (cash currency) exchange. Same idea as Guild Wars 2. Players put in buy and sell orders, and those orders are met. People also play stock market with it.

 

The idea is that people who can't spend real money for whatever reason can have access to cash currency by grinding in-game currency for it, and people who'd rather get the quick in-game currency income would simply sell their premium thing instead.

 

Going to repeat this because this is important, and people don't always read closely. Some form of economy balance probably should be created before this is even considered. But it could be a nice compromise of "free players having access to premium things" and "DE would like some revenue".

 

 

Edit : to further elaborate, since I apparently suck at describing and explaining.

 

o This is not a quick "grind for a few hours! get hundreds of plat!". One of the examples I put forward - Star Trek Online - has about 4-6 months of grinding for a premium ship. So be it.

 

o The games which has this system caters to people who will buy premium currency for the express purpose of selling it for quick in-game currency boost. Rather than "losing" revenue (how?), it's addition of at least one other possible revenue.

 

o The supply of demand would, in theory, keep the price "fair". If it tips too heavily to one side, one can go "not going to sell $5/75 plat for 100,000 credits! / not going to buy 10 platinum for 5,000,000 credits!" and reach equilibrium.

 

o It's not creation of new platinum. Players would need to purchase platinum in order to list in on the market to sell.

 

o You cannot purchase credits with platinum in the market interface anymore. And it's only one-way. Doesn't count.

 

o F2P players are not getting something for "free". They will be earning platinum based on prices a seller has to chosen to sell them at. You are not forced to participate. You are free to set your own prices.

 

o The only thing this should (should) add is another group of people that will purchase platinum to sell. Not replacing the current model, but supplementing it. It's about the option to do so. Optional. You are not forced to participate.

 

o You are not forced to participate.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[AndryB94]

It's strange that you haven't mentioned EVE online which is, arguably, the most famous type. Players can buy PLEX (items) with real-life money. A PLEX can be used to pay a month of in-game subscription, and it can also be sold in-game. It creates a strong real-life money to in-game currency economy.

Something similar, but just with platinum, would be great. People could buy Platinum to get extra credits, and people could farm extra credits to buy some Platinum.

[Satori_Mind]

There was a platinum to credits option in the market not long ago, but the conversion rate was pretty poor anyway.  More players need to accept that you can't always have everything in a free to play game unless you're willing to go premium.

[Venarge]

Since almost every item can already be obtained by simple playing, I dont see this coming. DE gives players every skin/weapon/frame by just playing.

They even think about slots now.
No need to give away even more cash....

 

Besides that: GW2 had a purchase price of 50 bucks

EVE does have monthly fees.

 

Warframe? Nothing.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Venarge

[Zekarus]

It's strange that you haven't mentioned EVE online which is, arguably, the most famous type. Players can buy PLEX (items) with real-life money. A PLEX can be used to pay a month of in-game subscription, and it can also be sold in-game. It creates a strong real-life money to in-game currency economy.

Something similar, but just with platinum, would be great. People could buy Platinum to get extra credits, and people could farm extra credits to buy some Platinum.

 

After quite a few years of 0.0 in Eve, I've chosen to purge any and all recollection of this game from my memory. I found the community to be extremely toxic and demanding.

 

But personal opinions aside, Eve is an entirely whole new beast with its player-driven economy. Postgraduate economics papers were written on the game.

 

Nonetheless, it's a great example. Back when I played, game-time codes were converted into items called "PLEX" that could be used in-game to add another 30 days of game-time, or sold on the market. Then the whole Aurum or some such came in, and I lost track after that.

 

Having an "official", "safe" and "approved" way of buying/selling in-game currency also tend to greatly reduce RMT business.

 

 

There was a platinum to credits option in the market not long ago, but the conversion rate was pretty poor anyway.  More players need to accept that you can't always have everything in a free to play game unless you're willing to go premium.

 

 Which was only one-way, and is more or less irrelevant to this topic. This is about free-to-play players getting access to platinum, not people who can afford platinum to get in-game currency.

 

 

 

Since almost every item can already be obtained by simple playing, I dont see this coming. DE gives players every skin/weapon/frame by just playing.

They even think about slots now.

No need to give away even more cash....

 

Besides that: GW2 had a purchase price of 50 bucks

EVE does have monthly fees.

 

Warframe? Nothing.

 

A good part of platinum is convenience. Being able to rush projects. Buying more slots. Possible cosmetics coming in. Not having to wait for alerts and being able to buy one now. 

 

You also conveniently forgot the Star Trek Online example. Neverwinter Online also will have a similar system, being created by the same devs.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[Satori_Mind]

 Which was only one-way, and is more or less irrelevant to this topic. This is about free-to-play players getting access to platinum, not people who can afford platinum to get in-game currency.

 

That's what I'm getting at.  Free-to-play players get free-to-play content and benefits.  Premium players get cosmetics and convenience.  Welcome to the world as we know it.

[Zekarus]

That's what I'm getting at.  Free-to-play players get free-to-play content and benefits.  Premium players get cosmetics and convenience.  Welcome to the world as we know it.

 

I fail to see how this should impede attempts at improvement on existing systems.

[Satori_Mind]

I fail to see how this should impede attempts at improvement on existing systems.

 

It's not an improvement.  You're just doing the passive-aggressive petitioning for free shortcuts.  Someone does it every day here.

[Venarge]

I fail to see how this should impede attempts at improvement on existing systems.

The system doesnt need any improvements.

You get 90% of the content for free.

Slots might be added.

Why should they add something that decreases their profit even more.....

[-.SP.-G43riel]

I think DDO had a system where as you remade quests in higher ranked instances, you had a specific separated xp (like fame or something of sorts) which you lvled up by gaining points for doing high rank quests (repeating them wouldn't give points again). You received a small amount of cash each time you gained a lvl on that , which was really small but enough to buy a few things. It was possible to buy a lot of content doing that but required a lot more of time, really a lot more... 

And besides even with that, anyone who decided to really play it would eventually pay after reaching higher levels, you could still play free, but it would be troublesome without some features and content that the game could offer to help you.

 

Anyway  small amount of cash could always be a ultra rare random drop in warframe with no specific location.

[AndryB94]

That's what I'm getting at.  Free-to-play players get free-to-play content and benefits.  Premium players get cosmetics and convenience.  Welcome to the world as we know it.

That sounds like you're judging people by the money they have and not by what they are.

Don't take me wrong, I am not some sort of communist. I'm a "gamer" (sort of), I have time to spare to videogames, I provide feedback and talk whenever I can and I tend to be friendly. I've noticed some people just paid 250$ to get a Founder kit and tonnes of Platinum and are complete... Uhm... You know what I mean. Does that make me worse than them or something?

I'm not saying F2P players should have access to everything. You can keep me out of all the cosmetical stuff, I just don't want to be penalised in-game, especially gameplay-wise, for not having access to some items.

Edit: I honestly don't care if the ratio of credits-to-platinum is low. As long as I have some means of attaining the small quantities I need for, as an example, buy potatoes or slots.

Edited April 20, 2013 by AndryB94

[Zekarus]

It's not an improvement.  You're just doing the passive-aggressive petitioning for free shortcuts.  Someone does it every day here.

 

Yes. It's a petition for free shortcuts, but because it has a potential benefit to the community. Treating F2P players like second-class citizens sounds like an awfully good way of maintaining a good community.

 

Your argument consist entirely of "F2P players don't deserve premium if they don't want to pay for it, because they haven't paid for it" tautology. I'm not trying to defend my point. I'm completely and utterly failing to see the point you are trying to make. Please elaborate further on why this is a bad idea. So far, I have:

 

o F2P players shouldn't expect to have access to premium content.

o F2P players should learn to deal with it, that's the world we live in, etc. etc.

 

Which tells me absolutely nothing

 

 

 

The system doesnt need any improvements.

You get 90% of the content for free.

Slots might be added.

Why should they add something that decreases their profit even more.....

 

 

To purchase platinum from other players with in-game currency, someone would have to buy them and list them on the market. Thus potentially creating additional revenue. No platinum is artificially generated. Only purchased. The lack of reading comprehension on this forum baffles me on a daily basis.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[Venarge]

Edit: I honestly don't care if the ratio of credits-to-platinum is low. As long as I have some means of attaining the small quantities I need for, as an example, buy potatoes or slots.

Ok. Lets sum up what things are actually worth to pay for:

Potatoes

Slots

 

Everything else can be obtained by playing.

 

Potatoes are a patience reward. You get enough witht the time.

Slots might be added for every 2 mastery ranks.

 

There is not a single positive aspect in giving away platinum for free....

Edited April 20, 2013 by Venarge

[Zekarus]

Ok. Lets sum up what things are actually worth to pay for:

Potatoes

Slots

 

Everything else can be obtained by playing.

 

Potatoes is a patience reward. You get enough witht the time.

Slots might be added for every 2 mastery ranks.

 

There is not a single positive aspect in giving away platinum for free....

 

I have no idea where you go the "free" one. Let me re-iterate from one of my previous posts.

 

 

To purchase platinum from other players with in-game currency, someone would have to buy them and list them on the market. Thus potentially creating additional revenue. No platinum is artificially generated. Only purchased. The lack of reading comprehension on this forum baffles me on a daily basis.

 

[AndryB94]

Ok. Lets sum up what things are actually worth to pay for:

Potatoes

Slots

 

Everything else can be obtained by playing.

 

Potatoes is a patience reward. You get enough witht the time.

Slots might be added for every 2 mastery ranks.

 

There is not a single positive aspect in giving away platinum for free....

Sentinels, perhaps.

They are very cheap with Platinum and come up with two mods already. With credits, you need 100k for the blueprint, some more to build it, and then you come up with a Sentinel with no mods at all.

Also, what makes you think that? Perhaps if a game offered you the chance to gain small amounts of the premium currency, a lot more people would be willing to play it, and farm it. More people usually means a stronger game and a larger reach, which results in more people possibly interested in the game. Which also results in more people willing to go premium.

Ugh, my writing is a bit weird today. I hope this makes sense.

[Venarge]

To purchase platinum from other players with in-game currency, someone would have to buy them and list them on the market. Thus potentially creating additional revenue. No platinum is artificially generated. Only purchased. The lack of reading comprehension on this forum baffles me on a daily basis.

So you want to create a nice exploit ?

Example:

You are able to sell your plat on the market.

You create another acc, get your 50 start plat and sell it for 1 cred to your main account. Repeat.

Great idea....

[Zekarus]

Also, what makes you think that? Perhaps if a game offered you the chance to gain small amounts of the premium currency, a lot more people would be willing to play it, and farm it. More people usually means a stronger game and a larger reach, which results in more people possibly interested in the game. Which also results in more people willing to go premium.

 

 

It's that taste. 50 platinum is perfect. Just that taste. It's free. Taste it.

 

Then you want more.

 

I'm all for letting F2P players earn it through grinding, and I'm all for people with more money than time (or effort) get in-game money by giving DE money.

 

 

 

So you want to create a nice exploit ?

Example:

You are able to sell your plat on the market.

You create another acc, get your 50 start plat and sell it for 1 cred to your main account. Repeat.

Great idea....

 

 

System that only needs minor adjustments. A simple way could be "listings must be at least 51 platinum", the free plat could go away, and so on. The overall critical thinking ability of this forum - or lack thereof - baffles me also. I thought I was clueless in all things economics and money-related.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[AndryB94]

So you want to create a nice exploit ?

Example:

You are able to sell your plat on the market.

You create another acc, get your 50 start plat and sell it for 1 cred to your main account. Repeat.

Great idea....

But this is only because you start with 50 plat.

If you didn't start with 50 platinum........................

[Satori_Mind]

Man, some of you guys have some serious entitlement issues.  All this and more you want at no cost to yourselves.  I do agree that 1 extra frame slot by default would be nice.  Know what's cool about all those other slots?  They can be reused.

 

Entirely f2p players will be inconvenienced.  That's a fact.  It's how the model works with any free game you care to name.  I do think it's cool that a completely free player can be on par with any premium player in Warframe.  That's pretty great.

[Venarge]

Sentinels, perhaps.

They are very cheap with Platinum and come up with two mods already. With credits, you need 100k for the blueprint, some more to build it, and then you come up with a Sentinel with no mods at all.

Also, what makes you think that? Perhaps if a game offered you the chance to gain small amounts of the premium currency, a lot more people would be willing to play it, and farm it. More people usually means a stronger game and a larger reach, which results in more people possibly interested in the game. Which also results in more people willing to go premium.

Ugh, my writing is a bit weird today. I hope this makes sense.

 

Yeah I get what you mean ^^

But your thinking is a bit, too friendly. Even if the player base grows.

Do you actually think people would spend money on something that already gives you so much stuff for free?

Edited April 20, 2013 by Venarge

[Venarge]

But this is only because you start with 50 plat.

If you didn't start with 50 platinum........................

 

They have no intention to change that.

Everybody should be able to get some extra stuff to get a taste of what you might have.

Giving away no plat isnt smart.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Venarge

[Zekarus]

Yeah I get what you mean ^^

But your thinking is a bit, too friendly. Even if the player base grows.

Do you actually think people would spend money on something that already gives you so much stuff for free?

 

Didn't you spend money on this game? Didn't I? DE is still in business, and I presume they're getting some form of revenue from people buying platinum.

 

 

Man, some of you guys have some serious entitlement issues.  All this and more you want at no cost to yourselves.  I do agree that 1 extra frame slot by default would be nice.  Know what's cool about all those other slots?  They can be reused.

 

Entirely f2p players will be inconvenienced.  That's a fact.  It's how the model works with any free game you care to name.  I do think it's cool that a completely free player can be on par with any premium player in Warframe.  That's pretty great.

 

Then you can choose to not participate in the market, and let the people who will sell platinum decide how much to gouge the F2P players for.

 

 

They have no intention to change that.

Everybody should be able to get some extra stuff to get a taste of what you might have.

Giving away no plat isnt smart.

 

There's another thing that was missed in all the frantic mutual edit-wars.

 

 

System that only needs minor adjustments. A simple way could be "listings must be at least 51 platinum", the free plat could go away, and so on. The overall critical thinking ability of this forum - or lack thereof - baffles me also. I thought I was clueless in all things economics and money-related.

 

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[Venarge]

Didn't you spend money on this game? Didn't I? DE is still in business, and I presume they're getting some form of revenue from people buying platinum.

Sure. But this program wont last forever. Sooner or later, you will only have the "buy plat" option. You dont really get any extra stuff by buying. And the cost/profit exchange wouldnt be that awesome. Bigger playerbase always means more cost on the server side.

Sure it would be cool to have 12 million players because the game is so friendly to everyone. But do you really think the few of us who actually pay would catch these enormous costs?

[AndryB94]

Yeah I get what you mean ^^

But your thinking is a bit, too friendly. Even if the player base grows.

Do you actually think people would spend money on something that already gives you so much stuff for free?

Yes.

Leagues of Legends. -EVERYTHING- the game provides you, you can gain by farming in-game matches. The only exception is champion skins, which are purely cosmetical. Yet the game has a huge revenue and they never had to make any chances to this basic system. In fact, I know several people who spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars/euros/pounds on the game, either by buying skins, some packs, or insta-buy some champions as soon as they came out.

LOTRO allows you to gain some of the "premium" currency if you do some special missions, which very often involve you to farm a lot of enemies or deeply explore every bit of the map. If you subscribe to them you get some of the currency monthly, but even entirely F2P characters have a possibility to play and have access to some of the premium currency. The game also seems to be working fine to me and without many problems.

EDIT:

Blacklight Retribution is another good example. It's a system extremly similar to Warframe - You can gain access to some weapons, weapon types and customisations by paying with their premiumc urrency, but you can access them by levelling and buying them with the normal currency as well.

Edited April 20, 2013 by AndryB94

[Zekarus]

Sure. But this program wont last forever. Sooner or later, you will only have the "buy plat" option. You dont really get any extra stuff by buying. And the cost/profit exchange wouldnt be that awesome. Bigger playerbase always means more cost on the server side.

Sure it would be cool to have 12 million players because the game is so friendly to everyone. But do you really think the few of us who actually pay would catch these enormous costs?

 

As I said in the opening post - I'm terrible with economics. I have no plans to balance the supply and the demand of credits and platinum, and I have no plans to pretend that I do. This is an option. If DE does it, it'll be their job to create a demand for platinum.

 

Frankly, I have no idea how companies like ArenaNet (Guild Wars 2), Cryptic (Star Trek Online), Zombie Studios (Blacklight) maintain revenue on a F2P game. But such systems exist in other games, and they do work (note : Blacklight has no such trading system, but it is another game where everything but loadout slots and camos are available for free, perhaps a bit like Warframe).

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus