Scindo Or Fragor?

[Luociano]

That's pretty much it, what are the pro's and con's on each of those weapons? 

 

I only have the cronus sword right now. 

 

Ty

[CoolHipDude]

Fragor ignores armor and is probably better for Grineer and Corpus. Scindo does triple damage to infested except for ancients. Both weapons can hit multiple targets at once but each weapon is very slow and shakes the screen quite a lot. I personally use a Fragor against Grineer and Corpus and Gram against infested. Bunch of my friends say that Scindo is really good, but I've never used it. It's a pretty tough decision. 

[Worira]

Scindo and Gram are both much better than Fragor, because you should be using them primarily with charged attacks which ignore armour anyway.

[nabeshin]

Fragor has a huge AOE knock down effect with its jump attack, which is worth a mention, I think.

[Mir.]

Scindo personally, since I personally play a lot of infested missions

[smithf]

I think they are close enough that you can just pick one based on your own preference. Ultimately, get both :)

[BarbaricKai]

I hear Fragors AoE knockdown with an ice element mod is pretty sweet

[Acyl]

Scindo and Gram are both much better than Fragor, because you should be using them primarily with charged attacks which ignore armour anyway.

 

I'm not sure why he got downvoted. It's a fair opinion.

 

As other posters have mentioned, the key difference is Scindo does more damage to Infested (slashing). Fragor does more damage to Grineer (armor ignore). Both have a large AoE knockdown radius on jumping attacks. The swing speed is slow for both, though I believe slower for Scindo - but honestly it's a marginal difference.

 

But it is a very fair point to mention that all charged attacks ignore armor. So the Fragor's armor ignore only really matters if you use regular melee a lot. Because I don't use normal melee much with a heavy weapon, I prefer Scindo.

 

Your milage may vary. Normal melee can be quite good with the heavy weapons, since they hit in wide sweeping arcs.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Acyl

[Marbhachir]

Fragor 1 shots infested anyway, so I think the 200% bonus from scindo is just overkill once you have leveled up enough mods.

 

Fragor will also 1 hit grineer (heavy and ancients might take 2 of high level) with a jump attack. If you run into a huge group of grineer, its way faster (and safer because of knockdown) to jump attack them once or twice than it is to charge up a scindo 3-4 times to hit them all (much smaller radius then fragor jump attack). Sure you can knock down with scindos jump too, but on gineer, you have to do it like 5 times to kill vs the fragor doing it once or twice due to armor ignore.

 

Also, rollers have high armor, so fragor hands down beats out scindo for killing them. Just 1 or 2 jump attacks will kill all rollers in a pretty wide radius. When I try to do the same which scindo, I have do do it like 4-5 times and hope they arent on the fringe of the AOE were the damage is miniscule.

[Shinnyshin]

Scindo and Gram are both much better than Fragor, because you should be using them primarily with charged attacks which ignore armour anyway.

 

The go-to attack players will be using with heavy weapons is the dash-slide attack.  The Fragor already 1-shots chargers no matter what, so 200%+ to Infested on the other weapons is absolutely meaningless.  I vastly prefer the Fragor for these reasons.

 

1) Armor Ignore on Jump Attack.  This is huge.  Dat AoE.

2) Armor Ignore on Slide-Spin-Attack.  This is huge.  You 1-shot pretty much every non-miniboss Grinneer in the game even before mods.

 

And...that's mostly it.  But you don't want to have to hit things after you dash-attack them.  1-shotting on that is a huge deal.  And most of the Fragor's disadvantages compared to its peers are ignored once you realize chargers die anyways and that you're primarily dash-attacking vs everything but minibosses and bosses.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Shinnyshin

[Zyfe3rX]

Get Fragor and the weird looking skin for it ! Its super fast and can rip off the grineers.

For infested, i suggested getting Dual Ether Swords , since its fast and deals 3x dmg to everthing !

 

And to who ever posted about gram being good, is entirely wrong.

 

GRAM is a crap !, there are waaay better weapons out there !

Edited April 24, 2013 by Zyfe3rX

[Whirrun]

I hear Fragors AoE knockdown with an ice element mod is pretty sweet

This ^^

[Luociano]

Ty everyone =) i think i will go with Fragor =)

[Darzk]

Fragor 1 shots infested anyway, so I think the 200% bonus from scindo is just overkill once you have leveled up enough mods.

The Fragor already 1-shots chargers no matter what, so 200%+ to Infested on the other weapons is absolutely meaningless.  I vastly prefer the Fragor for these reasons.

 

1) Armor Ignore on Jump Attack.  This is huge.  Dat AoE.

2) Armor Ignore on Slide-Spin-Attack.  This is huge.  You 1-shot pretty much every non-miniboss Grinneer in the game even before mods.

 

So very blatantly untrue against endgame Infected. While Chargers may die from one shot on, like, Jupiter, a fully (properly) modded (and potatoed) Scindo takes 2-3 regular swings to take out lesser Infected at later waves of Eris and Pluto endless defense. A Fragor would thus take 8-9 swings, in other words, utterly useless. Scindo can still take out a runner before it explodes without having to use charge attacks.

 

1) Jump attacks can still OSK lesser infected at higher levels with Scindo, Fragor's wont. Jump attacks from either weapon will deal the same damage to shielded targets (Corpus, Grineer Heavies)

2) Slide attacks can OSK lesser infected at higher levels with Scindo, Fragor's wont. Scindo will still do enough dmg on a slide attack to OSK midlevel grineer, high wave Ceres defense mission possibly not.

3) Execute for sure ignores armor, so a knockdown->execute combo will deal the same damage on both weapons, and set up a charge that will deal the same damage to Ancients, but Scindo's will instantly gib nearby lesser Infected while Fragor may not (but likely will)

 

Given that execute ignores armor, I'm at least curious to double check if other special attacks do as well. I know that Grineer on the Ceres Mobile Defense Mission (safe to call them the endgame Grineer as they have better returns than any Endless Defense) are OSKable with a slide attack from my Scindo. I generally don't bother with jump attacks against anything but heavies, which are shielded and thus wouldnt take more damage from the Fragor anyways.

 

Jump attack radius is the same on Scindo and Fragor, and deals the same damage to unarmored units, and deals the same elemental effects (and ele damage) to all targets.

[Darzk]

Actually the damage differences aren't nearly as large as people seem to think. Elemental effects are based off the modified damage before armor or the slashing bonus applies, so the elemental damage done per swing is identical for both weapons.

 

Basically it boils down to (with 42% pressure point).

 

Furax does 71 normal damage/swing to Grineer/Ancients

Scindo does 24 normal damage/swing to Grineer/Ancients

=Furax does 47 more damage to Grineer/Ancients

 

Furax does 71 normal damage/swing to Infested normals

Scindo does 213 normal damage/swing to Infested normals

=Scindo does 142 more damage to Infested normals

 

Thats basically the core of the matter.

 

However, hitting multiple targets reduces the damage done to each by some %age. Being staggered prevents the use of charged attacks reliably. Jump attacks are most valuable when swarmed by many enemies.

 

IMO you're much more likely to use regular and jump attacks against Infested, while Grineer/Corpus will generally be fought using charged attacks and slide attacks. Given there's no disadvantage to using the Scindo in the above manner, while Fragor definitely suffers while facing Infested...

Edited April 25, 2013 by Darzk

[dEEkAy2k9]

all this talk about those heavy weapons should only be used for chargins really annoys me.

 

i am using a scindo and i am mainly using it with normal attacks. why? because it's a goddamn heavy weapon. i cannot get knocked away by the explosions of those infested suicide guys (runners) and i cannot be knocked away by the hounds. only things that can knock me over while i am swinging around are ancients, bosses, heavy gunners (and those alike) and chargers with their charge.

 

i really enjoy swinging my scindo through multiple enemies while standing in their middle. no chance for charge attacking there. if you really need charge attacks then do it and charge. it's all a matter of preference.

 

one thing should be noted about the heavy weapons (well two things).

they are slow and THEY SHAKE THE SCREEN LIKE NO TOMORROW. your teammates will hate you if you are swinging your scindo right next to them and they are using something like the paris or the snipetron, basically anything you have to aim.

[Eltoshan]

Get Fragor and the weird looking skin for it ! Its super fast and can rip off the grineers.

For infested, i suggested getting Dual Ether Swords , since its fast and deals 3x dmg to everthing !

 

And to who ever posted about gram being good, is entirely wrong.

 

GRAM is a crap !, there are waaay better weapons out there !

Gram is a perfectly good two-hander if you're calling it crap I don't think you've actually used it, or were trying to use it with normal attacks and not charged attacks.

[Johto]

why not just get dual ethers for charge attacking?

[Worira]

all this talk about those heavy weapons should only be used for chargins really annoys me.

 

i am using a scindo and i am mainly using it with normal attacks. why? because it's a goddamn heavy weapon. i cannot get knocked away by the explosions of those infested suicide guys (runners) and i cannot be knocked away by the hounds. only things that can knock me over while i am swinging around are ancients, bosses, heavy gunners (and those alike) and chargers with their charge.

 

i really enjoy swinging my scindo through multiple enemies while standing in their middle. no chance for charge attacking there. if you really need charge attacks then do it and charge. it's all a matter of preference.

 

one thing should be noted about the heavy weapons (well two things).

they are slow and THEY SHAKE THE SCREEN LIKE NO TOMORROW. your teammates will hate you if you are swinging your scindo right next to them and they are using something like the paris or the snipetron, basically anything you have to aim.

 

The heavy weapons all have uninterruptible  charge attacks. It's one of their major benefits.

[Darzk]

The heavy weapons all have uninterruptible  charge attacks. It's one of their major benefits.

 

You can still be staggered by a charger melee attack or exploding runner, and the charge attack will be interrupted. At least during the first half of the swing. You wont be staggered while auto-attacking.

[Marbhachir]

Given that execute ignores armor, I'm at least curious to double check if other special attacks do as well.

 

I haven't tested my scindo in a few patches, but last I checked, execute did not ignore armor. On heavy grineer, my fragor jump attack and execute was always enough for a kill. On the same level of grineer, id have to do it twice (jump attack, execute, jump attack, execute). This was a good test (I cant remember what level it was on anymore) but for both the scindo and the fragor, the shields were knocked out by the jump attack, and a nearly full bar of health was left afterwards. It was obvious that the fragors execute was hitting for a ton more damage on grineer heavy HP, with the same mods and level of grineer.

[Marbhachir]

So very blatantly untrue against endgame Infected. While Chargers may die from one shot on, like, Jupiter, a fully (properly) modded (and potatoed) Scindo takes 2-3 regular swings to take out lesser Infected at later waves of Eris and Pluto endless defense. A Fragor would thus take 8-9 swings, in other words, utterly useless. Scindo can still take out a runner before it explodes without having to use charge attacks.

 

1) Jump attacks can still OSK lesser infected at higher levels with Scindo, Fragor's wont. Jump attacks from either weapon will deal the same damage to shielded targets (Corpus, Grineer Heavies)

2) Slide attacks can OSK lesser infected at higher levels with Scindo, Fragor's wont. Scindo will still do enough dmg on a slide attack to OSK midlevel grineer, high wave Ceres defense mission possibly not.

 

 

So much wrong information. I just now ran a pluto with invested to test this because I havent played in a while and I wasnt sure if my claims based on earlier play were correct. Against level 50 infested, using a maxed (and I mean maxed) fragor.

 

2 shots ancients with charge, 1 shots everthing else. So your claim that fragor will take 8-9 hits? completely wrong. And this was without using invis. When I go invis, I 1 shot those ancients, (even before red crits). Even if I was surrounded by infested to reduce the aoe damage of each swing, I'd still be 1 shotting trash and 3 shotting ancients.

 

I OSKed lesser infested with my jump attack and slide attack just now using fragor in the same mission. The infested on the outter edge of the aoe will need a 2nd jump attack. Regular attacks kill 2 shot chargers/runners on pluto.

 

So all of your information regarding fragor in points 1 and 2 is completely off. So either you never tried it at high level with maxed mods and are just making things up, or just didnt mod right.

[Darzk]

I haven't tested my scindo in a few patches, but last I checked, execute did not ignore armor. On heavy grineer, my fragor jump attack and execute was always enough for a kill. On the same level of grineer, id have to do it twice (jump attack, execute, jump attack, execute). This was a good test (I cant remember what level it was on anymore) but for both the scindo and the fragor, the shields were knocked out by the jump attack, and a nearly full bar of health was left afterwards. It was obvious that the fragors execute was hitting for a ton more damage on grineer heavy HP, with the same mods and level of grineer.

 

For sure, Execute ignores armor. Perhaps the jump attack was doing just enough more damage on Fragor to make the extra attack on Scindo nessecary.

 

Edit:

Execute on armored Ancient:

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/885232416155620714/E29396E4757607A4236371C5CD

 

Execute on unarmored Charger (should be more than x3 if armor is reducing execute damage)

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/885232416155617848/83DCB3757FCFB8D8F8BFAB552A6E1A617B308C0B/

 

Execute on Grineer Bombard

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/885232416155756074/938E034B47B148A337F24F86FA941FCA76DC0FFF/

 

Execute on Grineer Sawman

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/885232416155763620/50750E2B5DF61CBC6E79889207DDC6

 

 

As for the anti-Infested stuff, I was talking about regular swings, not charge attacks. OFC you're OSKing lesser Infested with charge attacks. Also, by 'endgame', I mean wave 20+ on Eris or Pluto, the only kind of challenge the game has for fully leveled (and supercharged) frames. So level 50 would be the bare minimum before the difference start to shine in that particular scenario. I'd imagine auto-attacking a crowd of lesser Infested would be pointless with the Fragor even at lower levels tho, while Scindo can do so with ease.

 

 

Edit2: Seems slide and jump attack damage IS mitigated by armor, and gets drastically reduced at higher levels.

 

Don't bring a Scindo to a Grineer mission.

That said, don't bring a Fragor to an Infested mission if you intend to use AA's, or effectively deal with high level trash (Endless Defense). And Scindo AA's are by far the easiest way to clear a pack of chargers.

 

I must conclude that Fragor > Scindo if you frequently use slide/jump attacks (which you should) for Grineer missions.

 

I remain adamant that Scindo>Fragor for infested missions, simply b/c speccing for AA's is much faster for clearing groups of Lessers.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Darzk