Please,explain Me How Pvp Can Ruin This Game

[Ryanshow]

lol,this is the community of this game? everyone attack everyone? i started this thread to speak of possibilities. isn't my job,i'm the player and i would like to help Devs

 

There was no attack in my statements. I asked you two questions and posed to you some wisdom of software engineering. If you interpreted those as attacks I would insist that you felt threatened by facts.

 

Speaking of possibilities without any means to achieve them is faith. Problem is programs don't run on faith, they run on code. So yah if you're going to spout off on how PVP could work you should back it up with *HOW* it would work.

 

You don't help the devs by telling them 'I want PVP' They already know that. It is in the FAQ. If you have a unique idea on a path to get to PVP that would be actually helping them.

 

I am not trying to say PVP would ruin the game. What I am saying is that there is

   A. There is no clear path to it.

   B. It would take work to get there, and the devs already have their hands full.

 

Therefore. No PVP for now. Not without an easy path to it.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Ryanshow

[Tetsmeha]

How would you balance out Loki going invis constantly, rhino going invulnerable for 20 seconds, and trinity making it so that she hurts you and if you hurt her you just hurt yourself?

 

Increase energy costs or put a cooldown on it? It's pretty simple and effective.

[Paschymat]

A decent enough idea while still sticking to the PvE nature. This is a nice compromise to both groups.

 

that was i talking about,not necessarily a direct PVP (warframe fight)

[wolfenstian]

From what I have gathered from numerous PvP posts it would work something like this.

 

1. PvP would take place on PvP only maps

2. PvP would have seperate loadout. Which means when you select a pvp game it would clear your mods on warframes and clear your weapons. no pve weapons in pvp.

3. Devs would introduce pvp only mods with different stats for both weapons and warframes.

4. You would start with a new frame "mod wise" at level 30.

5 PvP mods and weapons would be "sold" in a special pvp store for a strictly pvp currency(we will call it domination points). (no plat, no credits) pvp mods/weapons could not be used in pve.

6. You would be matched up by "mod points slotted", for fair pvp. say a 7 mod point spread. or whatever.

7. Plat could be spent in the pvp store to buy weapon skins and warframe customization skins. this would be the only thing that could be taken out of pvp. they would have 0 effect on stats.

 

You would balance through the pvp mods.

 

You can come up with whatever system you want to keep folks playing like ranks or whatever.

 

The only downside I see with this is the time it would take away from devs who are working on pve. That is a huge issue, and I leave it up to everyones opinion as to whether it's worth it or not.

 

Personally, I could care less either way.

 

The problem with that is that it takes a lot of manpower and time out of what they have. With that time they could do a million other things to make PvE even better, but instead make a mode that only a part of the community wants. It is not a bad idea, but it is also not the time, maybe once everything is done with then this would be good.

[Ryanshow]

Whoever down voted this guy needs a good kick in the balls.

 

OP complains about people attacking other people in the community.

 

You support him by suggesting violence against those who disagree.

 

Oh the irony.

 

Post of the day.

[Paschymat]

There was no attack in my statements. I asked you two questions and posed to you some wisdom of software engineering. If you interpreted those as attacks I would insist that you felt threatened by facts.

 

Speaking of possibilities without any means to achieve them is faith. Problem is programs don't run on faith, they run on code. So yah if you're going to spout off on how PVP could work you should back it up with *HOW* it would work.

 

You don't help the devs by telling them 'I want PVP' They already know that. It is in the FAQ. If you have a unique idea on a path to get to PVP that would be actually helping them.

 

I am not trying to say PVP would ruin the game. What I am saying is that there is

   A. There is no clear path to it.

   B. It would take work to get there, and the devs already have their hands full.

 

Therefore. No PVP for now. Not without an easy path to it.

read all what i wrote until now,and you'll realize i agree with you

[Thingofmyth]

that's like what i would like to see in game,something that gives variety...suggest it to devs!

I sent it to rebecca. which other DE should I send it to?

[wolfenstian]

I sent it to rebecca. which other DE should I send it to?

 

DE_Steve was nice when I talked to him, very understanding.

[Tetsmeha]

From what I have gathered from numerous PvP posts it would work something like this.

 

1. PvP would take place on PvP only maps

2. PvP would have seperate loadout. Which means when you select a pvp game it would clear your mods on warframes and clear your weapons. no pve weapons in pvp.

3. Devs would introduce pvp only mods with different stats for both weapons and warframes.

4. You would start with a new frame "mod wise" at level 30.

5 PvP mods and weapons would be "sold" in a special pvp store for a strictly pvp currency(we will call it domination points). (no plat, no credits) pvp mods/weapons could not be used in pve.

6. You would be matched up by "mod points slotted", for fair pvp. say a 7 mod point spread. or whatever.

7. Plat could be spent in the pvp store to buy weapon skins and warframe customization skins. this would be the only thing that could be taken out of pvp. they would have 0 effect on stats.

 

You would balance through the pvp mods.

 

You can come up with whatever system you want to keep folks playing like ranks or whatever.

 

The only downside I see with this is the time it would take away from devs who are working on pve. That is a huge issue, and I leave it up to everyones opinion as to whether it's worth it or not.

 

Personally, I could care less either way.

 

Finally someone gets it. My only gripe with this is having PVP mods. Why not just standardize energy levels and make the combat all about skill?

The only downside I see to this is having to manage the dev team around so that there's a team for balancing and adding stuff to PVE, and another for PVP balancing. Doing PvP of any sort right now would ultimately slow down the production of Warframe as it's advertised. But these ideas are something to hold and look at when PvP is even thought about.

[Ryanshow]

Lmao at all the posts thinking PvP stats would be synonymous with PvE stats.

 

ITT: People who don't want PvP don't actually have no idea on how to design a PvP system outside of PVE.

 

Or perhaps

 

ITT people who realize that designing an entirely new system would take time and effort.

 

And perhaps taking that on before the original product is finished is not a sound decision.

 

[Tetsmeha]

Or perhaps

 

ITT people who realize that designing an entirely new system would take time and effort.

 

And perhaps taking that on before the original product is finished is not a sound decision.

 

 

Wow really? Cause literally no one in this thread said PvP should be done right now. Everyone discussed "if PvP were to be implemented, this is how it should be done".

[Thingofmyth]

From what I have gathered from numerous PvP posts it would work something like this.

 

1. PvP would take place on PvP only maps

2. PvP would have seperate loadout. Which means when you select a pvp game it would clear your mods on warframes and clear your weapons. no pve weapons in pvp.

3. Devs would introduce pvp only mods with different stats for both weapons and warframes.

4. You would start with a new frame "mod wise" at level 30.

5 PvP mods and weapons would be "sold" in a special pvp store for a strictly pvp currency(we will call it domination points). (no plat, no credits) pvp mods/weapons could not be used in pve.

6. You would be matched up by "mod points slotted", for fair pvp. say a 7 mod point spread. or whatever.

7. Plat could be spent in the pvp store to buy weapon skins and warframe customization skins. this would be the only thing that could be taken out of pvp. they would have 0 effect on stats.

 

You would balance through the pvp mods.

 

You can come up with whatever system you want to keep folks playing like ranks or whatever.

 

The only downside I see with this is the time it would take away from devs who are working on pve. That is a huge issue, and I leave it up to everyones opinion as to whether it's worth it or not.

 

Personally, I could care less either way.

Look at this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/34339-gamemode-competitive-defense/ It would be a much easier way of including pvp.

[Thingofmyth]

DE_Steve was nice when I talked to him, very understanding.

okay. sent one out to him too

[Tetsmeha]

-snip- wrong thread

Edited April 24, 2013 by Tetsmeha

[Effusion-]

I'm generally a big fan of pvp, although I'm not the highly competitive type.  I think warframe would be a great game for interesting pvp with its melee/shooter hybrid system and movement mechanics (frankly the movement system feels like it's oriented toward pvp, where it might actually mess up your enemy's aim more than your own).  However, the game still needs a lot of work on pve and core mechanics.  I think it's more sensible to start off by focusing on game quality before variety because making changes to fundamental aspects of the game becomes more complex with each gameplay system the changes impact.  If you get the basics solidified first you can then build your additional systems around it without having to worry as much about impacting your other systems that branch out in different directions (eg, get the movement system working as indended and then base PvP off of that rather than having to change the movement system because of PvP, and then as a result having to change PvE to work with it, which may then create the need to change the movement system further, which then bounces back to PvP... and so on).

 

So, I agree that PvP should stay on the back burner for now.  I think it would be a great thing to implement as a post-release big update/expansion type of feature.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Effusion-

[Xtorma]

Look at this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/34339-gamemode-competitive-defense/ It would be a much easier way of including pvp.

If they do include pvp at some future point, they might as well give pvp players what they want, and that is to blast each other into oblivion. This could be one of the pvp modes though. Anything like what we suggested would be so far down the road from now, I doubt i'll even be playing when and if they implement it. There are no long term golas in this game yet, so maxing everything will not take much time for me, and i'll move on after that probably.  

[Ryanshow]

Wow really? Cause literally no one in this thread said PvP should be done right now. Everyone discussed "if PvP were to be implemented, this is how it should be done".

 

*sigh*

 

 You said

Lmao at all the posts thinking PvP stats would be synonymous with PvE stats.

 

ITT: People who don't want PvP don't actually have no idea on how to design a PvP system outside of PVE.

 

 and I said no its not that we don't have an idea of how, we're just saying "not now"

 

And no this thread did not start off with declarations of how it should be done. Just that "it should be done". There were no suggestions for how. Just OP spouting off that it should happen. Which doesn't really help.

 

So yes we responded with "not now".

 

But you interpreted that as we don't know how to design a system. And I tried to correct that notion.

 

Get it?

[Heartsatyr]

*sigh*

 

 You said

 

 and I said no its not that we don't have an idea of how, we're just saying "not now"

 

And no this thread did not start off with declarations of how it should be done. Just that "it should be done". There were no suggestions for how. Just OP spouting off that it should happen. Which doesn't really help.

 

So yes we responded with "not now".

 

But you interpreted that as we don't know how to design a system. And I tried to correct that notion.

 

Get it?

I'm liking this. As much as I'd love a PvP system to be implemented, a balanced system would take a ton of time and resources. This game is primarily a PvE game and should stay that way until everything is perfectly polished. I'll be one excited man when it finally drops, but until then I'm happy with good old PvE Warframe.  

[Tetsmeha]

*sigh*

 

 You said

 

 and I said no its not that we don't have an idea of how, we're just saying "not now"

 

And no this thread did not start off with declarations of how it should be done. Just that "it should be done". There were no suggestions for how. Just OP spouting off that it should happen. Which doesn't really help.

 

So yes we responded with "not now".

 

But you interpreted that as we don't know how to design a system. And I tried to correct that notion.

 

Get it?

 

Ok let me reiterate my statement. Those people who were saying PvP would be imbalanced have no idea how to create a balanced PvP system. That much is obvious.

 

First, there was no declaration of why pvp should be done now. The OP asked why would pvp ruin Warframe. And people responded accordingly. It could be that he hasn't read enough, or there hasn't been a clear and concise answer that he can understand easily. We won't know and shouldn't judge him.

 

Secondly, at the 2nd page the discussion turned to how pvp should be done. And thus that's where the direction of this thread followed. Why would suggestions ever be and unwise decision to consider just because the current product is unfinished?

[RicHSAD]

Creating a PvP mode would be no simple task as the game is not balanced for it at all. A pvp version of this game would be an almost completely different game and just creating it would require a lot of manpower. You also have to consider all the time that DE would have to sink into the mode to keep it balanced.

Edited April 24, 2013 by RicHSAD

[Dusklite]

*sigh*

 

 You said

 

 and I said no its not that we don't have an idea of how, we're just saying "not now"

 

And no this thread did not start off with declarations of how it should be done. Just that "it should be done". There were no suggestions for how. Just OP spouting off that it should happen. Which doesn't really help.

 

So yes we responded with "not now".

 

But you interpreted that as we don't know how to design a system. And I tried to correct that notion.

 

Get it?

I said the same thing: "I don't care, maybe later, not now, read the FAQ" and all I get are downvotes. It's true that any innocent inquisition or neutral position into the matter is attacked and totally suppressed. Like in a totalitarian regime.

 

Although I'm totally indifferent (= neutral) to the matter and even stated that I'm somewhat shocked as to how a PvE community can be so toxic and hateful in general.

 

I think a mod should close this topic before a flamewar sparked out of TL;DR and hate towards open-minded people gets out of control.

 

Peace out.

 

edit: Okay, that sounded if I was only referring to my own post. That wasn't intended. There's a lot of reasonable people getting attacked for no reason here. I've actually read all of it. I'm a little disappointed in the attitude displayed here. That's all.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Dusklite

[MetalGerbil]

i cant count the number of game types i have seen disappear thanks to PVP being mandatory in games.

 

think of all the warframes we have now. and think of all the possible warframes that might come our way. and think of how completely impossible it would be to balance them. people demand that their frame of choice can fight any other frame 1v1. if they dont have that the game is garbage. 

 

the MMORPG holy trinity (tank/healer/DPS) use to be a vast variety of classes which included support, situational classes and jack-of-all-trades. now many of the main MMOs have completely forsaken even THAT and just have "one hybrid class". where are the games that had tons of variety? where are your loki classes that have no damage skill what so ever in pvp games? where is the possibility for and endless array of classes or introducing entire new roles without braking player vs player balance? 

 

look at games like LoL where people constantly scream for balance in a massive jigsaw puzzle that looks ready to collapse in on itself. where even a minor change on one champion spells disaster for the meta game on other seemingly unrelated champions which are then considered OP or useless. 

 

or have a look at games like planetside 2 where even the massive numbers involved cant escape unit to unit balance or race to race balance.

 

not to mention the number of games that try to separate pvp and pve by making skills do different things in either situation. forcing developers to balance each skill twice and players having to learn each skill twice for a different scenario.

 

if you look at what this game is turning into and thing "this would be great with pvp" then you fail to realize that the game wouldn't even be in alpha if they would have taken the time, money and effort to get a properly working pvp system in. not to mention we probably wouldn't have as many warframes, or faction, or weapons or much of anything else for that matter.

 

they have never said that wouldn't add i think. if they did then thats fine, i have plenty of other pvp games i can play.

 

why WOULD i want pvp in this game? its everywhere else. how often does a game like this come along? with its design and graphics and an emphasis on things other games ignore? when they are too busy relying on pvp to keep people playing?

 

i love pvp, but i dont need it here. and if the devs say its helping them make a better game i ok with it being left out.

[Sophax]

It can't if done right. Its just a mental prison people don't want to escape from. Its like voting for Bush two years in a row out of fear and ignorance.

[stacey69]

The balance for pvp would be awful as it stands atm. Maybe one day nearer realese they will spend time balancing for a pvp update, who knows. atm it just would be awful and tbh i prefer pve to pvp atm so im happy as it is. I know you didnt wanna hear it but go play something else:) or be really patient and maybe one day it will come.

[TunaMayo]

I have already posted on a similar thread to this but i shall repeat myself.

 

PVP would require sacrificing the current dedication to the PVE that we have as DE is not a AAA company and therefore doesn't have the resources to focus on both play styles which I am sure no one wants to see.

 

Due to the large amount of requests, yes DE is considering it, but please stop pushing for it in Beta. I would like to see more frames, more maps, more factions, more weapons, more solar systems and an all round more polished game and balanced frames before I even want to consider PVP.

 

My point is, warframe was developed around PVE and therefore that should be the main focus of the game and should be finished before PVP enters the mind. Multiple games have been ruined as PVP has required too much of the games attention so that the main game is lackluster.

 

A PVP element could be nice, but it would work best as an add on to the main game with frames that were designed for PVP only in maps that were PVP only. That way current frames would not have to undergo the nerfbat in PVE for them to be playable in PVP and more PVP friendly maps could be designed.