Perma-Banned Already, It's A Bit Sensitive

[Shinobi_no_Kami]

Possibly, but why debate it at all? There are no facts here. There is a statement from someone that might or might have been banned, possibly for the reasons they state, but possibly not.

It's your bandwidth, but "objectivity" based on hypotheticals is a mental exercise at best, and hysteria at worst.

Arrgh such logic! It burns! Please sir, stop with your objective and logical explanation of the whole situation. Please stop tainting the internet with such perfect logic! :P

[Shinobi_no_Kami]

Atlast a game where they realy ban cheaters for good!

If someone uses a cheat in any game then the chance is very high he uses it in all of them.

Ofc there is 1% chance the ban is wrong, the support will see that after a ticket.

 

I realy hope they stay like this, zero tolerance for cheaters!

Indeed the same thing happen to nude mods, when you use a nude mod in one game, you usually nude mod everything you get a hand on, even the six bit lara croft. /sarcasm

[SerosterPrime]

Last I checked, running software counts as using it. Maybe I wouldn't know being an ignorant Software Engineer and all...

Something you've failed to grasp is that it's exceedingly rare for a hacking software application to provide an API to allow for external programs to determine exactly what they're being used for/on. In fact that kind of goes against their very purpose. Furthermore running a constant memory-state-comparison is completely unfeasable on something like a game that actually requires some sort of responsiveness. With that stated the only safe thing to do is to detect that the offending software is running and react to it accordingly, which is what happened here.

Stop looking for loopholes where they don't exist and where you have little to no understanding of the subject's technical side.

Finally, glad to see that someone pointed this out.  You generally just cannot have one program examine the memory of another program to see what it's doing, so there'd be no way for Warframe to determine which game a cheat program is connected to.  And if you could it would be FAR more intrusive than just checking for running processes - although certainly it could be more accurate.  

 

The same technique could be used to check what you were looking at on your web browser.  I'm pretty sure no one wants software to be able to do that. 

[SerosterPrime]

I believe ultimately the question is:

Do we really want people to get auto-banned permanently for running applications in the background, not necessarily hooked into the client, that COULD be used to hack Warframe with?

 

If they are programs known to be used for cheating, and it is not possible to determine what the program is connected to then I think the answer is YES.

 

How hard is it to close down a program? 

[Brawl]

Possibly, but why debate it at all? There are no facts here. There is a statement from someone that might or might have been banned, possibly for the reasons they state, but possibly not.

It's your bandwidth, but "objectivity" based on hypotheticals is a mental exercise at best, and hysteria at worst.

I'm afraid you've missed the entire point of the discussion.

It's not wether the OP is lying or not, it's wether people should be banned in the situation he presents:

"Run a certain application in the background while playing Warframe --> Permanently banned."

 

Which then boils down to the question:

"Do we really want people to get auto-banned permanently for running applications in the background, not necessarily hooked into the client, that COULD be used to hack Warframe with?"

Edited April 25, 2013 by Brawl

[Kantazo]

 Do not run hacking programs while playing Warframe. You will be banned.

 

Straight from the update notes.

 

/thread.

 

^^^^ This

[Inihilus]

I'm afraid you've missed the entire point of the discussion.

It's not wether the OP is lying or not, it's wether people should be banned in the situation he presents:

"Run a certain application in the background while playing Warframe --> Permanently banned."

 

Which then boils down to the question:

"Do we really want people to get auto-banned permanently for running applications in the background, not necessarily hooked into the client, that COULD be used to hack Warframe with?"

 

The mistake you're making is based on the assumption that this has happened, or could happen. He could present a situation saying he was banned for speaking Flemish. Subsequent discussions on what languages should be permitted in game, whilst doubtless fascinating, would have no basis in reality if that ban didn't happen.

By all means debate whether the OPs situation would be bad, but it's empty debate without facts. The crux of the discussion is based on the premise that: "people...get auto-banned permanently for running applications in the background, not necessarily hooked into the client, that COULD be used to hack Warframe with" which is something that you don't know is possible, probable or actual, let alone something that has occurred.

 

The argument really boils down to: "do we want to argue about something we have no evidence of?" Again, it's your bandwidth, but it won't establish anything.

[Kantazo]

DERebecca posted

 

"

Update 7.8.1:

 

Additions:

- All Cheaters will now be Banned. No Exceptions!
Hacking/Cheating bans are now automatic. Our existing cheat/hack detection code that has been tracking hacks and is now configured to take action automatically now. Do not run hacking programs while playing Warframe. You will be banned."

[TheCarry]

ITT:

 

OP crys about being fairly banned for cheating.

[CaedesEnder]

ITT:

 

OP crys about being fairly banned for cheating.

 

tbf he wasnt crying, just raising the issue to get some feedback as he felt it unfair, hes already stated that he understands that rules where broken and will accept the ban if the appeal fails.

[TwipleXX]

I got zero sympathy for any cheater of any game. Even if ya didn`t cheat in this game, means nothing to me. I detest cheaters of any game,if you can not play within the rules and confines of a game you subscribe to,you have no business playing it. I wish all game companies would rock the cheater/hax player pool with an iron fist and zero tolerance.

[MOXY.]

Just a thought, but would running Notepad or making a New Folder in the game directory count as tampering with the files, AKA a perma-ban? I know I'm thinking in extremes, but that's a thought.

 

Also, there's a lot of talk about how cheaters are "scum of the earth". But it's how you use the cheats, because why are they there in the first place? Because people put them there to be used. I usually use cheats either when game testing, mod testing or simply to avoid unnecessary hassle in SP games. Cheat Engine is called that because it is a software that allows you to "debug" your game, since cheat is just another word to debug. It is not a hacking software. I'm fairly sure even if you tried to modify the values of your Warframe resources with the Cheat Engine, it wouldn't work since the values are stored externally rather than internally.

 

To summarize, everyone who ends up testing games they or someone else make WILL cheat because that's it's main functionality. What many people here are saying that those people who test games are scum. And I take offense to that.

[Skulliedoo]

Just a thought, but would running Notepad or making a New Folder in the game directory count as tampering with the files, AKA a perma-ban? I know I'm thinking in extremes, but that's a thought.

 

Also, there's a lot of talk about how cheaters are "scum of the earth". But it's how you use the cheats, because why are they there in the first place? Because people put them there to be used. I usually use cheats either when game testing, mod testing or simply to avoid unnecessary hassle in SP games. Cheat Engine is called that because it is a software that allows you to "debug" your game, since cheat is just another word to debug. It is not a hacking software. I'm fairly sure even if you tried to modify the values of your Warframe resources with the Cheat Engine, it wouldn't work since the values are stored externally rather than internally.

 

To summarize, everyone who ends up testing games they or someone else make WILL cheat because that's it's main functionality. What many people here are saying that those people who test games are scum. And I take offense to that.

There's a difference between cheat codes, and using CheatEngine or similar programs to alter memory usage to trick the game into believing you have or are able to do things you normally can't do or don't have.

[ShadowTail]

Ever thought of the fact that game developers might actually use these tools to check and/or verify the proper function of countermeasures in their applications/flash games/whatever ?

 

Just because someone runs such applications as CheatEngine does not automagically make them a cheater.

[Kantazo]

People read what the DE posted. NO CHEAT PROGRAM RUNNING IN THE BACKGROUND WHEN PLAYING WARFRAME YOU WILL BE BAN AUTOMATICALLY.

[WingsOfGryphin]

I think you are lying. 
Cheat Engine can only be detected if it Links to the process of the software that is protected. Warframe doesn't have power to sneak around your desktop to see if you are running cheat-engine. It simply detects if you are trying to attach something that can change data. 

So either you made a mistake and Linked with Warframe, or you are lying to get your account back.

[Kantazo]

I think you are lying. 

Cheat Engine can only be detected if it Links to the process of the software that is protected. Warframe doesn't have power to sneak around your desktop to see if you are running cheat-engine. It simply detects if you are trying to attach something that can change data. 

So either you made a mistake and Linked with Warframe, or you are lying to get your account back.

At last someone sees the truth.

[WingsOfGryphin]

Just a thought, but would running Notepad or making a New Folder in the game directory count as tampering with the files, AKA a perma-ban? I know I'm thinking in extremes, but that's a thought.

 

Also, there's a lot of talk about how cheaters are "scum of the earth". But it's how you use the cheats, because why are they there in the first place? Because people put them there to be used. I usually use cheats either when game testing, mod testing or simply to avoid unnecessary hassle in SP games. Cheat Engine is called that because it is a software that allows you to "debug" your game, since cheat is just another word to debug. It is not a hacking software. I'm fairly sure even if you tried to modify the values of your Warframe resources with the Cheat Engine, it wouldn't work since the values are stored externally rather than internally.

 

To summarize, everyone who ends up testing games they or someone else make WILL cheat because that's it's main functionality. What many people here are saying that those people who test games are scum. And I take offense to that.

Cheat Engine is 3rd party program. If you want to be legit cheater than you must use cheats that are provided by the game developers themselves. 

Oh wait.. Cheating is banned in this game. So your arguments is invalid. 

If they wanted testers to use all means or to test game with all the content unlocked then they would have provided players with those tools, but they wanted players to have a normal gaming experience and to give a feedback based on how the game will be played. 

Cheating in general is accepted if you are playing single player games. In MMO's games are designed to have that "effort-reward" effect. If there are cheaters that try to skip the effort, than every other player on that MMO get's decreased moral and they loose the will to play at all, just because there is someone that spits on your effort (effort is there because it makes reward for what it is - rewarding) . Cheaters in multiplayer games are ultimate scumbags, they destroy experience for themselves and others. If you want to cheat so badly, go do it where it's allowed. 

Edited April 25, 2013 by WingsOfGryphin

[Kantazo]

Why would you need an active cheating program running in your background unless you are trying to see if you can crack Warframe?

[Bearclaw]

If DE really bans people for just having Cheat Engine open then that's sad. I use CheatEngine to edit my player's stats in MyCareer for NBA 2K. It's a single player game, I just want to test some stuff out like having a really tall player or changing stats, I'm not harming anyone. But if I leave it open and play Warframe then I'm banned?

 

There's plenty of reasons to use CheatEngine, some of them are malicious and some of them are legit and don't harm anyone.

 

Why not use VAC or something similar to VAC? Only scan the game's core files and if there's something wrong then ban, but don't ban just because of things running on a computer that's completely unrelated to the game.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Bearclaw

[Blatantfool]

If DE really bans people for just having Cheat Engine open then that's sad. I use CheatEngine to edit my player's stats in MyCareer for NBA 2K. It's a single player game, I just want to test some stuff out like having a really tall player or changing stats, I'm not harming anyone. But if I leave it open and play Warframe then I'm banned?

 

There's plenty of reasons to use CheatEngine, some of them are malicious and some of them are legit and don't harm anyone.

 

 You should know better then to run a program like that at the same time as Warframe. 

[GottFaust]

If DE really bans people for just having Cheat Engine open then that's sad. I use CheatEngine to edit my player's stats in MyCareer for NBA 2K. It's a single player game, I just want to test some stuff out like having a really tall player or changing stats, I'm not harming anyone. But if I leave it open and play Warframe then I'm banned?

There's plenty of reasons to use CheatEngine, some of them are malicious and some of them are legit and don't harm anyone.

Why not use VAC or something similar to VAC? Only scan the game's core files and if there's something wrong then ban, but don't ban just because of things running on a computer that's completely unrelated to the game.

Here's an easy solution: shut down CheatEngine before you start Warframe, don't start it while Warframe is running, and you won't be banned. Problem solved.

[Bearclaw]

Here's an easy solution: shut down CheatEngine before you start Warframe, don't start it while Warframe is running, and you won't be banned. Problem solved.

It would be better if DE put in a better effort for its cheat detection other than to just detect that programs the player is running. It would generate a lot of false positives.

[Blatantfool]

It would be better if DE put in a better effort for its cheat detection other than to just detect that programs the player is running. It would generate a lot of false positives.

 

  No, it really would just be better if you used a dose of common sense and didn't run that stuff while you have Warframe on.

 

 See, getting banned for cheat engine isn't a false positive. It is a positive positive. That program IS flagged. Anyone getting banned for it isn't being banned randomly.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Kantazo]

Easy daisy don't hack the game or try to do it and you will be fine.