Continued Exclusive Gifts To Founders Makes Us Feel A Bit Left Out

[Kruglov]

I'm amazed this thread exists.

Talk about entitlement.

[-FV-Wsocks]

I'm amazed this thread exists.

Talk about entitlement.

 

I don't understand how someone could possibly feel that this is in any way an entitlement post without first coming into the topic with a bad attitude or misconceptions about the topic. No one is demanding anything or claiming that they deserve something. I've never said that 'this is rightfully ours!' It has not been said that this has to  or must be done. That it's existence is somehow an injustice. I've brought up concerns that I believe are valid but my belief is not going to be enough to create change. If nothing comes of this post, if DE decides that the concerns are indeed meritless, I won't be upset or push the issue any farther. I won't create another thread because I feel so very entitled and am outraged that something wasn't done to fulfil my obvious rights as a Tenno. If change comes as a result of this, maybe it will help people, maybe it won't. If change doesn't come, then everything remains the same and the only thing that will stop happening is people will stop attacking my moral character. 

The toxic dual mods already got added to Vor's droptable in T4.

 

Even Brakk and Detron are obtainable now, which is a huge community success.

 

I think there will be solutions... soon.

 

The re release of items is not the goal. It may be nice to see some of those items again but that's not the topic.

Azawarau hits the nail on the top.

 

There is no equality. This shouldn't sound arrogant, but I'm tired of justifying my founder status and the the stuff I got to a small group of people who just missed their chance.

 

OP says it's all cool and stuff, but what is the reason of existence for this topic then?

The topic is addressing the concern that some people may feel unintentionally underappreciated.  You're correct in believing that I think it's 'all cool and stuff.' I'm not claiming that something must be done. That this is somehow a slight against all Tenno who are not Founders. That we are outraged and demand change to satiate our envious desires, it's a request and a suggestion. There are many requests posted in the forums where the concerns are addressed in ways other than by using the included suggestion. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

No. Solutions won't ever come about that easy. Regarding limited time exclusives and special event-only gear and the such, the thing is that these marks people who have been continuously playing the game while leaving the people who came late to the party feeling neglected. It's not to say it's never been practiced and done out well but those are done in such a manner that it still ends up in the player's skill to use it (WoT is an example).

 

For this game, the issue is from multiple aspects of the game. Weapon stats being upgrades rather than side-grades. Mods giving exponential increases in performance, etc. It's undeniable that this game has tons of issues that it seems to hold itself on one foot with a very shaky foundation. So, again I will say that the solution won't ever come about that easy.

 

Also, I know this is off-topic and deserve it's own thread.

 

As much as I would like to have the Strun Wraith... I won't complain about it.

 

The problem does only exists when those event weapons are the strongest, which is not true. There are enough alternatives and the the basis for all wraith variants weren't the strongest either.

 

Latron is a lackluster, the prime variant is on par or better than the wraith.

Twinvipers Wraith are fun, but nothing for lategame due to huge ammo problems.

Gorgon Wraith... It's cool, but everyone with a Soma has everything he needs.

Strun Wraith... ok, it has a fluctuating history and even so it's not needed for any content.

 

So as far as I am concerned those weapons are just for fun/style.

 

What about all the badges? I have tons of them. I didn't left out any event since I started playing. So...

 

I wonder if other communities have similar people. GW2 for example is entirely timegated event driven and the casuals love it.

Edited November 17, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[noveltyhero]

Many games have exclusives for early players/backers but nowhere have I seen so much jealousy about it as I have in this playerbase. 

 

What is it with Warframe players!? 

 

Whenever I see someone with a "Veteran" title and Alpha Squad Camo in Planetside 2, I smile. When I encounter an original backer in Star Citizen who has a whole discounted fleet with Lifetime Insurance I feel like patting him on the back, I have neither but I can still be happy for them and I appreciate that they were there in the beginning and helped get the show on the road.

 

 

But warframe players, no, they point fingers, cry and play victim. 

Yeah I hate that too, whilst developers clearly show gratitude and you can tell there is a mutual relationship built there the founders to the rest of the community feel too segregated, almost like we are hated and despised for being who we are.

 

Know what it feels like? We are the titans and they are the Olympians trying to overthrow us, not a very nice feeling to get IMO :/

[ComfyOlivia]

Not a founder, here, btw.

 

I am all for the founders getting their exclusives and us non-founders simply not. In the beginning, they gave their money to a promising-looking game. They took the risk of giving their money to a company with hardly any background. They deserve almost any exclusive items they receive.

 

Now, the line should effectively be drawn at how effective the item is. If only the founders are able to use the best items in the game, that's where it becomes unfair. I know unfair is a big word to throw around, I personally hate using it. The world would have to be a ginormous pillow for everything to be fair. But, being able to access incredible items in a game such as warframe is what makes it so massive. Making that exclusive to founders would almost be company suicide.

 

DE knows this, so, rest assured. 

 

Personally, I get worked up over unfair systems quite easily. I have never gotten worked up by the founders' system. Why? Because it isn't unfair. Sure, you may miss out on cosmetics, items, and mods for those items, but there is not a single founders item that you can't either get the base item for, or get a better version of. Excal Prime? Get base excal or use one of the other 10 DPS frames. All of those exclusive weapons? Definitely not the best in the game.

[-FV-Wsocks]

Not a founder, here, btw.

 

I am all for the founders getting their exclusives and us non-founders simply not. In the beginning, they gave their money to a promising-looking game. They took the risk of giving their money to a company with hardly any background. They deserve almost any exclusive items they receive.

 

Now, the line should effectively be drawn at how effective the item is. If only the founders are able to use the best items in the game, that's where it becomes unfair. I know unfair is a big word to throw around, I personally hate using it. The world would have to be a ginormous pillow for everything to be fair. But, being able to access incredible items in a game such as warframe is what makes it so massive. Making that exclusive to founders would almost be company suicide.

 

DE knows this, so, rest assured. 

 

Personally, I get worked up over unfair systems quite easily. I have never gotten worked up by the founders' system. Why? Because it isn't unfair. Sure, you may miss out on cosmetics, items, and mods for those items, but there is not a single founders item that you can't either get the base item for, or get a better version of. Excal Prime? Get base excal or use one of the other 10 DPS frames. All of those exclusive weapons? Definitely not the best in the game.

No one is claiming that it's unfair that we can't access the Founders items or that it's unfair they continue to receive exclusive items. It's in the post and it's in the comments. 

[ComfyOlivia]

No one is claiming that it's unfair that we can't access the Founders items or that it's unfair they continue to receive exclusive items. It's in the post and it's in the comments. 

Sorry.

 

Not trying to flame, but what is the point of this thread then?

 

The feeling left out?

[SIDESTRE4M]

I don't understand how someone could possibly feel that this is in any way an entitlement post without first coming into the topic with a bad attitude or misconceptions about the topic. No one is demanding anything or claiming that they deserve something. I've never said that 'this is rightfully ours!' It has not been said that this has to  or must be done. That it's existence is somehow an injustice. I've brought up concerns that I believe are valid but my belief is not going to be enough to create change. If nothing comes of this post, if DE decides that the concerns are indeed meritless, I won't be upset or push the issue any farther. I won't create another thread because I feel so very entitled and am outraged that something wasn't done to fulfil my obvious rights as a Tenno. If change comes as a result of this, maybe it will help people, maybe it won't. If change doesn't come, then everything remains the same and the only thing that will stop happening is people will stop attacking my moral character. 

 

The re release of items is not the goal. It may be nice to see some of those items again but that's not the topic.

The topic is addressing the concern that some people may feel unintentionally underappreciated.  You're correct in believing that I think it's 'all cool and stuff.' I'm not claiming that something must be done. That this is somehow a slight against all Tenno who are not Founders. That we are outraged and demand change to satiate our envious desires, it's a request and a suggestion. There are many requests posted in the forums where the concerns are addressed in ways other than by using the included suggestion. 

Don't those people have their own voice?

This topic translates to me into:

There is a new sigil only the founders got and another founder whined about how a skana mod doesn't work on his skana prime, which is - to be right honest here - really bs. Both Skana and its prime version are such weak weapons and skana prime was stronger until now... well... talk about a meek battle.

 

Sorry.

 

Not trying to flame, but what is the point of this thread then?

 

The feeling left out?

Basically yes.

 

He essentially says, that he is neutral, but he expresses the opinion of people being not neutral.

 

I don't know anymore...

[ThePresident777]

Well, as a founder, I think I have some right to know what changes happen to the founder's package, in any way. DE could convey the changes to founder's packages through in game mail. Hmm, so this could be the start of a Founder's Sekret Societah!

Another possibility could be to spread the love so to speak and put a unique treat in each Prime Access, not availble via any other means. It could be something entirely subjective, such as a skin with a unique look that increases one aspect of an item while decreasing another aspect of the item in neutral way, such that the the change is entirely subjective, regardless of the magnitude. For instance, it could increase magazine size and reload time such that the S in DPS for the weapon does not change.

Edited November 17, 2014 by ThePresident777

[-FV-Wsocks]

Don't those people have their own voice?

This topic translates to me into:

There is a new sigil only the founders got and another founder whined about how a skana mod doesn't work on his skana prime, which is - to be right honest here - really bs. Both Skana and its prime version are such weak weapons and skana prime was stronger until now... well... talk about a meek battle.

You've come to the point that what the topic means and what you perceive it to mean, are two different things. 

 

Well, as a founder, I think I have some right to know what changes happen to the founder's package, in any way.  DE could convey the changes to founder's packages through in game mail.  Hmm, so this could be the start of a Founder's Sekret Societah!

People have suggested a Founders dedicated spoilers section in the patch notes to avoid completely leaving anything out. 

 

Sorry.

 

Not trying to flame, but what is the point of this thread then?

 

The feeling left out?

Not feeling left out in the sense that we don't have Founders exclusive items or that we won't get new sigils or mods for exclusive weapons. The point is that some people might feel more appreciated if the feeling of being left out didn't come from something they can't control. Are people left out of the Founders program? Yes, but it doesn't mean that they have to feel that their support is any less appreciated. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

You know, your title alone suggests a line of exclusives we are still getting, while in reality we are just talking about our badge that got duplicated in form of a sigil.

 

Really... ants got blown up to full grown elephants.

[(NSW)LilVanu]

I'm just going to post this which might help inform some people:

 

(This is not me saying that DE are doing this; but more of an example of why they shouldn't.)

 

 

Okay now I'll float back under the bridge I've been hiding under for the past few months.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Lilliannette

[-FV-Wsocks]

You know, your title alone suggests a line of exclusives we are still getting, while in reality we are just talking about our badge that got duplicated in form of a sigil.

 

Really... ants got blown up to full grown elephants.

I don't suppose you've ever heard of book covers.

I've repeatedly said that if this doesn't get any attention for DE I won't be upset because I'm not incredibly invested in it. It's not something I feel is outrageous or huge, elephant-esque, if you will. This is a proposal for a small change that could have a measurable impact. 

[Janzer]

This is not what the OP is talking about at all.

 

Fair enough. Thank you for that clarification. But, the OP didn't just get down to one point did he/she? No. The OP created a case for them self, rooted at the idea that they wanted the Founders Items in the FUTURE, to be removed from patch notes, that why the non-founders would not feel like less of contributors than Founders who, apparently go around flaunting their goods in everyone's faces.

 

I made more than a few points to back up and build up to my final point, parts of which were meant to point some balance and light on "facts" that were just not true. My final point, was: 

 

So the OP was merely saying, through a lot of paragraphs of build up:

"TL;DR Please allow the Founders access to new items in such a way as to not make the rest of us feel that our contributions are not appreciated. The request is to omit the addition of said items from public patch notes."

 

My response, after some paragraphs of build up:

"As far as your TL;DR comment, I think you're clearly feeling jealous, and expressing it, but in reality you just need to deal with....reality. This kind of stuff happens all the time. I didn't get certain items that I will never be able to get again. It is what it is."

 

The OP's "message to founders":

"A message to our Founders: Even we as players appreciate that you supported the game in it's earliest stages to allow it to become the thing we all know and love today, but we ask that you consider the fact that we were are not able to support the game in the way that you did because we did not discover it early enough. We all aspire to the level of recognition that your support has achieved in the eyes of the game developers, but we want you to know that we support and love this game as much as yourselves, and that we should not be held at fault for not contributing when you did. We are all of us just Tenno but certain founders that I've encountered hold in their hearts that they are in some way better than the rest of us for having supported the game earliest."

 

My response:

"As far as your message to Founders, I have utterly no idea how you come to the conclusion that you are being "held at fault" for anything. If you've encountered some braggarts that are Founders, guess what, they're probably like that with whatever they do in life. You can find a jerk or two among any crowd usually."

 

If you feel my post wasn't a good response to the OP at all, who am I to say it was? If you're going to go through my responses to make sure I'm absolutely on the exact message, I appreciate your attention to duty. You're the moderator, I'll follow your lead.

[SIDESTRE4M]

I don't suppose you've ever heard of book covers.

I've repeatedly said that if this doesn't get any attention for DE I won't be upset because I'm not incredibly invested in it. It's not something I feel is outrageous or huge, elephant-esque, if you will. This is a proposal for a small change that could have a measurable impact. 

 

I don't suppose you've heard of wrong book covers then, because the little difference between plural and singular is huge sometimes.

 

So what is it that you want? That DE doesn't forget the non-founders?

You mean they would ignore all that income from everyone who is paying for Platinum and Prime Access(edit: not founder pack:D)? Surely not.

Edited November 17, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Edgedemon]

ok just adding my 2 cents here

 

 I am speaking of course about the Founder Sigil and the adaptation of the Bright Purity mod to include the Skana Prime, a Founder exclusive weapon. While strolling through the forums, I saw a Founder expressing his displeasure with the fact that the new Bright Purity was incompatible with with the Skana prime. I thought it fair that this would be the case due to the 'Gilded Truth' mod specifying it's use only on the Burston Prime. With this precedent set, it seemed that the inability to use Bright Purity with the Skana Prime was an unfortunate reality that all Founders would have come to terms with.  To my surprise, the Skana Prime was included with the Skana for weapons able to use Bright Purity. As a non-Founder this now meant that no matter the power of my Skana with this mod, a Founder with the same mod would be given a greater advantage. 

OP you are referring to 2 different parts here 

 

the first is the "Founder Sigil" which i actually support, its cosmetic, it has no effect on the game whatsoever, and was actually easier to implement than the landmarks, now they can carry their Sigil as a badge of Honor just like i carry my Mastery Rank Sigil (which i was asking for in a thread just before it was implemented).

 

the Second is the "Bright Purity" and i think you have missed the point there, your "precedent" is comparing get a better gun so you can use its full power in Burston vs Burston Prime, against get rid of your founder Exclusive because even the regular free weapon is better in Skana vs Skana Prime.

 

replacing or discarding an exclusive item is not an option, it cannot be offered as an option ever, that's not how you behave with your supporters

 

 

I understand your feelings on this, it has been a year now, so I think maybe Prime Access buyers should also get special things too. The only thing that will happen in this game is that more and more Founders will leave. DE should also reward those who are supporting the game now, and not only the Founders imo.

I really don't appreciate your attempt to discount my entire argument as jealousy. I wish I could have been there when the Founders pack was available but I wasn't. Not many of us were. We'll probably never be happy about it but I think that we can reasonably request that we not be reminded of it when we do our best to support the game in it's current form by buying Prime Access. 

You can buy the Prime access accessory pack, which now includes the most awesome looking armor in game and is only found by supporting the game by buying that pack

 

No it wouldn't. 

You're using the same "Give people a different version of Excal.prime" idea that was being thrown around.

 

People want the Prime items/cosmetics not a knock off version.

Are you talking about my "Excalibur Proto"? because i love it, it looks great, now if you are asking for founders Primes you are wasting your time "Exclusive" is a hard word to bend

 

It still counts as a cosmetic does it not?
And yeah my mistake, I meant to say Founders items/cosmetics. Because the F. Sigil is only given to founders, which are exclusive to them only. 

 

Giving them a Prime Access sigil solves nothing as they want the items/gear related to the founders.

In his OP, he also says that he cannot get a certain augment because it is for the Skana prime, therefore rendering his chance at getting that weapon completely in the negative.

Actually he says that the same augment works better in Skana Prime(82 damage after buff) than in his Skana (70 damage after buff), but neither get Top Dog even buffed and since he couldn't get that weapon before, it actually changes nothing

 

To clarify,

 

 Are you asking for all player's who have supported Digital Extremes financially to just get a shout-out in patch notes, and receive a thank you goodie like a Prime access exclusive sigil, or perhaps a badge for contributing to DE staff after buying any prime access package, maybe a special badge with some sort of attachment showing "I supported DE by buying a 1000 platinum bundle"

 

Please simplify your topic,

Be short and brief so as current and future readers like myself can contribute to this post without confusion.

 

i have spent some money on this game myself, only did so after i had some time playing, i was sure i liked the game enough to stick around and had a discount on me, while i have spent more money on this game than i originally planned i have so far not reached the same amount they spent before knowing what the game would end up like, and for that they do deserve appreciation

[Edgedemon]

now  i am gonna enjoy your tears a little more 

 

[-FV-Wsocks]

SIDESTRE4M,

 

I'll mark you down for 'not in favor.'

[SIDESTRE4M]

SIDESTRE4M,

 

I'll mark you down for 'not in favor.'

 

^^

[FCNeonin]

This whole argument is silly. Founder perks were exclusive to Founders to persuade people to buy into the game in the early stages of development when it was just getting off the ground. Allowing other people to buy them now might make you feel good but completely devalues all the Founders out there. I guess you don't consider that though, me me me me me.

 

And as you may be able to tell, I'm not a Founder.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Einde
Hidden, because the image was kinda flamebaity.

[Zage23]

I thought this was going to be about how you'd like more opportunities to show your appreciation to DE and the great Warframe due to ignorance of the game when the founder's program was available.

 

No, do not hide anything.  Shower the founders and let everyone know.  This isn't politics.

Edited November 17, 2014 by MReaver

[Onida_a]

- snip -

I want a wallpaper of this, it is just too glorious.

[Don_T_Shoot]

Can't believe this thread is still going (and now I'm contributing to the problem!)

 

I say this as a non-Founder that I'm impressed with DE for continuing to show their appreciation to them and am in no way bothered by founder exclusives.  I'm somewhere between annoyed and offended that anyone *would* care.

 

This is probably "ageist" to say but  I strongly suspect people that are bothered by this are of a certain age group who were brought up to believe that everyone should get a trophy for everything.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Don_T_Shoot

[matrixEXO]

As much as I would like to have the Strun Wraith... I won't complain about it.

 

The problem does only exists when those event weapons are the strongest, which is not true. There are enough alternatives and the the basis for all wraith variants weren't the strongest either.

 

Latron is a lackluster, the prime variant is on par or better than the wraith.

Twinvipers Wraith are fun, but nothing for lategame due to huge ammo problems.

Gorgon Wraith... It's cool, but everyone with a Soma has everything he needs.

Strun Wraith... ok, it has a fluctuating history and even so it's not needed for any content.

 

So as far as I am concerned those weapons are just for fun/style.

 

What about all the badges? I have tons of them. I didn't left out any event since I started playing. So...

 

I wonder if other communities have similar people. GW2 for example is entirely timegated event driven and the casuals love it.

That's for me as well. I personally don't feel anything when I play because I'm late for the party so I deserve to not get those. But you know people. It will always come about that they will complain about things that seem so trivial to us. That being said, I personally am a fan of side-grades than upgrades because when it comes to upgrades you will get stuff that comes out 3 months later that makes the previous weapon obsolete. And when they decide to make unique weapons that are niche on it's own, people still gravitate towards the 'best' weapon (currently Boltor Prime). Fundamentally, it's the minor aspect of Vivergate: wanting the easiest or most lazy way out. Yeah, got off-topic here.

[MisterUltimate]

Can't believe this thread is still going (and now I'm contributing to the problem!)

 

I say this as a non-Founder that I'm impressed with DE for continuing to show their appreciation to them and am in no way bothered by founder exclusives.  I'm somewhere between annoyed and offended that anyone *would* care.

 

This probably "ageist" to say but  I strongly suspect people that are bothered by this are of a certain age group who were brought up to believe that everyone should get a trophy for everything.

I felt the same way. I tried to demostrate that DE doing anything about this problem was a slippery slope where the next dissatisfied player would want more, especially since hiding the information in anyway is impossible. But, for some reason when some have a bad feeling, they feel someone else is responsible for it, and that it's a problem to be solved. In this case, that DE is responsible for a player feeling left out due to circumstances far beyond DE's control.

I soon realized that the conversation wasn't going to progress no matter how much I tried to help it, and all I was doing was helping clutter the forums by bumping a thread that hasn't progressed beyond the idea of, "I don't want to know about things I can't have." (Hey look, I'm doing it again!)

I'm actually shocked that since the conversation doesn't seem to be moving forward that the topic isn't locked. Mods are usually quicker about keeping threads from retreading the same ground over and over. Oh well.