Continued Exclusive Gifts To Founders Makes Us Feel A Bit Left Out

[Temmron]

Everyones so mean and its just going the natural way of losing the main point of the topic and falling into debates about what one person said about the other that may or may not be the case that was approved to be approved by another persons approval off other things that were approved or disapproved of in previous comments

 

Now can we please get some sigils and design forum access Q.Q

 

*Edit* I like the word approve :)

Edited November 16, 2014 by Seyenas

[-FV-Wsocks]

You're doing it again. You're only aknowledging people who agree with you, and dismiss those who don't. I kept it civil. You obstinately refuse to admit that your point of view is just that : ONE point of view, and needs to be put in balance with the other way to see it.

You refuse to aknowledge me because I see the other side of the coin whereas you obviously refuse to. Have it your way then, no skin off my nose anyway. At least I tried to to make you understand that non Founders are not being underappreciated at all, and that giving Prime packs the same kind of treatment the Founder's pack received could be perceived as, just like you state, an underappreciation for Founders, because of what Foundership represents for them. I harbor no hard feelings toward you, i just wish you did the same.

Stepping into my shoes for a minute, is there any real point to argue with someone who clearly doesn't agree with you and never will for the sake of what? Humoring them? There are 7 pages of people who either agree or disagree with me and I've tried to respond to all of them, but when people start calling me narcissistic or claiming that I simply made this post for no other reason than because I feel inadequate, what more is there to discuss? I don't think it really helps anyone's case by going back and forth getting farther and farther off topic with each reply. 

 

I don't think that it's intentional to make anyone feel underappreciated or that anyone's support is more valuable than any other, but the way things are, a body can get kind of down thinking that they couldn't help as much as someone else did. I'm sure that DE appreciates every bit of support that they're given and that they wouldn't want anyone to feel left out.

My hope is that DE sees this and makes their own call about whether or not it really is an issue. I won't keep pressing it if the post starts to die and it appears that DE doesn't think of this as an issue. 

[Archistopheles]

design forum access

DE picks a select few each month based on your actions in the forum and in game.

[-FV-Wsocks]

Everyones so mean and its just going the natural way of losing the main point of the topic and falling into debates about what one person said about the other that may or may not be the case that was approved to be approved by another persons approval off other things that were approved or disapproved of in previous comments

 

Now can we please get some sigils and design forum access Q.Q

 

*Edit* I like the word approve :)

When we purchased the PA packages, we knew what we were getting. We have all the cosmetics or weapons that came with them and that's all we can really reasonably expect. Too many people purchase the PA to be considered for Design forum access. If they want to give us extra things, then they will, but if they don't, you shouldn't be disappointed. We were never promised anything else. 

[MisterUltimate]

OK, so they omit the details from the patch notes. It's not a good practice from anyone who publishes software, but they do it anyway. Is that where the responsibility to protect you from the information is?

What about everyone who is well aware of what was in the founder pack? Excluding the information from the patch notes does nothing for them. They now feel underappreciated. Is DE responsible for going further, or are their feelings of underappreciation less in need of a remedy?

I'm a completionist. I want EVERYTHING. Dear Lord do I want everything. But, to have everything, I would need to belong to the group and not only bought founder packs, but all prime access. Not gonna happen. Not a sign that I'm underappreciated.

I know you felt the request wasn't unreasonable, but yeah, it actually is. You're asking DE to devise seperate means disseminating information based on who has access to the individual piece of content in question.

Wait, there was a fix for the Titan Extractor Prime? I wasn't here for that. I can't buy it.

No, Titan Extractor Prime is not new, but what if someone feels underappreciated by learning of it? They can't get it because they weren't here. Does the situation being slightly different invalidate their feelings?

If so, what prevents your feelings from being invalidated by someone with a slightly different situation?

If not, how does DE disseminate information in a way that takes into account the many, many ways someone might feel left out or underappreciated?

Remember, Founders are not the only ones that have exclusives. What you are asking for is not as simple as issuing two sets of patch notes.

[Temmron]

DE picks a select few each month based on your actions in the forum and in game.

I know Q.Q

 

When we purchased the PA packages, we knew what we were getting. We have all the cosmetics or weapons that came with them and that's all we can really reasonably expect. Too many people purchase the PA to be considered for Design forum access. If they want to give us extra things, then they will, but if they don't, you shouldn't be disappointed. We were never promised anything else. 

So when people purchased the founder package they knew they were getting sigils in U15?

I mean you can allways ask, maybe someone is nice and grants me all my wishes :D

Edited November 16, 2014 by Seyenas

[-FV-Wsocks]

I know Q.Q

 

So when people purchased the founder package they knew they were getting sigils in U15?

I'm sure that they were told something about getting thanks in the future.

[DarthBane1]

To tell you guys the truth the Thought from DE to the founders for the sigil was nice. 

 

 

I agree that the excal prime etc. Should stay a founder only item. However as for the sigil...

I think was a nice gesture if you guys have a problem with it than have it. 

[Temmron]

 

To tell you guys the truth the Thought from DE to the founders for the sigil was nice. 

 

 

I agree that the excal prime etc. Should stay a founder only item. However as for the sigil...

I think was a nice gesture if you guys have a problem with it than have it. 

 

? I dont I just want one too now for prime access packs :D

[-FV-Wsocks]

OK, so they omit the details from the patch notes. It's not a good practice from anyone who publishes software, but they do it anyway. Is that where the responsibility to protect you from the information is?

What about everyone who is well aware of what was in the founder pack? Excluding the information from the patch notes does nothing for them. They now feel underappreciated. Is DE responsible for going further, or are their feelings of underappreciation less in need of a remedy?

I'm a completionist. I want EVERYTHING. Dear Lord do I want everything. But, to have everything, I would need to belong to the group and not only bought founder packs, but all prime access. Not gonna happen. Not a sign that I'm underappreciated.

I know you felt the request wasn't unreasonable, but yeah, it actually is. You're asking DE to devise seperate means disseminating information based on who has access to the individual piece of content in question.

Wait, there was a fix for the Titan Extractor Prime? I wasn't here for that. I can't buy it.

No, Titan Extractor Prime is not new, but what if someone feels underappreciated by learning of it? They can't get it because they weren't here. Does the situation being slightly different invalidate their feelings?

If so, what prevents your feelings from being invalidated by someone with a slightly different situation?

If not, how does DE disseminate information in a way that takes into account the many, many ways someone might feel left out or underappreciated?

Remember, Founders are not the only ones that have exclusives. What you are asking for is not as simple as issuing two sets of patch notes.

Are you not getting tired of making the same argument? We can no longer get the exclusive items. I'm not asking to be coddled nor am I suggesting that my solution is an absolutely perfect one. I never suggest a Founders only patch notes. Many other people have made suggestions of messages in game, or on the forums. A spoiler section at the bottom of the patch notes knowingly containing Founders changes. The purpose of posting here isn't to get change to happen. DE has said many times in forum posting instructions and general replies that they do not respond well to 'DE you NEED to do this NOW.'  The purpose of the post is to suggest an Idea. It is up to DE to decide whether the concerns I've brought forward have any merit. 

[-FV-Wsocks]

 

To tell you guys the truth the Thought from DE to the founders for the sigil was nice. 

 

 

I agree that the excal prime etc. Should stay a founder only item. However as for the sigil...

I think was a nice gesture if you guys have a problem with it than have it. 

 

Everything that Founders received and are still receiving from being Founders isn't in question. Most of those who have posted here have agreed that DE will continue to show the Founders appreciation through gifts of exclusive items. The main point of the OP was to suggest that having new Founders exclusive items announced in the public patch notes might make non-Founders who support the game through Prime Access packs or by other means feel as though there contributions don't mean as much as the similar contribution that the Founders made. 

[Wyldbill]

How about a message to the founders from the Lotus in-game?  You can already send messages to everyone in the game, why not come up with one where it has a flag that checks for Founder status?  Even though I missed my shot at getting Founder, since I don't put money into Alpha games as a rule, I do feel an alternate way of notifiying those that did take a leap of faith would help with the New Players vs. Founder situations.

 

On that note, if there was a flag that would make Event and Founder items invisible on the profiles of people who missed them, I think would help alleviate tensions as well.

[-FV-Wsocks]

How about a message to the founders from the Lotus in-game?  You can already send messages to everyone in the game, why not come up with one where it has a flag that checks for Founder status?  Even though I missed my shot at getting Founder, since I don't put money into Alpha games as a rule, I do feel an alternate way of notifiying those that did take a leap of faith would help with the New Players vs. Founder situations.

 

On that note, if there was a flag that would make Event and Founder items invisible on the profiles of people who missed them, I think would help alleviate tensions as well.

People have suggested that removing certain changes from the patch notes completely would leave room for DE to take 'other things' out. I don't think DE would ever leave something out for malicious purposes but there's enough concern that some people were thinking adding a spoiler section of the patch notes would be enough. 

[Wyldbill]

People concerned with DE leaving out changes in patch notes shouldn't worry too much about that.  How would you know if they were leaving things out already?  The only way for anyone to figure out changes otherwise were if they were obvious (Power Changes, Warframe Changes, etc.) Those patch notes are written by hand by someone from DE and if they felt like it, they wouldn't need to really add anything except "Updated from version 15.1.2 to 15.2".  It is nice that they give us a more indepth look at what they did, but nothing is there to keep them honest if they decide to leave stuff out.

 

But I do agree, a spoiler tab probably labled "Founder's Changes" would probably do it. Then if you get angry or lustful about any changes you only have yourself to blame.

[AsuraKyu]

These outright attacks to Socks from Founders are pretty sad. The entitlement is obviously there as he's met with such rash opposition which i find humorously enough is being presented in a manner that says: We're equal but I'm better than you. So don't be be mad about it. But whatever. (Not all of you of course but a select few.)

 

However I did find it strange that founders were getting this extended thank you when I decided to put some time into Warframe. Of course things like Kickstarters exist and people are rewarded for their donation accordingly. What bothered me more so was the rewards are still coming almost a full 2 years later. Using the example of Kickstarters again, After said people have received their corresponding reward, that's usually the end of it. As I've only played Warframe about 3 months now maybe I don't feel left out because why would I? However as my time in this game progresses why wouldn't I? It's completely understandable how ANYONE could feel as though they've been devalued after a continued thank you for something that could very well possibly amount to something far less than what I've done. Only difference being I did it a later time, but of course that means yours is worth more than mine.

 

Furthermore Warframe is one of the only games where I've seen this done. They may be able to get away with this due tot he exceptional F2P model they have presented to the community, as well as the frequency/usability of said founders rewards. Exclusive items in any game are fantastic I completely back them as long as they don't become to frequent and less special. Excalibro Prime will never be less special. Same goes for Lato and Skana Prime. There is 100% no chance of them ever being redistributed to the general public. That sounds like payment in full to a successful thriving game. I feel that thank you was enough. I also feel this may be because of how good DE is to it's players. I can almost say for certain there are very few if any game developers to date with a F2P model this well done or as generous as DE.

 

That being said, all the things founders have obtained add up to be pretty sweet and obviously worth the monetary game of dice you played with the beginning of the this games life. Yet they can expect  that same thank, that same level of special for the remaining years of this life. Probably get a level of hate for this unseen by the likes of hell, but I don't think they deserve that nor do I feel that any one does in any game. Yes it makes PA look so much less significant, yes it makes my money feel like it's yes, and yes patch notes are a constant reminder of that. A gift of 100, 200 or even $300 from anyone would of course always have my gratitude, and DE has shown that with their gifts back, but I myself would find myself thanking them for it throughout the years 2, 3 or 4 years down the line. Definitely appreciated without a doubt, but in my opinion that's excessive.

 

I've got nothing against founders ( Even if it may seem I do) as a game enthusiast who's played under so many different companies. I find DE's dedication to their community refreshing to say the least. But I don't think A thank you to their currently paying customers ( Along side their previously paying customers ) is to much to ask If the reminder of Founders is necessity.

[Wyldbill]

We probably want to step back a bit, this is starting to get a little accusatory, but I am going to put it on the record that the Founders don't necessarily deserve new things everytime a new part of the game comes out (Since I don't think when they first bought a founder pack, DE had said that Founders would recieve exclusives constantly) BUT it is admirable how DE keeps rewarding them for their early support and it is up to them when it comes to keeping up with doing so.

 

It is frustrating when people have been playing the game for Years now and they don't get any special considerations, but since we aren't technically founders we might as well just suck it up.  

 

I'm trying to get at it might be a good idea to come up with "Dedication" rewards for the more veteran players, which would be similar to the founders reward, but less flashy/Prime-esque.  This would help alleviate some tension between the Older players and the founders while giving something for newer players to be proud of, but I doubt they care about founders getting things they don't until they get to Mastery 6

Edited November 16, 2014 by Wyldbill

[-FV-Wsocks]

We probably want to step back a bit, this is starting to get a little accusatory, but I am going to put it on the record that the Founders don't necessarily deserve new things everytime a new part of the game comes out (Since I don't think when they first bought a founder pack, DE had said that Founders would recieve exclusives constantly) BUT it is admirable how DE keeps rewarding them for their early support and it is up to them when it comes to keeping up with doing so.

 

It is frustrating when people have been playing the game for Years now and they don't get any special considerations, but since we aren't technically founders we might as well just suck it up.  

 

I'm trying to get at it might be a good idea to come up with "Dedication" rewards for the more veteran players, which would be similar to the founders reward, but less flashy/Prime-esque.  This would help alleviate some tension between the Older players and the founders while giving something for newer players to be proud of, but I doubt they care about founders getting things they don't until they get to Mastery 6

I don't think that people who aren't Founders should receive exclusive content unless they've payed for them. This sort of opportunity is offered by the Prime Access bundles. I also don't think that the Founders should stop being rewarded for their early contribution or that other players should receive similar treatment/rewards that the Founders get without purchasing something like the Prime Access. To stop rewarding Founders or to make their exclusive title in any way less exclusive could have the effect of making them feel underappreciated for their support which is exactly the idea that this post is against. No one should feel that their contribution isn't appreciated. 

[AsuraKyu]

I don't think that people who aren't Founders should receive exclusive content unless they've payed for them. This sort of opportunity is offered by the Prime Access bundles. I also don't think that the Founders should stop being rewarded for their early contribution or that other players should receive similar treatment/rewards that the Founders get without purchasing something like the Prime Access. To stop rewarding Founders or to make their exclusive title in any way less exclusive could have the effect of making them feel underappreciated for their support which is exactly the idea that this post is against. No one should feel that their contribution isn't appreciated. 

Well as I've said they've been assured there contribution is appreciated I also don't understand how something exclusive can become less exclusive do to a new found lack in it's public recognition. I do however agree we shouldn't be rewarded just because the Vandal/Wraith/Randomly event obtained weapons much like how the Brakk was are enough to fill that purpose.

[Wyldbill]

Technically, most (if not all) founders payed for an early on founders pack and that is why they are still receiving these gifts from the lotus.  If I knew back when I first started this game would suck up most of my freetime, I would have put money into it without a second thought.  Sadly, I didn't believe it would survive, as most alpha games I play generally die within half a year, so I didn't put up money.  That is why I don't think it is unwarrented for Founders to get exlcusive gear, but do see how it can be seen as a caste system.  

 

The reason why there is always hate getting sent to the "Founders" is that it seems like there is only 2 clear "classes", with the Founders up at the top for something they did years ago, and then everyone else.

 

You have the older players who have been very dedicated and have put money into this game, possibly more than the founders in some cases, but forever see themselves equal to a player who just started out due to very little benefits.  And then they look up and see how DE has been giving bonuses to people that did something that barely anyone left that isn't a founder remembers and they feel it is unfair.

 

I know making entirely new items is a hassle, but if the more dedicated players recieved similar, but not as prestigious, gifts from DE, I'd feel it help stem a lot of the Us Vs. Them discussions that get posted and do nothing but spite everyone involved.

[Seanjuju]

The founders badge was translated into a system that was entirely new. This is an over-complication of a non-issue.

[-FV-Wsocks]

The founders badge was translated into a system that was entirely new. This is an over-complication of a non-issue.

If you think that one Founders sigl is the issue, then you don't understand the point of the post. 

[Sylaenius]

The founders badge was translated into a system that was entirely new. This is an over-complication of a non-issue.

 

Submitting that my Sigil now fires compressed particle bolts like Ironman's Unibeam.

 

Edit:

 

 

If you think that one Founders sigl is the issue, then you don't understand the point of the post.

 

Yes, we get it already. You feel undervalued and unwanted because Founders content exists and when, from time to time, fixes and expansions become necessary to this content and it's put into patch notes you're reminded how terribly inadequate as a human being you feel and thus you wish to have Digital Extremes devote money and manpower to permanently strike it from your purview to spare your feelings.

 

Oh and also the existence of Founders content negates the copious number of times members of Digital Extremes has utterly lavished comments and feelings of praise, contentment, and general warmth towards the community at large nearly every Dev stream, or the few times they've thanked people for having good sales on Prime Access bundles. S'not like they brag about that kinda stuff every chance they get, or anything.

 

Truly, these people undervalue you.

 

Edited November 16, 2014 by Sylaenius

[elixze]

Why not give out a founder pack or something very close, but can only be bought by People who have played the game for longer? I doubt the founders would mind much. I didn't take the risk to buy the pack either, but Yeah, I am not alone.

[-FV-Wsocks]

Submitting that my Sigil now fires compressed particle bolts like Ironman's Unibeam.

The pulsating effects on the higher tier sigils as well as the Mastery sigil are pretty cool looking. I can only imagine what any of the Founders sigils must look like. *o*

[-FV-Wsocks]

Why not give out a founder pack or something very close, but can only be bought by People who have played the game for longer? I doubt the founders would mind much. I didn't take the risk to buy the pack either, but Yeah, I am not alone.

Releasing a pack only available to members of the community who have played a certain amount of time would be both unfair and a bad business decision.