Enemies, Quality Or Quantity

[BrotherIcarus]

Wrong game to play then. Ubisoft games and the new Shadow of Mordor tend to do better at this.

I'd try those.

I don't see how that is in any way relevant. 

[Egg_Chen]

I like my Aunts, and I certainly don't want to slaughter them...

 

Agree with the Gif, god I hate saying that.

Both... hordes of enemies, with some that make you go "Oh S*!*"

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

To be honest, that is a really bad idea. If there's no sense of player power progression (ie Pluto enemies take the same amount of effort as Mercury ones), players aren't going to feel like actually putting in the effort to progress.

It's not going to result in skill based gameplay, it's just going to result in players wandering off because there's no reason to invest their time and money in the game if they're always the same power level.

 

This isn't true. For every single game without scaling ever, the enemies have been, at the very least, almost as difficult to progress against at the end as they were at the beginning. The difference is the players got better, and that increased. In this game you can get better, but you don't need to because the damage mods have you covered (and the rest aren't worth using, but that's for another day).

 

That being said, I think it might be better if normal enemies were slightly weaker against us at the higher levels (assuming we have better weapons), but there were more and more "microboss" type enemies (like lone Hyenas or the jetpack twins) that at the higher levels would show up normally in missions (although only a certain number could spawn at a time).

 

This allows players to feel like gods against the fodder, but still get challenged.

Edited November 21, 2014 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Amazerath]

Rather than leveling the grineer trooper, for example, the number of grineer trooper could be increased, and, to add flavor, some sort of grinner trooper sergeant or something could be present.

 

Adding squad leaders is ok if done properly. Raising the number of enemies is not ok because it ruins the game for people with low-end hardware.

 

Also, don't forget about procs. The more enemies you have, the higher the proc chance (you're getting hit more often). And there are some pretty nasty procs such as bleed. Yes, DE could simply balance the procs, but it would take them a really long time to do that. Just look at how long it takes them to balance warframes, weapons and everything else.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Also, don't forget about procs. The more enemies you have, the higher the proc chance (you're getting hit more often). And there are some pretty nasty procs such as bleed. Yes, DE could simply balance the procs, but it would take them a really long time to do that. Just look at how long it takes them to balance warframes, weapons and everything else.

 

The only one that would be high priority is Bleed, because you can't see the proc coming (unlike Toxin), and you don't restore to your past self when it ends (unlike Puncture)

[AsuraKyu]

Why not both I wouldn't mind a horde of grunts and elites bombarding me in some game play modes; it sounds fun.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

I don't see how that is in any way relevant.

Yes and I was coming back to edit.

On topic: To get quality enemies, Warframe would need a large change. First, multiple frames, like Nova; Ember; and Ash, would need a big overhaul. That in itself essentially breaks any chance of few but powerful enemies; however, there is still another way. DE will need to improve stealth and here's why. Far Cry 3 and Shadow of Mordor are not entirely stealth games, but they are designed in a way that promotes stealth. For example, in SoM, all enemies are powerful, but they are also large in number (at least in certain areas). Far Cry 3 does the same thing.

That's what will need to happen.

[Amazerath]

The only one that would be high priority is Bleed, because you can't see the proc coming (unlike Toxin), and you don't restore to your past self when it ends (unlike Puncture)

 

Yes, but I think being cautious doesn't hurt. I've been playing this game for long enough to understand that basic changes can (and will) create unexpectedly complicated results. As an example, a single toxic cloud doesn't seem like a big deal. But imagine being inside a corridor filled with toxic clouds generated by many dead Toxic Crawlers. Now add maybe one or two Toxic Ancients harpooning you through those clouds and suddenly things aren't as simple anymore.

 

That's one of the dangers of messing with numbers. Things can escalate in unpredictable ways and you end up paying the price if you're not careful. It happened many times with this game already and I would rather not see it happen again if it can be avoided. Besides, his other idea of adding squad leaders is a lot more simple and it gets the job done (again, if done properly).

[s7n7a7k7e]

What this game needs is more variety of enemies. Possibly a new faction? Syndicates would be a good place to start. They should be introducing these instead of summoning eximus versions of enemies we've already seen over and over again. Planets should have more variety. It would be cool if Neptune had some sort of underwater faction that controlled that planet, that rise from the depths to defend their planet from intruders like Greneir or Corpus. I don't want everytime I visit a new planet I just wind up on the same old Greneir ship or Corpus base. I mean we're traveling galaxies here. They're telling me that out of all the planets in the galaxy, the only things we find other than Greneir and Corpus are Kubrows, and Sand Skates? Drahks don't really count anymore because they are just another part of the Greneir line up. Infested are the only faction that make sense. Other than when invasion missions appear, they aren't all over the galaxy. You find them on Eris which is an example of what would happen to a planet if infestations were allowed to overrun an entire planet. You find them on derelict ships, and you find them in the void. Their placement in the Warframe world makes sense. But the Corpus and Greneir just happen to be EVERYWHERE. Kind of reminds me of Planetside 2 sometimes how you have this huuuuge world, (In our case worlds) but you never see anything on those planets except for the same factions you fight against on every other continent/planet/ship floating near that planet (the most common case). Earth is one of my most favorite of the planets because with the addition of Kubrow dens, vegetation, running water, etc, it makes the planet actually feel like it is teaming with life.

 

And it's always the same maps, even with the randomized tilesets, it is still very repetitive. I love when we get missions that are "actually on a planet." Like on the ground.... Icey areas, Sandy areas like Phobos, Swampy like Earth. We need more of these. But we need more tiles added to the ones we already have, too. For instance, whenever I'm on one of the icey excavation missions, I can't help noticing the same tile patterns over and over and over again on the same map. It wouldn't be so bad if there were more tiles to add to the randomization, but after a while it becomes monotonous. It's unnatural to see the same shaped glaciers as much as four times on the same map... It kind of gives you a feeling like in the movies where you see characters walk into an old western town just to find out the houses are cardboard props.

 

What factions we have are good. What we need is more variety added to the mix and some lore to go with it for a change. I'd like to know what my Tenno's purpose is. I'd like to see more conversations going back and forth between factions we fight that we know, like during the first Archwing mission. Or missions like the "Once Awake" quests. Even the Kubrow quests were a nice addition. People want more content. Not just harder versions of what we already have.

Edited November 21, 2014 by s7n7a7k7e

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Yes, but I think being cautious doesn't hurt. I've been playing this game for long enough to understand that basic changes can (and will) create unexpectedly complicated results. As an example, a single toxic cloud doesn't seem like a big deal. But imagine being inside a corridor filled with toxic clouds generated by many dead Toxic Crawlers. Now add maybe one or two Toxic Ancients harpooning you through those clouds and suddenly things aren't as simple anymore.

 

That's one of the dangers of messing with numbers. Things can escalate in unpredictable ways and you end up paying the price if you're not careful. It happened many times with this game already and I would rather not see it happen again if it can be avoided. Besides, his other idea of adding squad leaders is a lot more simple and it gets the job done (again, if done properly).

 

Fair enough. I don't even think adding more numbers necessarily helps, not when our ultimates work the way they do right now anyway.

[Taranis49]

You suggested increasing the enemies health and damage. Those are both artificial difficulty. Lets say there is a two step combo to defeating an enemy, first you roll out the way of its shots then you shoot it and it dies. Increasing the enemies health just means I have to repeat the combo in order to kill them or if you increase its damage it takes nothing extra to for me to defeat the enemy thus it is no more challenging. 

 

While it's certainly not engaging or fun difficulty (particularly since a good chunk of attacks in the game can't be reliably avoided via skilled movement), upping damage/health doesn't strictly qualify as Fake Difficulty by itself: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty (there's also the sub-category:  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard).

 

Energy Drain Auras or Stalker's tendency to instantly switch weapons/immunity to frame abilities/other gimmicks are much better examples of it (since they're things the player doesn't have access to) and breaks the cardinal rule listed on the latter page ("never get caught cheating").

 

Nitpicky distinction maybe, but yeah, while I dislike bullet sponges/DPS hoses, the gimmicky stuff that DE's piled on to certain enemies is basically called out directly for "how you should not design an enemy/AI/game". That's setting the bar pretty low and they evidently don't know how to clear it.

[Yazeth]

I prefer a mixture of both, like having a tough-@ss dude in the middle of a small mob. It gives an epic feel.