Hek, From Amazing To Terrible.

[Ceres666]

First of all, remove damage drop off as it is a terrible cancer that has been killing shotguns for years, to the point that people actually think that this is how shotguns work. There is nothing fun about doing no damage to something within spitting range.

Secondly, the best way to "balance" the Hek would be to make it fit its role better. We already have the Bronco as the extreme close range high damage sawn-off hand cannon, the Strun as the low-mid range double-barreled super shotgun, and the Boar as the low-mid range automatic DPS machine. What is needed is a mid-long range economy shotgun (classic Doom shotgun), that is what the Hek is supposed to be. The problem is that a fully modded Hek would keep the reliability of its role while having the absurd damage of the super shotgun role. So then the solution would obviously be to reduce the Hek's damage, but then the problem is that it is too weak unless fully modded. So then, Why not try reducing shotgun mods a bit, primarily multi-shot as this is what truly makes the Hek such an outstanding weapon, while improving the Boar and Strun just a bit to compensate?

There are many ways you could go about balancing these weapons, including doing nothing to them and improving alternative weapons (Snipetron!), but the only thing that is absolutely 100% UNACCEPTABLE is causing rounds to fade into the void after a few meters like every other terrible modern shooter.

 

^ so very much this!!!

[EvieTheTenno]

First of all, remove damage drop off as it is a terrible cancer that has been killing shotguns for years, to the point that people actually think that this is how shotguns work. There is nothing fun about doing no damage to something within spitting range.

Secondly, the best way to "balance" the Hek would be to make it fit its role better. We already have the Bronco as the extreme close range high damage sawn-off hand cannon, the Strun as the low-mid range double-barreled super shotgun, and the Boar as the low-mid range automatic DPS machine. What is needed is a mid-long range economy shotgun (classic Doom shotgun), that is what the Hek is supposed to be. The problem is that a fully modded Hek would keep the reliability of its role while having the absurd damage of the super shotgun role. So then the solution would obviously be to reduce the Hek's damage, but then the problem is that it is too weak unless fully modded. So then, Why not try reducing shotgun mods a bit, primarily multi-shot as this is what truly makes the Hek such an outstanding weapon, while improving the Boar and Strun just a bit to compensate?

There are many ways you could go about balancing these weapons, including doing nothing to them and improving alternative weapons (Snipetron!), but the only thing that is absolutely 100% UNACCEPTABLE is causing rounds to fade into the void after a few meters like every other terrible modern shooter.

Put perfectly so. Either that or buff rifle mods.

[Cleesus]

My Hek is basically useless now, I was using it on the pluto defense mission and the mobs i used to shred in one shot, take a couple now. I used to love that gun, now i guess its back to the Boltor until i try out this buffed Grataka

[AngelHarza]

So I just logged on to test out the new changes to the shotgun. It's terrible, there is literally no use for this weapon anymore. Potato'd takes 3 shots to kill a Grineer from 20m or so away. Strun and Boar are unarguably the better weapons. Thanks for wasting my time and effort, not to mention the only catalyst I had DE. 

 

Oh and making the Glaive BP an alert award is horse S#&$.

 

You #*($%%@ up.

Im so totally with you love.

so totally

in

love

with

WARFRAME

but yea

[AngelHarza]

Yep.

 

Good that I still have my good ol' Boltor somewhere, just have to find it...and yeah, my Boar and Strun of course.

But hey, lets nerf the highest Rank Weapon in the game into eternity, sounds like a great plan! :)

uhhh no.... lvl up new weapons all the time more ranks :)

[Dredj]

Range HAD to be reduced on the Hek, but only slightly, what should have changed imo is the damage.

[AngelHarza]

Yes, it might be disappointing.

But bear in mind that the Devs talked about balancing weapons. If the Hek is so overpowered, the other weapons will be viewed upon as 'useless'. 

Furthermore, this change is realistic. Shotguns are supposed to be effective in short range, not long range. If not, what are the snipers for? You can rage all you want, but dont take it out on the Devs. 

 

P.S. I have a hek and its supercharged too. 

ummm ok lets say im only in one thing same with you and its the hek power they should just lower its range with more spread and not lower all shotguns power with lower range (5m if you do dmg even then) only because of one damn shotgun i would advise for the devs to do more spray on shotguns and a mod with spray reduction no plz dont lower the dmg of because and only one gun. yea i blame the devs im with love

[neKroMancer]

Does it matter, you are arguing about a weapon in a videogame that doesn't exist that is usually being fired in what is most likely lesser gravity from what we are used to based on it either being artificial or being on a celestial body like and asteroid that is nowhere near the mass of the Earth, tragectory and distance are going to be different in space especially when using a weapon that probably has a more advanced firing mechanism and ammunition than something we use today, if you really want to debate it realistically. Not to mention that your average Grineer is wearing heavy duty armor that is probably more advanced than Kevlar and is also bio-enhanced and cybernetically enhanced as well.

 

Remember, never forget what Mass Effect 2 taught us: "Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a $#*(@ in space!"

 

http://youtu.be/sCoHT_cHPzY

 

P.S: New idea for Warframe, Isaac Newton frame, he kills people by dropping knowledge on them.

 

Ahh, well. i think it does matter. Forumers go raging over "videogame logic" and "IRL shotgun does not behave in such way". However, professional experience and research say otherwise.

 

Shotgun damage does falloff at long range. It hits but it doesn't kill (unless you got hit in the head or the heart). 

[AngelHarza]

Ahh, well. i think it does matter. Forumers go raging over "videogame logic" and "IRL shotgun does not behave in such way". However, professional experience and research say otherwise.

 

Shotgun damage does falloff at long range. It hits but it doesn't kill (unless you got hit in the head or the heart). 

ummm..... yea but it allways depends on the shotgun but true.

i have been shooting with all kinds of guns lets say when i was 7 years old and id say the shotgun doesnt never ever behave the way as it does in warframe. Lets say mossberg hunting shotgun or not hunting shotgun shoots easily 26 m from the target to the right spot so reality in gaming their aint never coming one.

[jayswag]

Honestly as soon as I tested my hek after the update the words out of my mouth were "Ah F*%* I can't believe you've done this". DE, you've over nerf'd shotguns to the point where they are outclassed by mele weapons. I understand that you wanted people to use different weapons besides the hek, but once you reach mastery rank 4 your playing high level missions. A lot of the options we are given are not suitable to bring into high level combat (50+). Instead of making 3 primay wep's near useless (one being the most popular and coveted wep of the game) you should re balance it by introducing more higher level harder hitting weps.

[VanillaRegal]

Yes, it might be disappointing.

But bear in mind that the Devs talked about balancing weapons. If the Hek is so overpowered, the other weapons will be viewed upon as 'useless'. 

Furthermore, this change is realistic. Shotguns are supposed to be effective in short range, not long range. If not, what are the snipers for? You can rage all you want, but dont take it out on the Devs. 

 

P.S. I have a hek and its supercharged too. 

It's too bad you have never fired a shotgun in real life before. Balls of lead flying at high speed don't suddenly turn into marshmallows after they get forty feet from the barrel.

[Krimstar]

Another great way to balance the Hek would be to actually buff it a bit. Tighten its spread and increase its damage a bit, but at the same time make it require rank 5 and crafted, with a massively reduced total ammo capacity, and/or increased round usage per shot fired, and reload speed. This would put it in a role similar to that of the Devastator shotgun in Serious Sam 3, an extremely high-power anti-everything weapon that is most useful for taking out high-priority heavy targets (Bosses, Toxic Ancients, Rollers) while being nigh-useless for anything else due to poor reliability and ammo economy, a sort of tier 2 or heavy weapon. Then add in a shotgun that is all around good with a decent mag size (~10-12), moderate fire rate, tight cone, and medium-low damage (A slightly weaker version of the pre-nerf Hek) to fill the role of the light economic shotgun for easily taking out grunts at about any range.

And again, damage fall off is a terrible curse set upon this game which must be lifted immediately! Do anything you want to fix the Hek and shotguns, just so long as it doesn't include turning these beautiful machines into confetti fun guns.

[neKroMancer]

Another great way to balance the Hek would be to actually buff it a bit. Tighten its spread and increase its damage a bit, but at the same time make it require rank 5 and crafted, with a massively reduced total ammo capacity, and/or increased round usage per shot fired, and reload speed. This would put it in a role similar to that of the Devastator shotgun in Serious Sam 3, an extremely high-power anti-everything weapon that is most useful for taking out high-priority heavy targets (Bosses, Toxic Ancients, Rollers) while being nigh-useless for anything else due to poor reliability and ammo economy, a sort of tier 2 or heavy weapon. Then add in a shotgun that is all around good with a decent mag size (~10-12), moderate fire rate, tight cone, and medium-low damage (A slightly weaker version of the pre-nerf Hek) to fill the role of the light economic shotgun for easily taking out grunts at about any range.

And again, damage fall off is a terrible curse set upon this game which must be lifted immediately! Do anything you want to fix the Hek and shotguns, just so long as it doesn't include turning these beautiful machines into confetti fun guns.

 

Well, it will turn into ME3 Claymore, OHK weapon with single shot per clip and 10 spare ammo. DE could go with that.

 

Damage falloff is actually a good concept but the implement is a bit too harsh. 25 meter should be a sweet spot for falloff and creating a place for long-range sniper to perform. Pre-7.9 Hek was 4-shot, OHK, all purpose weapon. It did really ask for a nerf bat.

[wolfenstian]

This update has made me feel like not playing any more, and that is saying quite a bit since I have been addicted to this for awhile. I love all shotguns with boar and hek being tied for first.

 

The problem with this patch is that the hek now has the boars range and my lovely boar pretty much needs to rub against the grineers nipples to do max damage (exaggerated but you get my point). In trying to nerf the Hek you have destroyed the boar (its not like its spread was bad enough). I agree that using the Hek as a sniper was wrong but this "fix" was way overkill in my eyes. 

 

I still want to use my shotguns (put a potato on all three and ranked them to lvl 30) but now I feel I am not helping my team. To bad I spent so many mods and credits on fusing nice shotgun mods.

[Shadrikmoon]

Who in the right mind use a shotgun to snipe!? Who?!! It's a freaking shotgun for god sake! Last time, I checked a shot gun is for close quarter combat and not a stupid sniping tools! Devastating point blank and completely useless long range. 

 

 

[Furyoushounen]

The problem wasn't that Hek was overpowered. The game lacked two things: powerful enough alternatives (Gorgon MK1? I dunno.) and level 60-70 missions which would be the turf of Hek and similar high-level weapons. What we actually got was fighting symptoms without addressing the real issue.

 

Yep, just more of the same!

[Furyoushounen]

The thing is, lots of people will still use hek no matter where they are.. 

You can choose not to call it overpowered. But you cant deny that it is overused. 

 

Who cares if it is "overused?" And why in the hell does it matter if a lot of people use it? The only thing that says is that the other guns are S#&$!

[Furyoushounen]

Maybe the Hek could have used some tweaking, but simply rendering it useless is a lazy and unsatisfactory solution. Maybe instead of nerfing the only level 4 mastery weapon in the game, they could spend some time making other guns useful? Maybe give the Grakata a little bump in damage so players would use it, instead of shunning it as the pea shooter it is? Something other than nerfing would be a great change of pace, maybe buff the @(*()$ snipetron so players would feel more inclined to use a SNIPER to SNIPE.

 

This guy for Mayor!

[Alienami]

You sir have clearly never fired a shotgun in real life.

 

I  agree, but you should have linked this video. Same guy, more accurate portrayal.. heavy buck instead of slugs.

Also, these guys say you can do 30 to 60 yards depending with 00 Buckshot, depending on how tight you choke the barrel...and that isn't with a sci-fi alien shotgun designed to be accurate to medium combat range.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080520115405AAo9mAn

http://www.fieldandstream.com/answers/guns/shotguns/ammunition/what-max-effective-range-00-buckshot-using-3-shells-out-12-gauge-i-

[iamLoveless]

 

Who in the right mind use a shotgun to snipe!? Who?!! It's a freaking shotgun for god sake! Last time, I checked a shot gun is for close quarter combat and not a stupid sniping tools! Devastating point blank and completely useless long range. 

 

 

 

People use the Hek to snipe because it's better than the Snipetron. The things a joke, especially when you consider that a Latron can do far better when it's modded up. The Hek wasn't perfect, but it wasn't nerf worthy. It's purpose was to serve as an in-between for Rifle and Shotguns, thus the tight spread and reduced pellet count. It's range and/or spread over long range needed to be tweaked, but it's damage was never the issue.

 

We already have a good set of melee weapons for point-blank combat, not to mention the Boar already required it's wielder to be in it's enemies faces BEFORE the nerf. I see people talking about it's overuse as if it a problem with the gun itself. It's not. If there were better alternatives to the Hek then people wouldn't use it as much, but the Snipetron's a joke, the Latron is slow, the Grakata is a bebe gun, the Braton sucks everywhere but Mercury, the Burston kicks like a mule, and the Gorgon being the only thing close to the Hek in effectiveness can't hit anything long range.

[-0mega-]

The DEs could always just bump the hek's drop off to 25-30m that'd fix a lot of player's rambling.

[neKroMancer]

People use the Hek to snipe because it's better than the Snipetron. The things a joke, especially when you consider that a Latron can do far better when it's modded up. The Hek wasn't perfect, but it wasn't nerf worthy. It's purpose was to serve as an in-between for Rifle and Shotguns, thus the tight spread and reduced pellet count. It's range and/or spread over long range needed to be tweaked, but it's damage was never the issue.

 

We already have a good set of melee weapons for point-blank combat, not to mention the Boar already required it's wielder to be in it's enemies faces BEFORE the nerf. I see people talking about it's overuse as if it a problem with the gun itself. It's not. If there were better alternatives to the Hek then people wouldn't use it as much, but the Snipetron's a joke, the Latron is slow, the Grakata is a bebe gun, the Braton sucks everywhere but Mercury, the Burston kicks like a mule, and the Gorgon being the only thing close to the Hek in effectiveness can't hit anything long range.

 

The problem is the fact that it completely dominated the combat. No weapon came close to raw power and range of Hek. It was perfect weapon for all situations. 

 

We have to choices.

1. Buff everything to the usefulness of Hek. And later buff the enemy even more.

2. Nerf the Hek and keep other things in the same place.

 

This situation is the same as the Krysae nerfwar in ME3MP last year. One weapon was introduced and dominated the combat, player feel empowered, everything died left and right, and no doubt - it was nerf, hard.

 

Players whined and threw tantrum. Such is the cycle of balance.

[Playbeyond]

Im glad they nerfed the Hek very glad actually it now works as a shotgun. Allowing for rifles such as the latron and snipetron to shine past 20m where you should never shoot a pellet loaded shotgun anyway

[mmSNAKE]

Hek not only was hit so that it's useless at range, but also the damage seems to drop point blank. Sure it was absurd before this patch, but now for a mastery 4 rank item, it doesn't seem worth it any longer.

 

Also I'll be the first one to argue regarding real life vs. video game gun ballistics however since realism isn't a necessity for a game, it is unnecessary to argue.

 

Realism != fun || balance in every instance.

Edited April 27, 2013 by mmSNAKE

[Dodge-This]

Hahaha I think its funny to all the rages that the shot guns are now what they are ment to be sure it was fun shooting a shotgun 1000meters but really its a shotgun its only ment to shoot 5m so grow up and use the shotgun how its ment to be used.

but if they added a new mod for the shotgun say a slug mod turning the spray into one round then the range would also increase

Edited April 27, 2013 by Dodge-This