Hek, From Amazing To Terrible.

[DryRoastedLemon]

The big problem whith Hek spread is that a lot of enemies have very large profiles. You couldn't really snipe, say, Moas with it, and crewmen usually took one or two shots, but mostly because of their damage-magnifying heads that make one pellet lethal. Now go on and try to miss a grineer.

 

That's not really a problem of the HEK, is it? Indeed, it's pretty hard to miss a grineer, but that's part of the design. They're not made to dodge bullets, they're made to eat bullets for breakfast. The way I see it, the grineer are built to tank, and as such might have to be more powerful than they are now.

 

EDIT

 

 

This^ is so true.My RANK 30 HEK with maxed dmg mod+maxed AP has to shoot 2 times to break a broken air vent at 20m away,that is just ridiculous.Considering it only has 4 clip(6 at max with mod) and the reload speed is 2 seconds which is considered long.And if you're in a CQC and have to reload,you're probably gonna get stun locked by infested unless you have some saved energy to escape.

 

What i really want to say that the damage fall-off is TOO steep,yes i know hek is deadly at point blank range(which is sometimes inacurate because it hits more to the right when you're at point blank),please re-consider the damage fall-off,this nerf literally makes all shotgun to a mele weapon with bullet and reload time.

 

 

Indeed, it's absolutely ridiculous. The thing that makes it even more painfully stupid to watch it too see every single pellet make contact. Every single pellet hits the target, but for some asinine reason none of them do any significant damage. It does not work like that! The effectiveness of a shotgun decreases the further you go because of spread, not because of the pellets becoming inert.

Edited April 28, 2013 by DryRoastedLemon

[GTG3000]

That's not really a problem of the HEK, is it? Indeed, it's pretty hard to miss a grineer, but that's part of the design. They're not made to dodge bullets, they're made to eat bullets for breakfast. The way I see it, the grineer are built to tank, and as such might have to be more powerful than they are now.

 

Well, it all is most visible on hek, so community mind pinned it on hek. As http://extra-credits.net/'>Extra credits have stated, community will point out what they think to be flaws, but what can be actually only a result of the real problems. Unluckily, Hek was both broken on it's own and as a result of the artstyle and mechanics, so what did they do instead of looking at everything thoroughly and fixing hek so it would still be good? They nerfed. /sigh

And now they keep us in silence. How nice of you, DE.

[neKroMancer]

Say, just out of curiousity, did anyone get any response on this? 

Not even DERebecca commented on this in the update topic. In fact, she only posted, like, three messages there.

I don't know how about you, guys, but I get a strong feeling of DE, spitting in my face. Don't they have someone to, say, manage community, especially to answer such questions and deal with backlashes?

DE Rebecca already answered somewhere yesterday. The team will reconsider the change/adjustment as soon as they can pull a meeting. The curse of Friday update, the dev aren't in the office on weekend.

[GTG3000]

DE Rebecca already answered somewhere yesterday. The team will reconsider the change/adjustment as soon as they can pull a meeting. The curse of Friday update, the dev aren't in the office on weekend.

 

Ah, well, that's very good. Although I souldn't find her replies on this myself, and it still buffles me why couldn't she reply here, opening a forum and finding a massive thread on current update is almost a free action.

Could you try to remember where did she reply? I couldn't find anything on this from her in update thread.

 

[edit]

Okay, maybe I'm wrong with my attitude, I apologize if my grumpines and rudeness offended someone, but still, what's the point of having a community manager, that can't have time to reply on forums more than ten times a day?

Edited April 28, 2013 by GTG3000

[_PerfectSoldier_]

RAGE x2 for the shotguns and for the glaive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Enlil]

Yes, it might be disappointing.

But bear in mind that the Devs talked about balancing weapons. If the Hek is so overpowered, the other weapons will be viewed upon as 'useless'. 

Furthermore, this change is realistic. Shotguns are supposed to be effective in short range, not long range. If not, what are the snipers for? You can rage all you want, but dont take it out on the Devs. 

 

P.S. I have a hek and its supercharged too. 

Frome what planet did you come? We talk about 10m effectif, (my living room is bigger) not 300m.. 10m is as good as melee range. my Super soaker spreads 15m.. and 50m for an sniper wpn you got to be kidding me... There are mobs around that engage frome 100m or more, shooting through walls and barrels in packs of 15+. Good luck with you're 10m efective range.. i bet, you can toss the Glaive further.. And whats next? The pistols? ppl snipe with them aswell, are they gonna get nerft to the 5m range? That would make sence in your opinion aswell if you state it like that.. 

 

I can life with an sensible nerf. But not an nerf that is thrown in there to screw up the hole Hek thing, while it's still be sold as an mid to large range wpn. where ppl worked hard for (to get that lvl4 mastery lvl and maybee spend 15E for it on top of that).. It's just an bust and you dont know whats next!! 

 

And for my consern, to what wpn should i look forward to now?? I rly dont know. It's sertenly not Grakata nor an starter wpn. Maybee you can tell me what brings the smile back on ppl's face that are fighting off those lvl 55 mobs?? Or for what reason we got to be motivated to increase the mastery rating in first place..

[PaleMinerva]

The problem wasn't that Hek was overpowered. The game lacked two things: powerful enough alternatives (Gorgon MK1? I dunno.) and level 60-70 missions which would be the turf of Hek and similar high-level weapons. What we actually got was fighting symptoms without addressing the real issue.

This remains the best post in this thread.

[Syurn]

Has anyone considered that these nerfs were made to set up new mods. Maybe a shotgun range+ mod is incoming for the hek or an accuracy+ mod for the gorgon that would force you to choose what your weapon could do instead of just loading up on damage.

[Enlil]

Has anyone considered that these nerfs were made to set up new mods. Maybe a shotgun range+ mod is incoming for the hek or an accuracy+ mod for the gorgon that would force you to choose what your weapon could do instead of just loading up on damage.

uhm, err... uh, Not rly.

[MilesCadre]

uhm, err... uh, Not rly.

What he said.

 

Theres currently no talks that we're aware of to increase range via mods.

 

They overtuned the range of shotguns and overtuned the accuracy of Gorgon. And as we feared, we wont see any hotfixes this weekend. I'd say give it til tuesday or wednesday to at least hear what DE has to say regarding shotguns and Gorgon getting borked.

[Enlil]

Problem, Tenno? My boomstick still works.

lol, which one?? i feel kind of #*($%%@

[Syurn]

They've talked about adding a lot of new mods. But with the weapons how they were what would the mods be for. You could use most weapons at all ranges and for all purposes. A good use for mods would be to make weapons more specialized. To have you choose how weapons work instead of just swapping out elemental mods.

 

I've thought about what new mods they could do for weapons before the patch. I couldn't think of many that would make sense. You already had damage mods, crit mods, elemental mods, ammo mods. If the guns are all purpose like they were what else can you do.

 

Also there hasn't been much talk at all about what the new mods will do but they have mentioned gun specific mods.

[GTG3000]

They've talked about adding a lot of new mods. But with the weapons how they were what would the mods be for. You could use most weapons at all ranges and for all purposes. A good use for mods would be to make weapons more specialized. To have you choose how weapons work instead of just swapping out elemental mods.

 

I've thought about what new mods they could do for weapons before the patch. I couldn't think of many that would make sense. You already had damage mods, crit mods, elemental mods, ammo mods. If the guns are all purpose like they were what else can you do.

 

Also there hasn't been much talk at all about what the new mods will do but they have mentioned gun specific mods.

 

Making such  a nerf to introduce some mods is lazy, one way or another. Using any weapon in any situation is what they are aiming at with the sidegrading they seem to choose over upgrades, and forcing weapons into a niche is a bad way to add diversity. New mods could control the spread, they could add poison damage or silence the gun. Having weapon 'precepts' would be nice indeed too, but it would make balancing into a completel headache.

[Syurn]

The Paris and Snipetron were already forced into a niche. You have people complaining about bows being brought into games. I think the Hek nerf was extreme but I have no problem with an adjusment that doesn't let me outsnipe the snipers.

[MilesCadre]

They've talked about adding a lot of new mods. But with the weapons how they were what would the mods be for. You could use most weapons at all ranges and for all purposes. A good use for mods would be to make weapons more specialized. To have you choose how weapons work instead of just swapping out elemental mods.

 

I've thought about what new mods they could do for weapons before the patch. I couldn't think of many that would make sense. You already had damage mods, crit mods, elemental mods, ammo mods. If the guns are all purpose like they were what else can you do.

 

Also there hasn't been much talk at all about what the new mods will do but they have mentioned gun specific mods.

I'm sure as a member of the Dev Council I cant say exactly what is and isnt in the forum.

 

But we did have a vote about a week or so ago on which mods we'd like to see added. And out of the list of 30 or so, none of them boosted the range of guns. Sorry to be blunt and not give the answer you're looking for, but as I mentioned above; we (as in the dev council) have not heard any talks about adding range mods to guns.

 

DE Devs are human like the rest of us and made a mistake. They also apparently dont work over the weekend. Chillax, grab a different weapon, and wait til they make an announcement.

[GTG3000]

The Paris and Snipetron were already forced into a niche. You have people complaining about bows being brought into games. I think the Hek nerf was extreme but I have no problem with an adjusment that doesn't let me outsnipe the snipers.

 

Well, don't know about you, I couldn't outsnipe the snipers. I just want to be able to shoot across the room and deal damage if I so happen to hit anyone. Snipetron still needs some sort of a buff. And, well, can't argue with paris - it has it's niche of stealthy range weapons, and it only shares it with the glaive so far.

 

 

 

I'm sure as a member of the Dev Council I cant say exactly what is and isnt in the forum.

 

But we did have a vote about a week or so ago on which mods we'd like to see added. And out of the list of 30 or so, none of them boosted the range of guns. Sorry to be blunt and not give the answer you're looking for, but as I mentioned above; we (as in the dev council) have not heard any talks about adding range mods to guns.

 

DE Devs are human like the rest of us and made a mistake. They also apparently dont work over the weekend. Chillax, grab a different weapon, and wait til they make an announcement.

 

I grabed a latron. It's not as satisfying at all.

Edited April 28, 2013 by GTG3000

[neKroMancer]

I'm sure as a member of the Dev Council I cant say exactly what is and isnt in the forum.

 

But we did have a vote about a week or so ago on which mods we'd like to see added. And out of the list of 30 or so, none of them boosted the range of guns. Sorry to be blunt and not give the answer you're looking for, but as I mentioned above; we (as in the dev council) have not heard any talks about adding range mods to guns.

 

DE Devs are human like the rest of us and made a mistake. They also apparently dont work over the weekend. Chillax, grab a different weapon, and wait til they make an announcement.

I think there was mod that increase accuracy and decrease recoil for long gun proposed in the vote. It was not shotgun-specific though.

[Syurn]

That was before the nerf there was no need for range mods. I'm not worried about this I sort like the idea of more diversity among weapons. I like the idea of tanky frames infront with shotguns, agile frames with escape mechanisms running around enemies with high rate of fire weapons, and casters in the back with long range guns. There is no need for cooperation right now I would like it if the devs added that. Being able to one shot kill people across the room with my Hek was sort of boring.

[DryRoastedLemon]

That was before the nerf there was no need for range mods. I'm not worried about this I sort like the idea of more diversity among weapons. I like the idea of tanky frames infront with shotguns, agile frames with escape mechanisms running around enemies with high rate of fire weapons, and casters in the back with long range guns. There is no need for cooperation right now I would like it if the devs added that. Being able to one shot kill people across the room with my Hek was sort of boring.

 

Diversity of weaponry is one thing, but if you've actually seen how they mutilated the HEK to the point where it's basically a clown's weapon is just ridiculous. Haven't you noticed all the pellets making contact but doing close to nil damage? It's not a sawed-off shotgun, for crying out loud. Heck, even a sawed-off would be more effective.

Sure, having more co-operation would be pretty cool, but doing it this way is just dumb.

Edited April 28, 2013 by DryRoastedLemon

[Hezekiah]

The Hek was op, it was, really.  It is still powerful at mid-close range, really it is.  When using it I still dominate danm near anywhere.  Yes it takes a few shots to kill stuff now, but that is where teamwork comes it, much better weapon after patch in my humble opinion. 

 

also it would be great if they now added in range and spread mods so you could get back your sniper shotgun, just have to work for it now. 

Edited April 28, 2013 by Hezekiah

[Syurn]

I posted earlier that the Hek nerf was extreme. I tried using it and was confused that my shotgun didn't seem to kill anything even at close range. After I got out of the game I checked to see if my mods were still equiped. I thought a bug might have removed them but nope they were still equiped. If shotgun range is nerfed you have to compensate by making them obscenely powerful up close. A tank with a shotgun should be able to kill very quickly up close and a two handed weapon would be used as crowd control.

[MilesCadre]

I think there was mod that increase accuracy and decrease recoil for long gun proposed in the vote. It was not shotgun-specific though.

It was to reduce recoil and spread but decrease rof. And it appeared to flop in the polls.

[Hatr]

The Hek was op, it was, really.  It is still powerful at mid-close range, really it is.  When using it I still dominate danm near anywhere.  Yes it takes a few shots to kill stuff now, but that is where teamwork comes it, much better weapon after patch in my humble opinion. 

 

also it would be great if they now added in range and spread mods so you could get back your sniper shotgun, just have to work for it now. 

Snipe with shotgun that barelly will do any damage, because i'm sure that if they will add such mods they will take many slots, and 10m is close-mid range?.. Better go with melee instead of bothering to shoot on such short ranges..

[SFkenny]

DE could always add "Choke" mods for shotguns for players to decrease shot spread.

[Hatr]

DE could always add "Choke" mods for shotguns for players to decrease shot spread.

Shotgun spread isn't the problem right now.. at the ranges we are forced to play with shotguns, all the pellets will hit the target unless your hand is badly hurt