Brane_Ded Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) I took the Hek for a spin to see how the new falloff changes affected it. I needed a mission with low level enemies, infinite spawns and a decently long hallway that I could mark ranges with waypoints. I used M Prime on Mercury and tested damage at the closest range possible ~2-3m (3m is the range at which the Fragor/Scindo can reach and still do damage) on multiple Lancers and Troopers (The green and yellow Grineers, respectively) and found that I did a very consistent 51 damage per pellet.I then marked waypoints to find specific ranges at 5m intervals: 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, and 40 meters and proceeded to shoot the Grineer in the lower chest to avoid headshots and get consistent numbers. I would record each kill's damage per pellet and the range at which it was damaged and here's the averages of what I found. 5m = 51 damage10m = 51 damage15m = 15 damage20m = 7 damage25m = 7 damage30m = 7 damage35m = 7 damage40m = 7 damageI then broke the range from 15m to 20m to find where the damage shifted from something other than 7 and found that at 19m is where every pellet started doing 7 damage. If 3m is the maximum range of a melee weapon and >50m is considered long range according to DE then the ranges for short and medium distance should be half of the distance between the end of melee and the beginning of long range or in other words short range = 3m-23.5m and medium range should be 23.5-50m.The new effective range of the Hek (Strun, Boar and probably the Bronco too but I don't own them) is between 3m and 15m thus placing it strictly in the short range category. Beyond 19m the damage of the Hek has already been reduced by 86.3% (1-7/51) and is no longer feasible as it requires too many shots vs magazine size to effectively kill npcs. The description of the Hek will need to be changed to note that it does not work effectively at medium range anymore (as it currently states), it's short range only.*Edit* Fixed the missing 25m value. Edited April 27, 2013 by Brane_Ded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxomfaux Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 dang that's a steep drop :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deost Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 So shotguns are basically useless now. Might as well put them in the melee pile. :n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HITMAMA Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I can only hope that it is "broken, and that someone messed this up somewhere. I am not a #'s person. I can however tell you that my Hek which used to one shot Grineer now takes 5 shots !! Even at 5 feet away !! It's damage at ANY range has been reduced by I am guessing at least 80 % !! TOTALLY USELESS NOW !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 So that explains why the lv4 lancer in mercury took a shot to the chest and lived... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShimmerDoll Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 So only rhino players can use it effectively now? What the HEK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooghetti Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) 5m = 51 damage 10m = 51 damage 15m = 15 damage 20m = 7 damage 30m = 7 damage 35m = 7 damage 40m = 7 damage One should assume it would look more like this judging how your typical VIDYASHOOTGUHN works: 5m = 51 damage 10m = 51 damage 15m = 25 damage 20m = 25 damage 30m = 12 damage 35m = 12 damage 40m = 6 damage Still effective at mid range, but still excels at close range the best, long range being completely out of the picture. It ain't rocket science. Edited April 27, 2013 by Spooghetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) ^ that's kind of hard to read :P And I'd keep full damage up to 15 meters or just remove damage dropoff and increase spread. Edited April 27, 2013 by The_Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoswerLK Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 take off your mods and try again, your results don't make any sense. a regular hek pellet to grineer body should never do 51 (20 per pellet base, max damage mod is +90%, grineer body takes 33% damage) I ran my own tests earlier with unmodded hek also on m prime, though I didn't make note of every distance point blank/max damage per pellet to body: 6 beginning at around 20m to body: 1 what's more interesting is a point blank headshot did 13. mathematically, it should've done the full 20, as their head has no damage reduction at that level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloCreep Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 The gun is fine the way it is. It is still very very powerful. 15 meters is 45 feet my man thats pretty far in a video game with a shotgun. God people take this stuff so seriously doing their own generic testing. You really dont think the DEVs know how far and how much damage a gun that THEY made does? Love the work the DEVS are putting out, this update is awesome and hek is better. If I had it my way there would be more pellets with more of a spread but hey I'm happy with todays fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) ^ I don't think you noticed that at 15m the weapon is dealing less than 1/3 of its damage. It's losing 13.8% damage per meter starting at 10 meters. That's insane. Edited April 27, 2013 by The_Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShimmerDoll Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) The gun is fine the way it is. It is still very very powerful. 15 meters is 45 feet my man thats pretty far in a video game with a shotgun. God people take this stuff so seriously doing their own generic testing. You really dont think the DEVs know how far and how much damage a gun that THEY made does? Love the work the DEVS are putting out, this update is awesome and hek is better. If I had it my way there would be more pellets with more of a spread but hey I'm happy with todays fix.Yeah making it worse is "better" - makes complete sense. They always nerf on friday and go hide too. Edited April 27, 2013 by BloodDoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoswerLK Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 have you checked how much 15m is in this game....press G and try it........it's not far at all. 15m in this game is like 10 feet. everyone's a giant in this game, apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamefreak9149 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 so far, best test of the new hex falloff damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brane_Ded Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 take off your mods and try again, your results don't make any sense. a regular hek pellet to grineer body should never do 51 (20 per pellet base, max damage mod is +90%, grineer body takes 33% damage) I ran my own tests earlier with unmodded hek also on m prime, though I didn't make note of every distance point blank/max damage per pellet to body: 6 beginning at around 20m to body: 1 what's more interesting is a point blank headshot did 13. mathematically, it should've done the full 20, as their head has no damage reduction at that level It does not matter what mods are on the weapon as long as the mods don't change between tests. Consistency is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OoKeNnEtHoO Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I don't use the Hek but if your figures are right, they really should reduce the steepness of the fall in damage and turn it into a more gradual one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilion Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Bronco has no falloff. I can snipe better with the pistol shotty than the dedicated shotty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brane_Ded Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Bronco has no falloff. I can snipe better with the pistol shotty than the dedicated shotty. That is very interesting to note. Can anyone else confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DryRoastedLemon Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Bronco has no falloff. I can snipe better with the pistol shotty than the dedicated shotty. Seriously? Bwhahaha, what a terribly executed patch this is. I do hope they correct this issue, and by correcting I don't mean nerfing the bronco as well, but properly rebalancing the weapons. Might I also share my thoughts about the terrible HEK nerf? It's vastly illogical for the HEK to receive such a heavy nerf. The HEK is a cross between a rifle and a shotgun. You can tell from the smaller pellet spread when comparing it to its shotty brethern. In a way it actually reminds me of an improved elephant gun. Anyway, since it's a cross between a rifle and a shotgun, it's supposed to stay effective at mid range, and gradually lose effectiveness at long range. Also, poor boar. It was already a pain to use, and now it's even more useless. Man, this is one poorly executed patch. I hope they'll correct this soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAPTONE Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I gotta say, I think the devs are way too heavy handed with nerfs in this game. It's PvE afterall, no need to be so brutal with the nerfbat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaxEthenica Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 You get an up-vote from me for using solid methodology coupled with effort. SCIENCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enlil Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 The gun is fine the way it is. It is still very very powerful. 15 meters is 45 feet my man thats pretty far in a video game with a shotgun. God people take this stuff so seriously doing their own generic testing. You really dont think the DEVs know how far and how much damage a gun that THEY made does? Love the work the DEVS are putting out, this update is awesome and hek is better. If I had it my way there would be more pellets with more of a spread but hey I'm happy with todays fix. Dude, it sucks. the wpn is worthless compared to other wpn's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtorma Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 The gun is fine the way it is. It is still very very powerful. 15 meters is 45 feet my man thats pretty far in a video game with a shotgun. God people take this stuff so seriously doing their own generic testing. You really dont think the DEVs know how far and how much damage a gun that THEY made does? Love the work the DEVS are putting out, this update is awesome and hek is better. If I had it my way there would be more pellets with more of a spread but hey I'm happy with todays fix. If the devs knew all these things, as you state, this thread wouldn't be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendantWyvern Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Well that de-escalated quickly... what I envisioned a proper balance would entail would be: 5m = 51 damage10m = 51 damage15m = 40 damage20m = 30 damage25m = 20 damage30m = 10 damage35m = 7 damage40m = 7 damage That seems more reasonable if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekkaman-Blade Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yeah, this nerf did hit a bit too hard, hopefully they up the effective range a bit. Shame cause I bought a Hek 2 days before the patch, now I have to shelf it till it's fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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