No Glaive Blueprint? Fine, No Support From Me.

[Mir.]

I thought it was 50 for new players, and the 100 was closed-beta reward?

Yeap, to be accurate, the 100 plats was a way of compensation from DE from update 6 to 7 when all the mods were turned into fusion cores.

[Fjarri]

Lets just say this. DE didn't put it in the shop, boohoo. Now can we get over it? It's a friggin beta, DE is testing the waters and has yet to implement other ways of obtaining content than the ones we have, and they obviously don't want it easily acquired, but not relegated to a mastery level (Maybe?). So what if it didn't end up as a bp in the market and is only instantly available for plat? I don't see a precedent forming here. Now if I saw this happen for more things without addressing the lowering probability of alerts triggering bps, then I would be concerned.

 

It's a PvE weapon in a game currently with no PvP or Meta-PvP or any notable competition between players recognized by the community. How does this weapon cause so much strife, when I can kill Things just as rapidly with over a dozen other weapons, melee or others, though maybe not as silently; which has no real purpose since silent play has no real benefits and is extremely lacking. (Please add silenced pistols, i love the cheezy sniper/silenced sound I heard in James Bond and stuff >.<)

 

I would personally have put the glaive on a new planet with ridiculously hard levels, a mini-boss osprey to be a gear check, and then a final boss that will pwn everything unless they have full inventory, and 4 players HAVE to work together. But do you think DE could do anything even close to that yet while still building the game as rapidly as they are? (Also, I think they might get yelled at for the game not being fair to more casual users if they went along those lines)

 

I am going to wait and see. 

Edited April 27, 2013 by Fjarri

[Quetzhal]

Well in this game at least "effort" the way you and everyone else complaining about DE's choice is time. I don't see how spending time to get credits is any better than a rng system rewarding the bp. That isn't beneficial to the community as a whole. Just like having some skill challenge wouldn't be, nor having some stupidly high level defense reward (sup nyx can cheese all day long). There isn't anything that will actually be fair for everyone. I'm sorry that you feel slighted because you have credits and materials to spend, but that isn't how everyone is. I guess this is the bigger problem... some people feel slighted because some people can get a weapon sooner. There's simply no reason to feel that way unless said person is pretty and/or insecure.

All of the complaints can all be summed up by one group of people mad because another group can get a weapon sooner. There is nothing stopping anyone from getting it... chances are that eventually it will appear when people are around and they'll have it. Apparently people wouldn't be complaining if it was *just* added to the alert system... so what does that leave us with... people who are either jealous or impatient. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't measure my achievements in a game by what someone else purchased and thus got before me. So long as this isn't the defacto standard for all/the majority of the upcoming weapons it simply doesn't matter in reality.

Absolutely not. You're generalizing. Please don't do that.

There have been plenty of valid arguments that have been brought up about the way the Glaive was released. DE knew about the weapon's hype; they knew the community was excited for it and knew people would want to get it as soon as possible. The fact that they made it platinum-or-alert only ultimately comes off as greedy; note that I did not say that they are greedy, but that the situation understandably comes off as such to others. There was hype, people were excited, and it looks to many like they are trying to profit off this excitement by breaking away from the usual way in which they release weapons and only making it immediately available using platinum. Note that the weapons released for the past couple of weeks have all been available for credits by blueprint.

Had they started off by saying it would be an alert only reward, there would likely have been much less backlash. That said...

The concern is not that there is a new weapon added to the alert/platinum pool; as was said, the Heat Dagger was released with no issues. However, the primary difference between the two is that the Glaive is an entirely new class of weapon, to the degree to which it borders on gameplay changing  (note, not game changing; having a ranged melee weapon merely forces you to consider a different alternative from the usual style of play. Also note that I said borders on, not that it is.). It is the first weapon with infinite ammunition and pinpoint accuracy, ricochets, and does significant amounts of damage.

If a normal weapon were released in this way and I wouldn't care. If a weapon is going to be gameplay changing - pardon the slight exaggeration - paying and non-paying players alike should be able to obtain the weapon. Preferably not by the alert system, because - I'm going to stop here because you posted something -

 

Time isn't effort, but that's the implication of all the people complaining. They want to be able to waste time rather than waiting on an alert because for some reason it's better. This is simply a different way of complaining that they cannot have their toy now, and I'm having a hard time understanding why it matters when you get it so long as it's possible for everyone to get it.

Again, absolutely not. I implore you to stop with all of these generalisations. Many of the previous posts explain that a big problem that they have with this system is that the alert system is not based on effort. It is purely based on luck. One player can play every day, dedicating time and effort to the game, and they still wouldn't have the blueprint if they happened to be busy when the alert popped. A different player can forget about the game for a week, pop on just in time to see the alert, and get the blueprint without putting any effort into it whatsoever.

And that is precisely why it should not be an alert thing. There are two layers to my dissatisfaction with how DE has handled the issue:

1) Not being upfront with players about it being alert only. The problem with this is that the players who were so excited for the Glaive and have no way to get it using platinum are now immediately alienated. Not a good thing. Had they been mentioned this from the start, I doubt players would have been as disappointed. And yes, there are exceptions to this. Of course there are.

2) The Glaive is an entirely new type of weapon. A new class of weapon should not be alert-only. A skin for it could be alert only; a more powerful version could be alert only. This is because the system currently being used for alerts - RNG - is not designed for that. It's designed as a reward for constantly checking back in on the game, much like login rewards - it's cool to be able to get the occasional upgrade or badass looking weapon from it. A new type of weapon is a different matter.

[ZHui]

If they implement Glaive Blueprint with Credit, I will sue if they don't refund my platinum.

[plznohurtme]

Absolutely not. You're generalizing. Please don't do that.

There have been plenty of valid arguments that have been brought up about the way the Glaive was released. DE knew about the weapon's hype; they knew the community was excited for it and knew people would want to get it as soon as possible. The fact that they made it platinum-or-alert only ultimately comes off as greedy; note that I did not say that they are greedy, but that the situation understandably comes off as such to others. There was hype, people were excited, and it looks to many like they are trying to profit off this excitement by breaking away from the usual way in which they release weapons and only making it immediately available using platinum. Note that the weapons released for the past couple of weeks have all been available for credits by blueprint.

Had they started off by saying it would be an alert only reward, there would likely have been much less backlash. That said...

The concern is not that there is a new weapon added to the alert/platinum pool; as was said, the Heat Dagger was released with no issues. However, the primary difference between the two is that the Glaive is an entirely new class of weapon, to the degree to which it borders on gameplay changing (note, not game changing; having a ranged melee weapon merely forces you to consider a different alternative from the usual style of play. Also note that I said borders on, not that it is.). It is the first weapon with infinite ammunition and pinpoint accuracy, ricochets, and does significant amounts of damage.

If a normal weapon were released in this way and I wouldn't care. If a weapon is going to be gameplay changing - pardon the slight exaggeration - paying and non-paying players alike should be able to obtain the weapon. Preferably not by the alert system, because - I'm going to stop here because you posted something -

Again, absolutely not. I implore you to stop with all of these generalisations. Many of the previous posts explain that a big problem that they have with this system is that the alert system is not based on effort. It is purely based on luck. One player can play every day, dedicating time and effort to the game, and they still wouldn't have the blueprint if they happened to be busy when the alert popped. A different player can forget about the game for a week, pop on just in time to see the alert, and get the blueprint without putting any effort into it whatsoever.

And that is precisely why it should not be an alert thing. There are two layers to my dissatisfaction with how DE has handled the issue:

1) Not being upfront with players about it being alert only. The problem with this is that the players who were so excited for the Glaive and have no way to get it using platinum are now immediately alienated. Not a good thing. Had they been mentioned this from the start, I doubt players would have been as disappointed. And yes, there are exceptions to this. Of course there are.

2) The Glaive is an entirely new type of weapon. A new class of weapon should not be alert-only. A skin for it could be alert only; a more powerful version could be alert only. This is because the system currently being used for alerts - RNG - is not designed for that. It's designed as a reward for constantly checking back in on the game, much like login rewards - it's cool to be able to get the occasional upgrade or badass looking weapon from it. A new type of weapon is a different matter.

All of the complaints here are a generalization and imply that somehow the glaive isn't fair, but every other alert reward is fine. Plasma Sword and Dark Sword both have quite a bit higher charge damage than every other 1h... Pre u7 the heat sword was quite a bit faster than every other 1h. It's okay for these, but not the glaive because they're still swords? Sorry but you can't argue using generalizations and then not expect to be called on it. You're also stating your opinions as if they're fact and not opinions.

Again time isn't effort, it's time, end of story.

Edited April 27, 2013 by plznohurtme

[Cinderain]

It wasn't confirmed until the livestream this week

 

No, they talked about throwable weapons, including the Glaive, in the live stream two weeks ago.

[ManTouch]

I'm part of the non-paying community and I have no problem with the Glaive being alert-only. I don't have the inv space for one anyway. Even if I do win one in an alert I wouldn't be able to use it without deleting stuff. 

 

I like playing the game so I don't mind playing a lot and finding stuff. I still don't care for the inv limitations, but to be honest I can't see anything else in this game that would be worth the investment.

[dEEkAy2k9]

what i don't agree with is the way this weapon is available.

 

there are lots of weapons which you can buy either with platinum or via the blueprint in the market.

there are lots of weapons which are not buyable at all, plasma sword, pangolin sword, mire, etc. these ONLY drop from ?-alerts and you cannot buy these with platinum nor can you buy their blueprint in the market.

 

the only exceptions to this rule are the heat dagger and now the much anticipated glaive.

[Nicocat]

No, they talked about throwable weapons, including the Glaive, in the live stream two weeks ago.

To be fair, did anyone NOT see a glaive coming?  Or did really nobody play Dark Sector?  *looks over at bookshelf*

[plznohurtme]

No, they talked about throwable weapons, including the Glaive, in the live stream two weeks ago.

I'd forgotten about that I guess 'cuz I was more interested in the throwing weapons, so let's see three weeks from confirmation. Still not seeing why it's such a big deal. Sure better communication would make people feel better about themselves, but let's face it all the complaining going on now would have just gone on when they announced it.

[Cinderain]

all the complaining going on now would have just gone on when they announced it.

 

Exactly.

Edited April 27, 2013 by FatalX7

[Quetzhal]

All of the complaints here are a generalization and imply that somehow the glaive isn't fair, but every other alert reward is fine. Plasma Sword and Dark Sword both have quite a bit higher charge damage than every other 1h... Pre u7 the heat sword was quite a bit faster than every other 1h. It's okay for these, but not the glaive because they're still swords? Sorry but you can't argue using generalizations and then not expect to be called on it. You're also stating your opinions as if they're fact and not opinions.

Again time isn't effort, it's time, end of story.

Are you serious?

 

 

All of the complaints here are a generalization

That is a generalization. I hope you realise this.

Neither the Plasma Sword nor the Dark Sword change gameplay. The heat sword does not change gameplay. My opinion is that a gameplay changing weapon should be made readily available, because gameplay mechanics are core to the game and all players should have the opportunity to explore mechanisms core to the gameplay. Alerts are not a good system to dispense such an item because they are time based and not effort based. Players willing to put in effort should be rewarded; players who give up in the process should play. Players who do nothing but wait should not be rewarded simply for being in the right place at the right time.

 

Sorry but you can't argue using generalizations and then not expect to be called on it.

Your entire argument is that all the complaints boil down to the same thing. You summarize that, twist the point, and then attack the twisted version of the point. That is a strawman fallacy. And I did not generalize; I stated in my post that there are exceptions.

 

You're also stating your opinions as if they're fact and not opinions.

No, I'm just stating my opinions. You are free to dispute them; I welcome debate, but simply saying that I am stating my opinion does not refute my points. Opinions often have valid reasoning behind them.

 

Again time isn't effort, it's time, end of story.

...and alerts are time based, not effort based. Which is the problem. I have no idea what argument you're trying to make here.

[Fjarri]

I'd forgotten about that I guess 'cuz I was more interested in the throwing weapons, so let's see three weeks from confirmation. Still not seeing why it's such a big deal. Sure better communication would make people feel better about themselves, but let's face it all the complaining going on now would have just gone on when they announced it.

 

It probably would have been almost exactly the same, good call! But then again, people would have demanded confirmations, and reasoning as well, which wouldn't have gone well I feel.

[Basara09112023]

Suggestion: Red and Black drops Glaive BP

 

:D cause he/she killed the previous Tenno and kept it as trophy.

[Fjarri]

Suggestion: Red and Black drops Glaive BP

 

:D cause he/she killed the previous Tenno and kept it as trophy.

 

Oh god, I hope they didn't give them the Glaive. I like my head where it is thank you.

[Cinderain]

Suggestion: Red and Black drops Glaive BP

 

:D cause he/she killed the previous Tenno and kept it as trophy.

 

I've never even seen this mythical being of legend...

[-Grey-]

Look at the other hand: Supporters and founders get nothing with the exception of the discount on titanium and a frame what they will never use. (skana prime, lato prime. are you fkin kiddin me bro?). Feels like:

you support our game: Here lil'boy get this frame waht you will never use, and an option to vote on some developments. Srsly. it's like : you can participate in democracy but only if oyu PAY.

 

 

They (we?) can't do else than "shortcuts" with our support. Paying for thing what other can get in 1-2 days is a bit annoying. F2p is a thing but nothing for members is another. Just think about it. Anyone could build any desired frame or gear in 2-3 days of dedicated gameplay. So titanium worth nothing at this time. No-fo-ting.

 And I spent quite a pile o' titanium to realize I could build the stuff faster and easier without even supporting the system.

 

There are no privileges (something like an unique visual option for each n every frame), or special weapon or gear privileges, nor colours or stuff.

Option to vote for real money. Bro u msut be kiddin, they said.

 

Sure everyone is equal, but someone with the concept of "I never pay for games" and one with " Hey these guys are working on something for me, I could throw 'em a few bucks in exchange" are clearly similar in supporting and in the terms of doung-stuff-for-each other.

And Im not tlaking about wiki-editors, testers, seekers and good-doers, but the mass amount of players who gives nothing else than whinning about this and that.

[nzzero]

Maybe there should be two or more versions of each weapon? A regular one, of which BP you can buy with plat/credits, and a "legendary", slightly buffed, or with more polarity slots (maybe even a minor aesthetic difference) that drops only from alerts?

[Fjarri]

Maybe there should be two or more versions of each weapon? A regular one, of which BP you can buy with plat/credits, and a "legendary", slightly buffed, or with more polarity slots (maybe even a minor aesthetic difference) that drops only from alerts?

 

They did something similar with the Paris, but its the same weapon, just the alert bp is a lot less resource intensive.

[Quetzhal]

They did something similar with the Paris, but its the same weapon, just the alert bp is a lot less resource intensive.

Isn't the alert BP more resource intensive? I remember something about it needing 600 rubedo, compared to the market BP.

[Fjarri]

Isn't the alert BP more resource intensive? I remember something about it needing 600 rubedo, compared to the market BP.

 

I got it from the market it was 1200 rube so that would mean the other one is 1800 rube. Horrifying.

[Thelonious]

I'd like to read an official statement on this change of marketing and monetization approach.

 

Is this a one-time thing only? 

 

Clearly we can all see it could be an easy way to make money from the hype...

But the bow did receive huge anticipation from the players too, and the BP could be bought with credits, like any other weapon...

 

If not, will other released weapons follow the same way of aquisition? All of them? Some of them? like new weapon types?

Or are we expecting big changes in the long term concerning the way monetization is managed?

 

We all know monetization is the main reason f2p fail and disappear nowadays.

We know DE has next to zero experience in the matter (it's true...) and we are all scared this event is a first step in the wrong direction.

 

Now would be a great time to set some ground rules and communicate with your customers, before losing them by mistake.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Thelonious

[Quetzhal]

I got it from the market it was 1200 rube so that would mean the other one is 1800 rube. Horrifying.

Are you sure? Wiki says crafting Paris doesn't need Rube at all; that was my bad in wording, sorry. I didn't need Rubedo when I built it off the market, I don't think.

Just bought the blueprint to check. Doesn't need rubedo. If I remember correctly, the alert BP required 600 rubedo. Either way it's weird that the alert version is harder to build o_o

[Fjarri]

Are you sure? Wiki says crafting Paris doesn't need Rube at all; that was my bad in wording, sorry. I didn't need Rubedo when I built it off the market, I don't think.

Just bought the blueprint to check. Doesn't need rubedo. If I remember correctly, the alert BP required 600 rubedo. Either way it's weird that the alert version is harder to build o_o

 

Then what weapon was I talking about! Am I losing my mind?

[Azure_Kytia]

The alert version was a bug. It was actually implementations of the Dagger Axe Skins. My Paris BP changed to a Scindo Dagger Axe Skin after update 7.8, I think.