Why Cod Is Bad, The Myth Of "shotgun Sniping", And Can We Love The Gorgon Again?

[PaxEthenica]

So, yeah, recent changes to shotguns and the Gorgon, plus a new weapon; I have no opinion on the new Glaive as I don't have it yet. Some people love it, and others are having problems. Whatever, the game is a beta and bugs will crop up with anything new and introduced no matter how much money you throw at quality assurance. It's the nature of PC gaming, you can't possibly know all the bugs before they happen.

 

But, the shotgun and Gorgon nerf? Yeah, that's something I definitely have an opinion on. I'll cut to chase of this little treatise and traipse out the thesis now: I'm not happy with it. Here's why.

 

Shotguns do not work like they do in Call of Duty, or at least they didn't before the patch and that was a marvelous thing. Warframe is not Call of Duty, it should not be Call of Duty, and it should not cater to Call of Duty fans. Why? Well, the obvious commercial answer is because Call of Duty fans already have Call of Duty. They won't be interested in something that isn't Call of Duty.

Oh, I'm sorry, were you expecting me to rant about how CoD is "ruining the modern-day shooter" or whatever? Yeah-no, I have more important points to make. Like how shotguns worked like their real-life counterpart before the patch, how shotguns were practically the perfect weapon for many of the tile sets in Warframe, and how that was a good thing. You see, much of Warframe is fought in relatively close quarters right now, and recent tile set expansions notwithstanding, the game is sometimes claustrophobic. Narrow corridors open up to sealed chambers, or fenced-in gantries without a lot of ready cover. Now, stop-just-just stop! Do not add a cover system! This isn't Gears of War, and Warframe shouldn't be Gears of War for the same reasons it shouldn't be CoD. The point is, however, that the distances that you fight in about maybe 70-80% of the time are really close. Like, stupidly close; heavy-urban-combat-close; so-close-that-I-could-reliably-hit-them-with-a-pebble-close, and it's these ranges where a shotgun excels. Really, they do, it's what they were made for. The hypersonic pellets remain hypersonic and deadly from modern-day shotguns up to and exceeding 60-70 meters at the lower gauges and heavier, denser shot-types . . . and I just ran a Corpus Defense where I was doing 10-15 points of damage at about 15-20 meters with a level 24, catalyzed Boar fitted with all the elemental damage mods, plus a mid-range Point Blank damage mod.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have spent both money and hours on a shotgun that is suddenly useless at close-ranged combat? At no time should my sprays of heavy-guage, armor-piercing people-shot be reduced to sprays of peas and pearl onions! I want to kill my target, not garnish them when I shoot them in the face!

The concept of "shotgun sniping" is as stupid and it is factually and semantically incorrect. Sniper rifles are designed for ranges up to half a mile and in many cases beyond that. We're not fighting in environments where true sniper rifles are a factor. Warframe takes place at SMG/Shotgun ranges, and I'm guessing that most of the complaints about shotgun sniping are mostly being made by whiners who either aren't accurate or aggressive enough with their tactics and weapons. Or, perhaps they're just too hung up on being lone-wolf killing machines with the biggest gonads ever in their online co-op experience, and don't appreciate a quick resolution to the Heavy Gunner that's had them pinned for 10 seconds.

 

On to the Gorgon!

Why for did you screw up my 90-shot semi-automatic rifle with hose attachment? Was it the way it worked a dissonance against what you intended it to be? Before the update, it was really good at what I just described it as being - a heavy semi-auto with an 'oh crap!' option. Now it's... not. I don't know what roll the Gorgon can play now. AI isn't capable of being suppressed. Ammo drops, even with an artifact, are too stingy to support spray'n'pray, and its spin-up (and new inaccuracy) means that it's useless in bursts. And how is this inaccuracy supposed to work in the lore, anyway? Warframes enhance speed, strength, endurance, and expand their senses. You're telling me that this heavy, massive gun in the hands of a spess mareen is somehow too flimsy to handle the recoil of one bullet? That-uh . . . that makes my head hurt.

Again, I don't care if people complained about the Gorgon being overpowered. They're coming from la-la logic, and it's killing my immersion, enjoyment, and murderection. In this game any and ALL guns are overpowered with enough use, anyway; not only through modules, but also through familiarity of use. Even the old Mk 1-Braton becomes a killer in experienced hands and good mods are added so what's the point? Are you going to turn that vicious head-hunter into a hunk of junk, too?

 

Please don't be CoD, because you aren't CoD, so give me back my useful shotty. While you're at it, ignore the whiners and give me back my ballistic cat penis (THE BARBS!), too, alright? I miss it so much, and I'm not even 4 hours into the new update.

[Inberun]

Gorgon still S#&$ on Boltor. DE_Steve said he will look at the shotgun fall-off again and probably will tune it down.

[G3rman]

Can't comment on shotguns, because I don't like to use them.

 

The Gorgon was always meant to be a machine gun since its introduction, not a semi-automatic that was replacing the Latron in purpose. 

[MJ12]

Gorgon still S#&$ on Boltor. DE_Steve said he will look at the shotgun fall-off again and probably will tune it down.

 

What? The Boltor has been ridiculously accurate, ignores armor (this is very important because it more than triples its effective DPS against Grineer and gives it equivalent damage per shot to the Gorgon against Corpus, plus it allows headshots) and most notably doesn't have anything resembling a spinup or spindown time.

 

 

Can't comment on shotguns, because I don't like to use them.

 

The Gorgon was always meant to be a machine gun since its introduction, not a semi-automatic that was replacing the Latron in purpose. 

 

It wasn't that accurate in single shot, and machine guns in real life are infamous for being ridiculously accurate. Carlos Hathcock, a famous Marine sniper, used a heavy machine gun as his sniper rifle.

 

Realistically the Gorgon should have the effective range and accuracy of the friggin' Snipetron. Now, I can buy it not being that perfect laser accurate due to game balance, and I wouldn't mind if they made the Gorgon unwieldy to compensate for its accuracy and firepower (lower its ADS speed so you basically can't reposition while firing it, force Tenno to brace as they shoot it so they can't move for a bit after they finish firing, etc). Same with giving the Hek lowered damage to make up for range.

 

Right now the nerfs kind of remove any reason to have either of them, unless you want a rifle pretending to be a shotgun and a shotgun that doesn't do what it's intended to do (shoot things at longer ranges).

Edited April 27, 2013 by MJ12

[PaxEthenica]

Can't comment on shotguns, because I don't like to use them.

 

The Gorgon was always meant to be a machine gun since its introduction, not a semi-automatic that was replacing the Latron in purpose. 

If it was meant to be a bullet hose, then it shouldn't have a spin-up. That's not how machine guns work; that's how useless hunks of metal that will get me killed as I stand in the stream of oncoming bullets work.

Edited April 27, 2013 by PaxEthenica

[ShimmerDoll]

My comparisons with guns in my comments are based on probably over 22-24 games that ARE NOT Call of Duty though. In all those games the guns in question are just more fun and effective.

 

I realize this game isn't those 22 other games, but seriously the game was mostly fine as is before todays patch. Sure some stuff needed slight changes here and there, but nothing so harsh as what has been done.

 

The Gorgon needs to be a bit more accurate.

 

The Hek needs to be high damage and the accuracy needs to be very good when you HARD aim the gun, because you are already putting yourself at a disadvantage aiming that way, it should pay off. Hip firing the Hek should be reduced accuracy but I don't feel the changes they made with this latest patch are really good ones. 

 

The Hek and Gorgon (rank 3 and 4 earned) were great for characters that were weaker, I know this for sure, those are the ones I liked to play. They really aren't now. I'm doing worse and getting overwhelmed and it's an unfun experience vs cheap encounters with bosses or too many AI opponents. I don't want to be forced into Rhino or something just to compensate which only kind of works. I have favorite characters (frames) and I solo.  I don't see how the changes helped anything and now it's just not fun, it's frustrating, nearly mmorpg-like annoying.

 

What guns people use should be a preference, not a forced choice because of a nerf to a gun they'd rather use. Again this is against AI, not players. In games against players I've seen stronger guns and again I'm not talking about CoD.

Edited April 27, 2013 by BloodDoll

[matrixEXO]

Can't comment on shotguns, because I don't like to use them.

The Gorgon was always meant to be a machine gun since its introduction, not a semi-automatic that was replacing the Latron in purpose. 

Latron has a higher base damage and RoF than Gorgon. The only "reason" why Gorgon might be thought of as a better replacement of a Latron is because of it's multi-function, long-range semi-auto accuracy with close-range bullet-spewing hose. Which is what make's it actually more viable and interesting. I would actually prefer if the Gorgon have a lower base accuracy (rather than hitting dead center on the first shot ALL the time) but still have a relatively high base accuracy, and having it scaling down to mediocre accuracy as you pump more speed onto the gun.

Wish they made Gorgon more balanced for both plays. Windup time does not justify it's capabilities since we have a better gun in full-auto ammo-chunker (AKA GRAKATA).

[Inberun]

What? The Boltor has been ridiculously accurate, ignores armor (this is very important because it more than triples its effective DPS against Grineer and gives it equivalent damage per shot to the Gorgon against Corpus, plus it allows headshots) and most notably doesn't have anything resembling a spinup or spindown time.

 

 

 

It wasn't that accurate in single shot, and machine guns in real life are infamous for being ridiculously accurate. Carlos Hathcock, a famous Marine sniper, used a heavy machine gun as his sniper rifle.

 

Realistically the Gorgon should have the effective range and accuracy of the friggin' Snipetron. Now, I can buy it not being that perfect laser accurate due to game balance, and I wouldn't mind if they made the Gorgon unwieldy to compensate for its accuracy and firepower (lower its ADS speed so you basically can't reposition while firing it, force Tenno to brace as they shoot it so they can't move for a bit after they finish firing, etc). Same with giving the Hek lowered damage to make up for range.

 

Right now the nerfs kind of remove any reason to have either of them, unless you want a rifle pretending to be a shotgun and a shotgun that doesn't do what it's intended to do (shoot things at longer ranges).

Gorgon fired in semi-auto still accurate enough for you to headshot enemies. At long range Boltor projectile will start to spread randomly. Plus Gorgon outdamages Boltor not only in Damage pershot but also in ROF.

 

Here is a test with Boltor and Gorgon

 

Test Subject: Lech Kril

 

- Boltor: AP 60%, Cryo 90%, Shock 90%, Damage 105%, Multishot 90%, RoF 50%

 

- Gorgon: AP 60% Cryo 90% Damage 105%, Multishot 90%

 

Result:

 

- Boltor: 400+ bodyshots to kill Lech Kril

- Gorgon: 300+

 

-> Boltor has 50% RoF, and 90% Shock while Gorgon doesnt have.

[MysteryPotato]

There's a bit of a leap in logic to go from shotguns no longer work long range to THIS IS CALL OF DUTY. Reality is the shotguns were by far and large the best option no matter what you were up against. This type of nerf was completely necessary to validate the other weapon types. If your issue lies in having a weapon work in a similar manner as cod then it's an illogical line of thought. The only thing that matters is if it's balenced for THIS game. Downvote me like crazy if you want but having a couple be all-end all weapons removes part of the excitement in choosing a weapon. Once the tweaks find a proper balence for each weapon type it will make each style viable and open to a players personal choice. So if having a gun work in similar fashion as a successful game ends up being the appropriate function... would that not make complete sense? 

[MJ12]

Gorgon fired in semi-auto still accurate enough for you to headshot enemies. At long range Boltor projectile will start to spread randomly. Plus Gorgon outdamages Boltor not only in Damage pershot but also in ROF.

 

Here is a test with Boltor and Gorgon

 

Test Subject: Lech Kril

 

- Boltor: AP 60%, Cryo 90%, Shock 90%, Damage 105%, Multishot 90%, RoF 50%

 

- Gorgon: AP 60% Cryo 90% Damage 105%, Multishot 90%

 

Result:

 

- Boltor: 400+ bodyshots to kill Lech Kril

- Gorgon: 300+

 

-> Boltor has 50% RoF, and 90% Shock while Gorgon doesnt have.

 

This is because Lech Kril, like some of the bosses, has random pure DR, which is the reason the Boltor is unreliable. Pure DR really needs to be removed from the game.

 

Also the Boltor long-range spread was IIRC due to a bug that caused bullets to veer every which way past 50m.

[MyXmaN]

I really dont understand the complaints about accuracy. If you want an accurate rifle, get yourself a latron or a braton and supermod it.

 

Gorgon just stopped being a jack of all trades. It is still good for clearing out waves of approaching enemies or quickly killing tough guys like ancients.

 

Have some freaking respect for the developers trying to make your gameplay experience more challenging.

[ShimmerDoll]

I really dont understand the complaints about accuracy. If you want an accurate rifle, get yourself a latron or a braton and supermod it.

 

Gorgon just stopped being a jack of all trades. It is still good for clearing out waves of approaching enemies or quickly killing tough guys like ancients.

 

Have some freaking respect for the developers trying to make your gameplay experience more challenging.

Accuracy when hip firing should be a little less, but when you hard aim (zooming in) with the guns, you move slower and are putting yourself at more risk (more on some frames than others too), and aiming it (zooming in) should increase the accuracy (because we are aiming) and damage so we can get headshots at an acceptable range. The way it is now after todays patch, just isn't fun or challenging at all, frustrating would be the word I'd use.  Especially soloing or duoing. It also raises a red flag for any future weapons or buying any others right now. After this patch today, the game just doesn't feel like the game I loved, and I mean REALLY LOVED. That game was one I would encourage everyone, friend, family, acquaintance or even total stranger to play!

Edited April 27, 2013 by BloodDoll

[PaxEthenica]

There's a bit of a leap in logic to go from shotguns no longer work long range to THIS IS CALL OF DUTY. Reality is the shotguns were by far and large the best option no matter what you were up against. This type of nerf was completely necessary to validate the other weapon types. If your issue lies in having a weapon work in a similar manner as cod then it's an illogical line of thought. The only thing that matters is if it's balenced for THIS game. Downvote me like crazy if you want but having a couple be all-end all weapons removes part of the excitement in choosing a weapon. Once the tweaks find a proper balence for each weapon type it will make each style viable and open to a players personal choice. So if having a gun work in similar fashion as a successful game ends up being the appropriate function... would that not make complete sense? 

I disagree with you for two reasons.

 

First is that you're encouraged to get, use, and be familiar with all the guns! ALL OF THEM! USE THEM ALL!, because if you don't then you'll be limiting yourself to newer, more potentially powerful guns and Warframes down the lines. The game is still growing, after all, and at a gratifyingly rapid pace.

 

Second reason is: shotguns not working at long range is totes CoD. Sorry, but it is. They might not have been the originator of that unfortunate gaming trope, but they are certainly the golden standard these days. It's annoying when you have a boom stick in your hands and a bunch of generic brown people are firing on an NPC while huddled behind a blown-out car. You have perfect flanking, their backs are turned to you and have have NO COVER... and you do little more than give them a firm slap on the butt with your 8-guage towel.

[ShimmerDoll]

I disagree with you for two reasons.

 

First is that you're encouraged to get, use, and be familiar with all the guns! ALL OF THEM! USE THEM ALL!, because if you don't then you'll be limiting yourself to newer, more potentially powerful guns and Warframes down the lines. The game is still growing, after all, and at a gratifyingly rapid pace.

 

Second reason is: shotguns not working at long range is totes CoD. Sorry, but it is. They might not have been the originator of that unfortunate gaming trope, but they are certainly the golden standard these days. It's annoying when you have a boom stick in your hands and a bunch of generic brown people are firing on an NPC while huddled behind a blown-out car. You have perfect flanking, their backs are turned to you and have have NO COVER... and you do little more than give them a firm slap on the butt with your 8-guage towel.

I agree with you especially on the use of all the guns.

 

Different guns are for different situations, depending on the person or different ways someone might feel one day to the next. Like with any game, be it a shooter or a fighting game, some days I just want to use one kind of gun or character over another.  I shouldn't look at my loadout now and be able to separate nerfed guns from guns that are effective. I should be looking at them, knowing they are all great and making the hard choice of which to use, because all of them are so great! So many other games have that feeling already, I want this game to have it too... and it did before the patch (again with some minor tweaks), but mostly they all felt great, and I used a wide variety.

 

It was also fun leveling them all and I still am leveling some. There's no point to using nerfed guns anymore, no point to buying any new guns or anything new because I'm fearful that it will just be nerfed in the future.

Edited April 27, 2013 by BloodDoll

[PaxEthenica]

It was also fun leveling them all and I still am leveling some. There's no point to using nerfed guns anymore, no point to buying any new guns or anything new because I'm fearful that it will just be nerfed in the future.

Okay, that sentiment? That one right there? It should be a glaring red flag doused in gasoline, strapped to a monkey, and then lit on fire in the middle of a fireworks store. That's how much attention should be paid to it because that sort of sentiment translates into play-time, which translates into money, which translates into the longevity of this game, and the future march of its content.

 

Now, I'm not saying that Digital Extremes should be wringing their hands going, "oh noes! he's right! we're boned because we're stupid! do what the rabble says!" As personally gratifying as that would be, I know it's unreasonable, but still it should be a little bit worrying. If any of the guns suddenly aren't murder-boners, or at least satisfying to use at the high catalyzed 20's then people are going to stop using them. It's the nature of such an elastic luxury product.

[Krilion]

I used the realistic shotgun mechanics as a selling point to friends who went on to PAY MONEY.

 

I now cannot use this.

[neKroMancer]

I believe that the falloff mechanic is necessary in balancing weapon variety in the game.

 

Before this patch, Hek was pretty much dominated the battlefield. Damage and accuracy were off the chart compared to other weapons. It was a FOO strategy to use the gun and kill everything at any range.

 

Is this desirable in the game with 20+ weapons? No, it's not.

 

Is the nerf that bad? I don't think so.

 

Damage falloff start around 15-20 meter and most of the engagement in the game occur within this range. At 40 meter (roughly), damage falls to abysmal level in order to balance things out. Giving shotgun and other weapons purposes and niches of their own is a good move. Do it now than do it later. The nature of the game, both PvP and PvE, require balance in order to promote diversity and prevent any strategy from dominating the playing field

 

However, if they take out the falloff mechanic - Be prepare for even more stat nerf that will change Hek into Claymore from ME3.

[PaxEthenica]

I used the realistic shotgun mechanics as a selling point to friends who went on to PAY MONEY.

 

I now cannot use this.

BAM! My point was just reinterated! Start your hand-wringing now.

[neKroMancer]

I used the realistic shotgun mechanics as a selling point to friends who went on to PAY MONEY.

 

I now cannot use this.

 

I'm interesting to hear the realistic shotgun mechanic would be. Can they consistently shoot someone in the head and OHK at 100 meter? 

[MJ12]

I believe that the falloff mechanic is necessary in balancing weapon variety in the game.

 

Before this patch, Hek was pretty much dominated the battlefield. Damage and accuracy were off the chart compared to other weapons. It was a FOO strategy to use the gun and kill everything at any range.

 

Is this desirable in the game with 20+ weapons? No, it's not.

 

Is the nerf that bad? I don't think so.

 

Damage falloff start around 15-20 meter and most of the engagement in the game occur within this range. At 40 meter (roughly), damage falls to abysmal level in order to balance things out. Giving shotgun and other weapons purposes and niches of their own is a good move. Do it now than do it later. The nature of the game, both PvP and PvE, require balance in order to promote diversity and prevent any strategy from dominating the playing field

 

However, if they take out the falloff mechanic - Be prepare for even more stat nerf that will change Hek into Claymore from ME3.

 

So they reduce the Hek's damage from 150 to 120. Considering how nobody complains about the Snipetron being ludicrously overpowered I'm pretty sure a 120 damage Hek would also not be overpowered. And you know, still capable of being an effective medium-range weapon.

 

The Hek's problem was that it had the highest damage as well as a solid fire rate and excellent accuracy. Its damage could have been nerfed instead of literally its main selling point.

 

I'm interesting to hear the realistic shotgun mechanic would be. Can they consistently shoot someone in the head and OHK at 100 meter? 

 

Um, yes? You know how in Crysis you could put a sniper scope on the shotgun and that wasn't actually useless? That's actually realistic. Shotguns are more than capable of getting perfect accuracy at average videogame engagement ranges.

Edited April 27, 2013 by MJ12

[ShimmerDoll]

Okay, that sentiment? That one right there? It should be a glaring red flag doused in gasoline, strapped to a monkey, and then lit on fire in the middle of a fireworks store. That's how much attention should be paid to it because that sort of sentiment translates into play-time, which translates into money, which translates into the longevity of this game, and the future march of its content.

 

Now, I'm not saying that Digital Extremes should be wringing their hands going, "oh noes! he's right! we're boned because we're stupid! do what the rabble says!" As personally gratifying as that would be, I know it's unreasonable, but still it should be a little bit worrying. If any of the guns suddenly aren't murder-boners, or at least satisfying to use at the high catalyzed 20's then people are going to stop using them. It's the nature of such an elastic luxury product.

Yeah I was going to buy the glaive too but if the hek, gorgon and fire rate on the pistols are all going to stay the way they are after todays patch, I don't see a reason to buy anything new ever. Eventually they will nerf it all. My biggest fear is that they will eventually do this same mistake to the actual warframes themselves. Like one day I will log on and find out Banshee, Ember, Rhino, Mag etc are suddenly not as good for some reason. Because of that feeling I won't be buying anything anymore no matter how great people say it is. I don't want to waste money on anything that will potentially be nerfed. I might as well just light my money on fire, same thing.

 

I feel dumb for buying the Hek and Gorgon after I worked so hard to rank up to use them, just to find out that after todays patch I should have just used the free stuff and I probably shouldn't have stayed up late those nights to get those last points in affinity to rank up to level 3 or 4. That was wasted time because the reward (those two guns) are useless to me now.  Even with the optional reset, I don't want re-level my characters all over again either. It's all a big domino effect that this patch kicked-off.

 

Before today's patch I would have bought pretty  much anything new if I thought it looked cool. Although to be honest the drop rate in this game was making me play alot less.

Edited April 27, 2013 by BloodDoll

[Krilion]

Crap. I just realized. There are about 5-10 of us really into this and everyone else is just dropping by to comment....

 

And shotguns are hella-accurate, especially with slug rounds. With slugs, they are basically heavy rifles, accurate to even beyond 100m. In STALKER, one of the first weapons is a shotgun... and it's your ending weapon too due to its accuracy, heavy damage, and ease of ammo finding. Thing is, STALKER knew it was OP, but it liked realism, so left it AS IS.

 

Everything about this game seems to push for sci-fi realism. Why not shotguns?

[PaxEthenica]

I believe that the falloff mechanic is necessary in balancing weapon variety in the game.

 

Before this patch, Hek was pretty much dominated the battlefield. Damage and accuracy were off the chart compared to other weapons. It was a FOO strategy to use the gun and kill everything at any range.

 

Is this desirable in the game with 20+ weapons? No, it's not.

 

Is the nerf that bad? I don't think so.

 

Damage falloff start around 15-20 meter and most of the engagement in the game occur within this range. At 40 meter (roughly), damage falls to abysmal level in order to balance things out. Giving shotgun and other weapons purposes and niches of their own is a good move. Do it now than do it later. The nature of the game, both PvP and PvE, require balance in order to promote diversity and prevent any strategy from dominating the playing field

 

However, if they take out the falloff mechanic - Be prepare for even more stat nerf that will change Hek into Claymore from ME3.

The HEK is used so wide-spread because it was such an efficient killer, yes, but likely only because it was their "big boy gun" that they used for farming mods and resources from the more difficult planetary chains. Why? So they could accrue better, more varied mods, and use the foundry to make new weapons for them to use. See how that works? How not nerfing a perfectly killtastic weapon doesn't, in the slightest, ultimately limit people to how many weapons they'll end up using and leveling up? How that completely invalidates your point?

[Diogenes161]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning_machine_gun

 

Gorgon prepatch = The M2 Machine Gun or Browning .50 Caliber Machine Gun.

 

Background on the Ma Deuce.

M2 as a sniper rifle

The M2 machine gun has also been used as a long-range sniper rifle, when equipped with a telescopic sight. Soldiers during the Korean War used scoped M2s in the role of a sniper rifle, but the practice was most notably used by US Marine Corps sniper Carlos Hathcock during the Vietnam War. Using an Unertl telescopic sight and a mounting bracket of his own design, Hathcock could quickly convert the M2 into a sniper rifle, using the traversing-and-elevating (T&E) mechanism attached to the tripod and a bolt on pistol grip kit that converts the M2 to fire semi-automatically by activating the trigger on the side plate to assist in aiming at stationary targets.^{[citation needed]} When firing semi-automatically, Hathcock hit man-size targets beyond 2000 yards—twice the range of a standard-caliber sniper rifle of the time (a .30-06 Winchester Model 70). In fact, Hathcock set the record for the longest confirmed kill at 2,460 yards or 1.3 miles (2,250 m), a record which stood until 2002.

 

Gorgon post patch? = The Chauchat. The worst machine gun in history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat

[Krilion]

Yeah I was going to buy the glaive too but if the hek, gorgon and fire rate on the pistols are all going to stay the way they are after todays patch, I don't see a reason to buy anything new ever. Eventually they will nerf it all. My biggest fear is that they will eventually do this same mistake to the actual warframes themselves. Like one day I will log on and find out Banshee, Ember, Rhino, Mag etc are suddenly not as good for some reason. Because of that feeling I won't be buying anything anymore no matter how great people say it is. I don't want to waste money on anything that will potentially be nerfed. I might as well just light my money on fire, same thing.

 

I feel dumb for buying the Hek and Gorgon after I worked so hard to rank up to use them, just to find out that after todays patch I should have just used the free stuff and I probably shouldn't have stayed up late those nights to get those last points in affinity to rank up to level 3 or 4. That was wasted time because the reward (those two guns) are useless to me now.  Even with the optional reset, I don't want re-level my characters all over again either. It's all a big domino effect that this patch kicked-off.

I know how you feel, man. I was using the Hek and Gorgon as my two primary for each mission. Both of my brand new guns got nerfed.