An Ember Buff/rework

[BlockshotOrange]

Obligatory first post comment.

 

Anyways, this long wall of text is going to be a personal take on a buff/rework of Ember.

 

I'll start by saying I love Ember. I've played her since the open beta days and she's always been my go-to warframe as a blazing damage dealer. Since then, there have been Damage 2.0, Melee 2.0, UI overhauls, Corpus and Grineer planets, and other warframe changes here and there. Ember, as of the current update, is probably the weakest frame to have for a few reasons.

 

1)Slow and Squishy

This is an oddball since squishy frames (Nova, Mirage, Loki for example) have good running speeds. Tankier frames (Frost, Rhino, Saryn) are slow, but they make up for it in absorbing damage. Ember is an oddball in this case since she's slow and fragile. She can't take two hits from a 40+ grineer without dying and she can't outrun charger mobs (unless you install a rush mod, but we'll leave it out in this case).

 

2)Damage dropoff in higher levels

I'll use World on Fire as an example of her damage falloff. At base damage, it does 400 per fire pillar and it lasts for 10 seconds. If you're looking for a CC ability, Avalanche, Miasma, Crush, Radial Javelin, Rhino Stomp, and a few other abilities are capable of doing a better job of clearing mobs than World on Fire. The base damage is only useful at lower levels and you'll start to struggle when the enemies are higher levelled.

 

3)No utility

As mentioned above, WOF is weak. However, Accelerant can help boost the damage of WOF. Sounds great? Not really.

First, it uses 50 energy to cast, which drains your energy pool really quickly.

Second, the damage boost only applies to fire damage. The only frame in a co-op party that's going to use pure fire damage in the entire mission will most likely be the one playing Ember.

I would also like to point out that although Accelerant has some utility (radial stun), its not as good as, let's say, Radial Blind. RB stuns enemies and blinds them, giving you some room for a breather. Compared to Accelerant, it stuns them but after the stun duration ends, they are going to pick up where they left off, leaving you with a small window of recovery.

 

4)Reliance on proper modding

Of the many warframes that are available in the latest update, Ember falls in the category of requiring all three power modifying traits (four if you have a spam build in mind). To elaborate, she has to balance Power Strength, Power Duration and Power Range to make the best out of her powers. With that many mods in use, she could potentially end up having little to no space for health or shield mods.

 

 

So, those are my gripes on Ember. Recent updates have changed many warframe abilities, so I thought Ember could use a rework.

 

Firstly, her sluggishness. Increase her running speed to about 1.1. Its highly unlikely that Overheat will make a return. So, if Ember is going to be a squishy mob destroyer like Nova, she should have the speed to spread her carnage.

 

Secondly, her abilities. I'll go at them one by one. And I'll use her base stats with no modding.

 

1)Fireball

Well, this one is fine as it is. 400 fire damage with 100% burny proc chance? I'll let this one slide.

 

2)Accelerant

As mentioned above, this is Embers only method of CC and a bit of utility. Plus, since it boosts fire damage, it compliments all her abilities. The only way I see this ability being synergised well with her other abilities is to use it, a lot. Drop its cost to 25, and increase the radius. I'm not sure if the stun duration can be increased but it would give Ember some room to recover if the stun duration is increased.

 

3)Fire Blast

The blast of fire on the initial casting is a good CC ability, but the fire ring is lackluster. It only does 150 damage and it only applies on the fire ring; enemies inside or outside the ring are unaffected.

Two choices for this rework:

 

A) This ability can be changed to a radial version of Oberons Hallowed Ground. The initial casting creates a radial blast of fire, and leaves behind a circular area of heated ground. Enemies take massive damage from the fire blast, and other enemies that run into the fire circle take damage over time.

Sounds pretty similar to its original design, but the damage of the initial fire blast is increased and the ring of fire is replaced with a radial area of fire.

 

B) Alternatively, Fire Blast can be transformed to a literal Fire Blast. When Ember slams the ground, an expanding globe of fire knocks enemies away from Ember, dealing fire damage to them.

Ever seen Mr Ruk or an Arson Eximus in action? Yeah, that kind of fire globe. This one is guaranteed to knock away any enemy regardless of their level. Kinda like Banshees Sonic Boom, but in an expanding radial form. This should give Ember some form of Crowd Control in the event that a horde of chargers decide to hug her. It should synergise with Accelerant as well, since it stuns surrounding mobs, giving her time to unleash Fire Blast.

(Credits to SteelSoldier for this idea)

 

4)World on Fire

As mentioned above, 400 damage per fire pillar for 10 seconds is very weak and very short for medium tier enemies. A few suggestions to make World on Fire a good skill to use.

 

 A) Increase its damage. I'm not too good on the math here since recent feedback has mentioned that there are many mod combinations that will change how much damage WOF is doing, but I think an increase to 600 should do.

 

 B) Remove the duration, turn it into a toggleable ability like Absorb and Sound Quake. 50 energy to activate and it drains 5 energy per second while its active. This removes Embers reliance on duration mods, allowing her to focus on damage and range.

 

 C) Include a speed buff for Ember while WOF is active. To elaborate, while WOF is activated, Ember gains a speed boost to spread the fiery chaos more effectively. It doesn't need to be x2 but a 20% to 30% speed boost would help Ember.

 

 D) Halve WOFs casting speed. This one is completely optional, since WOF is one of those abilities that can be cast while sliding or in midair. Similar to Mirage's Prism and Trinity's Blessing (<-pre-nerf), Ember is not immune to damage while casting WOF. So, a faster casting speed will help in WOF usage.

 

Those are my proposed changes for Ember. I'm posting this wall of text in support of an Ember buff. If the warframes are supposed to be powerful, lets make them all equally powerful.

 

I'll edit this post if new ideas appear.

 

Edit 1: Changed several descriptions and altered some skill modifications

Edit 2: Added alternate reworks to Fire Blast

Edited December 13, 2014 by BlockshotOrange

[f0rg0tten]

Could not agree more. Ember really needs some love nowadays, she isn't even as a effective against the infested anymore what with Ancient disruptors and swarm mutalist MOAs adding outrageous amounts of health and armor to other infested. Your ability buffs and changes sound great too, hopefully DE does something about this.

[Bibliothekar]

Sounds pretty good to me. I'd love to play her more often, but after seeing how lackluster she was in the Mutalist event ... I'm not even sure if I keep her as my "Anti-Infested" loadout.

[Azawarau]

I have the same issues with this as every other emer rework thread that uses the same tone

 

Youre grossly over exaggerating embers weaknesses and offwriting her strengths

 

For starters her health and shield are average

 

Her speed is average

 

Her WoF without accelerant rolls through lvl 30 enemies and with accelerant she can kill much farther

 

I dont know how you define higher tier but if its over 50 its irrelevant

 

Your example for Accelerant being bad is under the assumption youre notusing any efficiency mods or energy mods

 

Ember has a very high energy pool and high killing power to refill it after she casts so the energy point is lost

 

The boost from fire is so high that even if it affects the ember alone it more than justifies itself and still offers stun for the team

 

Accelerants actual stun time is only slightly lower and without the after blind effect but with the damage boost you can kill the enemies with any weapon you put fire on unlike RB so its a non issue

 

Adding speed literally does nothing for Ember. She wont dodge more bullets. She wont avoid knockdowns any better than before since shes close up. If anything her powers need more range and quicker cast. What does movement speed give her? Faster early mission rush time? Useful

 

Accelerant is fine as is

 

If reduced to 12 itll be treated the same way RB was. A spammable huge radial stun that makes ember into a one trick pony

 

Fire blast does 150 assuming you add no power strength mods and dont use accelerant

 

With power STR youll pass over 400 damage with the initial blast and over 400 per second ticks

 

Use accelerant and youre looking at 2000 dps assuming max power STR with stretch overextended and TF,BR,Intensify

 

If enemies get panicked when they enter theyre in for a bad time

 

Did you do any math at all for that WoF?

 

Thats massively overpowered

 

And again theres no point in adding more speed

 

Theres nothing she cant avoid already and it doesnt fix her problem

 

About the only good thing in this post is turning WoF into a toggle because that actually solves alot of her problems without giving her 10k damage for as long as she has energy

[SteelSoldier]

I would love a toggle for world on fire personally, it has a fairly long casting time that can put you in harms way if you arent very careful, by giving it a toggle it could help with longer fights, as long as you are efficient with energy it should last for a decent amount of time as well.

[Azawarau]

I would love a toggle for world on fire personally, it has a fairly long casting time that can put you in harms way if you arent very careful, by giving it a toggle it could help with longer fights, as long as you are efficient with energy it should last for a decent amount of time as well.

This is really it

 

With this she doesnt have to worry about narrow minded killing the range on her powers or having to use overextended to balance it out and losing power STR

 

She frees 1-3 mod slots on WoF builds (keeping in mind that duration affects the accelerant debuff and the time on fireblast so there is a balance there still)

 

Theres also the balance of energy cost for max power STR with the toggle and the strength of accelerant and fire blast

 

Perfect solution all around is such a small change...

 

It really is the best move for her

[Bibliothekar]

Did you do any math at all for that WoF?

 

Thats massively overpowered

Not really. I took her for one run in the Mutalist Survival. While I was casting Accelerant every minute to keep the damage of WoF up, the two Saryns in my squad just rushed into the room, coughed up a Miasma and everything died. Funny thing is, that my Fireballs did more damage (or so it seemed) than WoF. WoF-pillar erupted under an enemy, they shrugged it of. I threw a Fireball at them and they lost at least half their health. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

Anyway, I too think that making WoF toggle-able would be a good start. OP's suggestion for Fire Blast might make a good augment.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[Donutdude]

From what I understand, World on Fire is in the state it is because of how overbearing it was when Ember was vanilla.

 

I think 1000 per pillar is a little excessive due to the combo with Accelerant.  You could reach some crazy damage numbers when using these two together with your proposed changes.  I do, however, like the idea of it being toggle-based, though again you could argue that running PWR STH at max efficiency would make it overbearing again.

[Azawarau]

Not really. I took her for one run in the Mutalist Survival. While I was casting Accelerant every minute to keep the damage of WoF up, the two Saryns in my squad just rushed into the room, coughed up a Miasma and everything died. Funny thing is, that my Fireballs did more damage (or so it seemed) than WoF. WoF-pillar erupted under an enemy, they shrugged it of. I threw a Fireball at them and they lost at least half their health. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

Anyway, I too think that making WoF toggle-able would be a good start. OP's suggestion for Fire Blast might make a good augment.

The damage ticks could pass 10k if my math isnt as bad as i know it is

 

Thats way too much

 

Between blind rage and TF she actually has alot of power now

 

Its not that ember is weak

 

Its that she scales farther with mods so you really have to invest in her

[SteelSoldier]

If they dont add the toggle for WoF, they could potentially increase the duration of the ability and also reduce the amount it takes to cast it.

[Azawarau]

If they dont add the toggle for WoF, they could potentially increase the duration of the ability and also reduce the amount it takes to cast it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Kasseopea]

Ember should be the frame with the most damage - its fire ffs. However, she basically does nothing at higher levels. She is great if you want to run a no-brainer capture in void for T1-T2, but everything above and you are so immensely #*(&#036;%%@, you wont even know how to even (thats what kids say nowadays, right?).

 

Anyways, buff Ember.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Accelerant is fine as is

 

If reduced to 12 itll be treated the same way RB was. A spammable huge radial stun that makes ember into a one trick pony

 

You know why buffing that ability would turn her into a one-trick pony? Because right now she has none at all. She's lost, with no purpose and no role to truly excel in.

[Kazur90]

Her speed is average

 

Her WoF without accelerant rolls through lvl 30 enemies and with accelerant she can kill much farther

 

I agree with some of your points, but I have some points that am against.

 

1.0 speed is not average, 1.05 is avarage (Hydroid is speed) in this game. and we have more frames with 1.1+(12 frames) than 1.0-(10 frames, counting with hydroid).

And Ember as a caster warframe, need speed, to cover bigger are with skills and make use of accelerant in the middle of groups of enemies.

 

also some one make the math of HP efficiency of all frames, and ember was in the lowerest tier because her armor, and all the others frames in the same tier have better speed.

 

even nyx have a speed of 1.1. Zephir have a speed of 1.15.

 

I agree that accelerant dont need 25 energy cost, but need stun of 3 seconds + duration and wider range.

 

and at least, in my opinion, WoF is fire pillars should have a aoe of 3 to 5 meters and maybe a small damage buff to 500.

 

the better build to ember is full efficiency+duration, to span accelerant to maximize her fire damage and to have time to cast WoF(that animation is soooo slow)

 

PS.: Not going to speak more... write in English is difficult to me.

Edited December 10, 2014 by KazurBR

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

the better build to ember is full efficiency+duration, to span accelerant to maximize her fire damage and to have time to cast WoF(that animation is soooo slow)

 

PS.: Not going to speak more... write in English is difficult to me.

 

This is another thing that makes no sense to me. Ember is a squishy frame with no speed and an ultimate that requires short range, yet has a painfully slow cast. Sure, Natural Talent makes it half as slow, but a frame shouldn't need a mod to fix the fact that her abilities clash with her stats.

[SandwitchPrime]

I have the same issues with this as every other emer rework thread that uses the same tone

 

Youre grossly over exaggerating embers weaknesses and offwriting her strengths

 

For starters her health and shield are average

 

Her speed is average

 

Her WoF without accelerant rolls through lvl 30 enemies and with accelerant she can kill much farther

 

I dont know how you define higher tier but if its over 50 its irrelevant

 

Your example for Accelerant being bad is under the assumption youre notusing any efficiency mods or energy mods

 

Ember has a very high energy pool and high killing power to refill it after she casts so the energy point is lost

 

The boost from fire is so high that even if it affects the ember alone it more than justifies itself and still offers stun for the team

 

Accelerants actual stun time is only slightly lower and without the after blind effect but with the damage boost you can kill the enemies with any weapon you put fire on unlike RB so its a non issue

 

Adding speed literally does nothing for Ember. She wont dodge more bullets. She wont avoid knockdowns any better than before since shes close up. If anything her powers need more range and quicker cast. What does movement speed give her? Faster early mission rush time? Useful

 

Accelerant is fine as is

 

If reduced to 12 itll be treated the same way RB was. A spammable huge radial stun that makes ember into a one trick pony

 

Fire blast does 150 assuming you add no power strength mods and dont use accelerant

 

With power STR youll pass over 400 damage with the initial blast and over 400 per second ticks

 

Use accelerant and youre looking at 2000 dps assuming max power STR with stretch overextended and TF,BR,Intensify

 

If enemies get panicked when they enter theyre in for a bad time

 

Did you do any math at all for that WoF?

 

Thats massively overpowered

 

And again theres no point in adding more speed

 

Theres nothing she cant avoid already and it doesnt fix her problem

 

About the only good thing in this post is turning WoF into a toggle because that actually solves alot of her problems without giving her 10k damage for as long as she has energy

her defensive abilities are not average, despite her average shield and health, because of her lack of regen, DR or reliable CCsand her offense made up for no part of it.

though her speed is average among the warframes, she still need to cover a lot a ground and run in the middle of crowds to make use of her WoF, thus speed buff will certainly benefit her.

energy pool counts for S#&$ plz dont bother mentioning it. 150 should be enough for any warframe.

2000DPS still isn't as good as most other warframes, considering the long cast time(even with natural talent) and the risk it puts her in.

though i do agree 1000 per tick is way too OP.

giving WoF a shorter cast time and CC( knock down, stun, or 100% fire proc for fire stun) as well as toggle would be enought to balance her out

also accel's cost should be reduced to 25, with 50 energy a saryn would be able to clear a medicore level crowd, twice. only for balance sake.

Fire blast is a piece of crap as usual it doesn't deserve to exist

Edited December 10, 2014 by SandwitchPrime

[SteelSoldier]

 The main issue with World on Fire is as follows:

 

 -Almost 2 Seconds of Casting Time

 -10 Seconds Duration

 -You have to cast the ability again after it is over leaving you vulnerable, not doing anything during that time

 

 If you use Continuity and narrow minded you can increase the duration to 23 Seconds, then you got to use Stretch Overextended to compensate for the range decrease, then use a Intensify with Blind Rage or Transient Fortitude, The main problem here is that you will need Fleeting Expertise and a streamline in order to increase effiency, a fully maxed fleeting expertise will lower the duration of your WoF by 6 seconds.

 

In other words, your WoF might last something between 13-17 Seconds depending on the mods that you use and if you are going for Fleeting Expertise, which is insanely good for efficiency purposes and you will need it.

 

13-17 seconds arent all that much sadly, and you are still vulnerable during the casting time, so I have a couple of solutions:

 

First Solution:

 

Decrease Casting Time on WoF by half a second and buff the duration by at least 2 seconds

 

Second Solution:

 

Make WoF a toggle ability, the casting time can remain the same, and since there is a toggle it will consume the energy needed to cast WoF after the time runs out on it, if it needs to balanced, make it use the amount of energy needed plus an extra % of the cost of WoF

 

Third Solution(Not the best):

Give Ember 50% Damage Reduction during the casting animation.

[BlockshotOrange]

Two reasons why I proposed these changes; To make her viable for higher level damage dealing and because I'm getting sick and tired of being two swiped by a level 40+ charger that I couldn't kill in time.

 

It's probably my fault on my side that I only included base damage without including mods, but even modding her is too tricky.

Power strength? Use up your energy pool too quickly.

Strength + Efficiency? WOF lasts for a sneeze.

Strength + Efficiency + Duration? Might as well hug them.

Strength + Efficiency + Duration + Range? This sounds like the most optimal build until you realise you have no space for health and shield mods.

 

Take Vauban or Nova for example: All they need is to max out on duration, add an optional range mod, and they still have room for a shield mod or two.

 

Adding speed literally does nothing for Ember. She wont dodge more bullets. She wont avoid knockdowns any better than before since shes close up. If anything her powers need more range and quicker cast. What does movement speed give her? Faster early mission rush time? Useful

 

What would you suggest to compensate for the slow speed? Coptering? You mean I can run a mission with my Dragon Nikana or Jat Kittag without getting left behind?

A sprint speed increase does not translate to ending missions quicker, it means moving around the field faster. If the Lotus wants us to capture a target, most will say use Volt or Loki (I personally do this too).

I agree when you say a sprint speed boost won't avoid bullets or knockdowns, but the added sprint will make a difference when heading for cover or running to a downed teammate or a chance to avoid a ground punch from a heavy gunner or a bombard.

Besides, since WOF has an average radius (15m base), wouldn't you need the speed to catch up with whatever you'd want to burn?

 

Accelerant, like Radial Blind, doesn't need to be spammable, but it's her only stun ability. As I said before, Radial Blind BLINDS enemies, leaving them unable to attack you. Accelerant only stuns, and I've seen chargers twitch for a second before they continue attacking.

If Accelerant is not to be spammed, then its just an 'OH S##T' button. The change to make it cheaper and with a wider AOE is to make sure that everything else that is still standing, will be burnt to a crisp.
 

 

Not really. I took her for one run in the Mutalist Survival. While I was casting Accelerant every minute to keep the damage of WoF up, the two Saryns in my squad just rushed into the room, coughed up a Miasma and everything died. Funny thing is, that my Fireballs did more damage (or so it seemed) than WoF. WoF-pillar erupted under an enemy, they shrugged it of. I threw a Fireball at them and they lost at least half their health. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

Anyway, I too think that making WoF toggle-able would be a good start. OP's suggestion for Fire Blast might make a good augment.

 

Bibliothekar nails this one on her WOF + Accelerant. Especially super strength uber spamming Saryns. Curses to them.

Pretty ironic that the frame that seems geared to go up against Infested is not doing her job properly, as compared to frames that were geared for other factions.

 

1000 damage for WOF seems too excessive , but once you go up to infested mobs on Eris, it'll make a difference.

WOFs base damage at 400 is only effective at lower level mobs. Properly modded for strength builds can make it more effective for even higher levels, but as mentioned above, there are a lot of trade-offs when you mod her for power strength.

 

I'd want to see Ember capable of running a high level Infested mission without her being revived or dying, and that is my explanation to all my proposed changes for her.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Ember is a Damage dealing Firewalker. As quoted by the wiki: "Ember is a fire-based warframe that relies on almost purely offensive skills with the balance of fragility". If Ember is going to perform tonnes of fire damage, then buff her to do what she's supposed to do.

Edited December 10, 2014 by BlockshotOrange

[traybong111]

I wish WoF wasn't a pure damage dealer and had something else, you know, like a lot of other ults. Maybe increase its target cap to 4, give each explosion an AoE blast (affected by range yes) that can stagger or stun nearby enemies. I mean her Fireball with Stretch can instakill a group and then stun some other things that didn't instadie...so why isn't a constant stream of fire bursting from the very ground not doing something similar?!

And let's just accept that she never had and still doesn't have a third ability. I think a wide knockdown a la Arson Eximus is the most 'defensive' her toolkit could be. Default 75 is a good cost for a defensive ability of a damage-oriented frame.

[SteelSoldier]

 The only problem I have is that they probably want to make Ember, the Damage Specialized Warframe.

 

 I would absolutely love if Fire Blast had some form of cc as traybong suggested it, possibly one thing that could happen is take the ring of fire portion of it, and just make it something in the lines of this:

 

The first part is the explosion that happens inside the actual ring, all enemies inside the ring will be knocked back, then the rest of explosion spreads, only dealing damage to enemies that get hit by it.

[Azawarau]

You know why buffing that ability would turn her into a one-trick pony? Because right now she has none at all. She's lost, with no purpose and no role to truly excel in.

Ignoring how wrong what you just said is

 

WHY DID YOU NOT TAKE THAT CHANCE TO SAY "NO ROLE TO TRULY ACCEL IN"

 

I agree with some of your points, but I have some points that am against.

 

1.0 speed is not average, 1.05 is avarage (Hydroid is speed) in this game. and we have more frames with 1.1+(12 frames) than 1.0-(10 frames, counting with hydroid).

And Ember as a caster warframe, need speed, to cover bigger are with skills and make use of accelerant in the middle of groups of enemies.

 

also some one make the math of HP efficiency of all frames, and ember was in the lowerest tier because her armor, and all the others frames in the same tier have better speed.

 

even nyx have a speed of 1.1. Zephir have a speed of 1.15.

 

I agree that accelerant dont need 25 energy cost, but need stun of 3 seconds + duration and wider range.

 

and at least, in my opinion, WoF is fire pillars should have a aoe of 3 to 5 meters and maybe a small damage buff to 500.

 

the better build to ember is full efficiency+duration, to span accelerant to maximize her fire damage and to have time to cast WoF(that animation is soooo slow)

 

PS.: Not going to speak more... write in English is difficult to me.

I rounded down

 

The .5 difference isnt noticeable

 

Ember is a close range caster

 

All she needs is for her ability to cast and sustain casting close up to be sustainable and reliable

 

Right now its definitely reliable

 

The problem is sustaining it for long

 

WoF duration is low and cast time is long

 

Between power STR and the clash of fleeting,narrow minded, and overextended killing one power or another she just cant keep it all up well enough

 

The range and stun on accelerant would be more than fine if WoF were a toggle

 

The issues always come back to WoF with her

 

An AoE of 3 meters and small damage buff would be ok i think

 

And dont worry about your english

 

Its probably better than mine

 

her defensive abilities are not average, despite her average shield and health, because of her lack of regen, DR or reliable CCsand her offense made up for no part of it.

though her speed is average among the warframes, she still need to cover a lot a ground and run in the middle of crowds to make use of her WoF, thus speed buff will certainly benefit her.

energy pool counts for S#&$ plz dont bother mentioning it. 150 should be enough for any warframe.

2000DPS still isn't as good as most other warframes, considering the long cast time(even with natural talent) and the risk it puts her in.

though i do agree 1000 per tick is way too OP.

giving WoF a shorter cast time and CC( knock down, stun, or 100% fire proc for fire stun) as well as toggle would be enought to balance her out

also accel's cost should be reduced to 25, with 50 energy a saryn would be able to clear a medicore level crowd, twice. only for balance sake.

Fire blast is a piece of crap as usual it doesn't deserve to exist

Her reliable CC is accelerant alone

 

She also has fire blast that CCs a bit

 

Fireball that CCs a bit

 

And WoF that can CC a bit

 

The other three are aless reliable aside from fire blasts 100% heat proc on cast but with accelernt she has a ton of CC

 

The thing is you have to cast with her

 

Shes a caster

 

The issue with saryn is saryn. Her miasma is extremely strong

 

Take into consideration you can use acceletant and mow down enemies for as much as 7x? Damage with TF now

 

Equipping a primary built with alot of fire is very rewarding and not too expensive

 

Again pointing to WoF being the big issue

 

Two reasons why I proposed these changes; To make her viable for higher level damage dealing and because I'm getting sick and tired of being two swiped by a level 40+ charger that I couldn't kill in time.

 

It's probably my fault on my side that I only included base damage without including mods, but even modding her is too tricky.

Power strength? Use up your energy pool too quickly.

Strength + Efficiency? WOF lasts for a sneeze.

Strength + Efficiency + Duration? Might as well hug them.

Strength + Efficiency + Duration + Range? This sounds like the most optimal build until you realise you have no space for health and shield mods.

 

Take Vauban or Nova for example: All they need is to max out on duration, add an optional range mod, and they still have room for a shield mod or two.

 

 

What would you suggest to compensate for the slow speed? Coptering? You mean I can run a mission with my Dragon Nikana or Jat Kittag without getting left behind?

A sprint speed increase does not translate to ending missions quicker, it means moving around the field faster. If the Lotus wants us to capture a target, most will say use Volt or Loki (I personally do this too).

I agree when you say a sprint speed boost won't avoid bullets or knockdowns, but the added sprint will make a difference when heading for cover or running to a downed teammate or a chance to avoid a ground punch from a heavy gunner or a bombard.

Besides, since WOF has an average radius (15m base), wouldn't you need the speed to catch up with whatever you'd want to burn?

 

Accelerant, like Radial Blind, doesn't need to be spammable, but it's her only stun ability. As I said before, Radial Blind BLINDS enemies, leaving them unable to attack you. Accelerant only stuns, and I've seen chargers twitch for a second before they continue attacking.

If Accelerant is not to be spammed, then its just an 'OH S##T' button. The change to make it cheaper and with a wider AOE is to make sure that everything else that is still standing, will be burnt to a crisp.

 

 

 

Bibliothekar nails this one on her WOF + Accelerant. Especially super strength uber spamming Saryns. Curses to them.

Pretty ironic that the frame that seems geared to go up against Infested is not doing her job properly, as compared to frames that were geared for other factions.

 

1000 damage for WOF seems too excessive , but once you go up to infested mobs on Eris, it'll make a difference.

WOFs base damage at 400 is only effective at lower level mobs. Properly modded for strength builds can make it more effective for even higher levels, but as mentioned above, there are a lot of trade-offs when you mod her for power strength.

 

I'd want to see Ember capable of running a high level Infested mission without her being revived or dying, and that is my explanation to all my proposed changes for her.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Ember is a Damage dealing Firewalker. As quoted by the wiki: "Ember is a fire-based warframe that relies on almost purely offensive skills with the balance of fragility". If Ember is going to perform tonnes of fire damage, then buff her to do what she's supposed to do.

To be fair

 

Vauban and nova are OP

 

And an optimal nova build needs 6 base mods (3 power STR and 3 power duration) leaving you two for defense utility

 

Assuming with ember one is going for a high damage build that has some defense....

 

D Nikana and Jat can use air melee as a very viable sub for coptering you know

 

Heavy weapons arent bad at it now

 

Ember shouldnt be headed to cover

 

Shes a close range frame, she should be casting spells so she doesnt have to take cover

 

Thats what accelerant is for

 

And accelerant doesnt just stun

 

Its a huge damage buff that you should be taking advantage of

 

With that power you can kill the enemy and move on

[Bibliothekar]

 and just make it something in the lines of this:

So basically make her Fire Blast the same that Sargas Ruk and the Eximi have?

[SteelSoldier]

 The casting time on her WoF is 2.2 Seconds, if it gets lowered to 1.5 or less, and the Duration on all levels is increased by at least 3 seconds, it would solve the problem ember has, then you can use accelerant to keep increasing the damage you are doing with WoF and use skills and your weapons as necessary to deal with the situation.

 

 3 Seconds might not sound like a lot, but a rank 6 narrow mind and continuity mod, you are essentially getting 8,19+3,9=12,09 Seconds, whereas with 10 seconds duration you would get 6,3+3=9,3 Seconds

 

The increased duration would make it so you would have a 25,09 Seconds WoF on Ember instead of a 19,3 Seconds one

 

Not only that, with a maxed fleeting expertise, you are still getting 19,89 Seconds WoF instead of 13,3 Seconds, which overall is a 50% increase in duration time.

 

And those extra seconds and reduced casting time will make ember far better than an overall damage increase on the skill, since you wont waste as much time casting WoF and you can focus on using other abilities and weapons

[BlockshotOrange]

 The casting time on her WoF is 2.2 Seconds, if it gets lowered to 1.5 or less, and the Duration on all levels is increased by at least 3 seconds, it would solve the problem ember has, then you can use accelerant to keep increasing the damage you are doing with WoF and use skills and your weapons as necessary to deal with the situation.

 

 3 Seconds might not sound like a lot, but a rank 6 narrow mind and continuity mod, you are essentially getting 8,19+3,9=12,09 Seconds, whereas with 10 seconds duration you would get 6,3+3=9,3 Seconds

 

The increased duration would make it so you would have a 25,09 Seconds WoF on Ember instead of a 19,3 Seconds one

 

Not only that, with a maxed fleeting expertise, you are still getting 19,89 Seconds WoF instead of 13,3 Seconds, which overall is a 50% increase in duration time.

 

And those extra seconds and reduced casting time will make ember far better than an overall damage increase on the skill, since you wont waste as much time casting WoF and you can focus on using other abilities and weapons

 

This^

 

Embers problem, besides scaling, has always been having to balance out range, strength, and duration for her to be effective in her damage dealing playstyle.

Even if the changes I proposed are not implemented, at least what should be changed, is her reliance on duration. Let her focus on power strength and range, and she will do better than what she is now.

 

And yes, Accelerant isn't only for stuns, its a huge damage booster. But right now, as she is, she needs to synergise both the damage dealing abilities and her Accelerant debuff; All this is going to use up a lot of casting time and it leaves her open to attacks. Shortening her casting speed will also help her.

 

@Azawarau

Of course she doesn't need to go for cover if she's a close ranged frame casting all the abilities, but it doesn't mean it's not a viable tactic.

If taking cover protects you from heavy gunfire, she should have the running speed to do so.

 

Also, about the air melee? I just use it for jumping high platforms, not as a substitute for coptering. You made a good point about this method of moving around faster, but personally, I still prefer holding the shift key than to press key combos repetitively.

 

Everybody has different playstyles.

[BlockshotOrange]

 The only problem I have is that they probably want to make Ember, the Damage Specialized Warframe.

 

 I would absolutely love if Fire Blast had some form of cc as traybong suggested it, possibly one thing that could happen is take the ring of fire portion of it, and just make it something in the lines of this:

 

The first part is the explosion that happens inside the actual ring, all enemies inside the ring will be knocked back, then the rest of explosion spreads, only dealing damage to enemies that get hit by it.

 

@SteelSoldier

 

Good idea for turning Fire Blast into an expanding globe of fire, but I still have concerns for those that are still alive after the initial blast. Don't forget those that are hiding in cover and anyone obstructed by the worlds objects.

 

I'd still prefer to have Fire Blast turned into a derivative of Hallowed Ground. Radial fire explosion, and leaves a radial area of fire. It helps her when engaging in close quarters.