So You Really Want To Fix Shotguns De? Read This.

[TheWebbliestPrime]

This looks like a big TL;DR version of the argument already repeated over and over:"Remove falloff, the spread does that!" which only makes sense if the game uses the same shells for every shotgun with these conventional spreads. As soon as you want to make a shotgun that is throwing anything but ordinary 12ga this whole thought process goes out the window. Tainted Shell would also turn every shotgun into a sniper rifle or bow.

Yeah, and to be honest, if you're looking for realism in a scifi space shooter, then you're kinda looking for something that doesn't exist. Besides, say DE  decides to make a shotgun that shoots sluglike rounds, what then?

[TheBulitt]

Its not that I'm looking for realism per se, I'm just pointing out that by following the path of realism, you will achieve the goals of making shotguns more effective at the role they are supposed to play. The conical spread of the current model actually significantly hurts the damage that shotguns have, in the first 10m and as OriKlein pointed out, especially at medium ranges(20-40M or the "orange zone" in my diagram).

 

I think everyone here is just so inundated with this conical spread from every single other hitscan videogame (COD, CS, QUAKE, the list is long!) that they assume that's how its supposed to be. At the full length of any interior corpus tileset, say the Hyena room, you should still get a good 30% of pellets on target, but the damage they will do is negligible. The part that I hate (and I'm sure I'm not alone) is that you have to MISS to actually LAND pellets on a target at even medium distances. The conical spread is a videogame trope that makes shotguns the inferior mess that everyone assumes they should be.

 

10 meter impact

 

20 meters

 

40 meters Im sure you "city folks" would appreciate the damage model demonstrated in this video :D

 

50 meter impact (previously shot buckshot pattern is only ~15" wide) it (the slug) doesn't even shake the paper target or even kick up much sand on the berm behind it

 

So as to your question about a special "slug" shotgun that DE could make, it would still suffer from the same problems at long range that any other round would, the theory of general relativity (Energy = Mass * Velocity^2) Energy translating directly into damage.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQs2jcisMfA If you only watch one video on this entire thread its this one -  riding on that coach bouncing up and down from a pretty significant distance and you get that many hits on target...

Edited December 14, 2014 by TheBulitt

[Blimp01]

I would like to see this too. The shotgun pellets shouldn't just spread linearly forever. They should spread linearly, then stop spreading (maybe around 50 meters), with the loss of velocity. After that they should just slowly arc back down.

[Tyrian3k]

I feel like this suggestion is making things far more complicated than it needs to be.

 

Also I see no reason why the shots should stop spreading without disagreeing with the laws of momentum.

 

Also consider that your video shows birdshot which definitely isn't what any of the shotguns use. You're looking for buckshot which doesn't necessarily behave the same way since the balls are far heavier.

 

According to this page, buckshot spreads very much in a linear fashion and its most limiting factor in damage is the pellets spreading, not the loss of velocity.

 

That said, the most realistic fix is removing falloff and keeping the spread as it is.

[TheBulitt]

Thats the thing they stop spreading just as they begin to lose velocity, the only thing that causes the pellets to spread is the intrusion of ballistic speed wind forces getting in between each pellet and separating them, once the wake between each pellet has stabilized they stop spreading each other apart, its just not as apparent because at the same time they stop spreading apart is the same time they stop flying at supersonic speeds. The laws of momentum says that the forward momentum is the only momentum, the only force that acts to spread them apart is caused by their forward momentum creating supersonic shockwaves around each pellet. Once the momentum reduces below supersonic, the wakes of each pellet stop affecting each other.

 

Its exactly like when a skydiver pulls the cord on his parachute, the parachute streams upwards out of his backback, then once sufficient air has gotten between each of the cords, the parachute collects the air pressure and it suddenly shoots open.

Edited December 17, 2014 by TheBulitt

[Tyrian3k]

Thats the thing they stop spreading just as they begin to lose velocity, the only thing that causes the pellets to spread is the intrusion of ballistic speed wind forces getting in between each pellet and separating them, once the wake between each pellet has stabilized they stop spreading each other apart, its just not as apparent because at the same time they stop spreading apart is the same time they stop flying at supersonic speeds. The laws of momentum says that the forward momentum is the only momentum, the only force that acts to spread them apart is caused by their forward momentum creating supersonic shockwaves around each pellet. Once the momentum reduces below supersonic, the wakes of each pellet stop affecting each other.

 

That's not how physics work. If they start moving apart from each other they won't just stop for no reason even if there is no force pushing them apart any more. It conflicts with Newton's first law unless you specify what exact force there is that stops the spreading.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP