Scyris Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'm sorry but I am so tired of conencting to people, getting in game, then the lag is so bad everything moves like a slide show (its not video lag my fps is like 100+), pickups take ages to actually get picked up, hits don't register, mobs glitch the hell out. The game really needs to be hosted on a central server everyone connects to, I don't know if its the net coding or what, but this is the worse peer 2 peer connection system I have ever used, never seen lag this bad. if I am the host its fine, and people tend to not lag when I host from what I heard after asking them, something really needs to be done to fix this. Also p.s. devs, stop making stupid &#! nerfs that are not needed like the gorgon and shotguns, shotguns atm aren't even useable now due to them being bugged (not talking about the fall off damage, they just do less than half than they used to, and no its not body shoting grenner either). If you want people to use varying weapons, then stop making new weapons that are generally trash compared to the rest of the stuff thats avail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyfe3rX Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Oh my bloody god... who the hell even down voted this ? Which part of this post is bad ? New servers ? No need for nerfs ? Which one is bad ? Bloody trolls ~.# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegajinn Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Shotguns are still "usable" but become a liability during higher level missions due to the swarms of hard hitting enemies and the necessity of being in close in order to be effective. The Hek in particular should never have been a sniper but this nerf did make the weapon practically useless during more difficult missions. Nerfs should be done in smaller increments and not in this heavy handed, knee jerk fashion that seems to plague the less experienced game studios. With the drop rate nerf, the abort/fail reward nerf, the uber increase to all enemy shield and hitpoint values, all of this combined only serves to suck the fun out of the game and I hope that in the future the Devs start to use a more reserved approach to such game affecting changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuiseh Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I fully agree on the p2p stuff, suffering massively from connection issues every damn day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keie Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/entries/23612001--5-Game-Host-Lag - UK Virgin media. - German Vodaphone. - East Europeans being a$$#£*&s and setting themself as west. It shouldn't be hard for the software to test the connection before joining a host to get rid of this extreme lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinFoilMkIV Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I have to say, you guys probably never played a p2p connection game with a significant playerbase then, as these problems are essentially impossible to get rid of completely. You can't code a game to account for every kind of connection and interaction between players networks. I expect there will be some fixes/cleanup to improve overall connections, but there will always be players with issues, or players that have issues with specific other players just due to connection conflicts, not necessarily a bad connection in general. Also unfortunately as a side effect of having a fair amount of active games in any given mission means you actually have an increased chance of hitting those bad hosts relative to the number of good hosts, as the good ones will fill quickly and go on their way, while the bad hosts are more likely to have players leave clearing up new spots for you to get thrown into. Anyways while I agree that we could definitely use improvement these problems are never going to go away completely. You can't simply switch over to a server based setup, it's a heck of a lot more complicated than just saying "set connection type to server" and may not even be reasonable to attempt at this point even if funding new equipment and coding wasn't an issue. As a tip, if you have a friend you play with, or even get someone who wants to do the same area as you from general chat, if you create a group in the lobby before entering a mission, the group leader will be the host. If you join solo you will get thrown into a random persons game most of the time. If you're running into a lot of connection problems with random hosts, best bet is to avoid them when possible. As for the nerfs, welcome to beta. Bugs will be bugs, not like they bug weapons when they make changes on purpose. And yes, the changes may have been too extreme, but DE is very good at listening to us and making adjustments, sometimes you just can't be sure how something is going to work out exactly till it hits the actual game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Buy founder pack. Support the dev. Using P2P is an alternative which cut the maintaining cost. Maintaining servers globally is a lot of money. DE is an Indy studio without publisher backing them up. I suppose he OP already set the region to an appropriate one already. The more players playing in the selected region, the less lagging it will be. I already comment several times about the shotgun falloff issue. Wait for the dev's response on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintLucifer Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 They already said that they don't have a publisher to be able to maintain a real server yet, so there is nothing they can do till some company decide to embrace the idea and sponsor then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theter Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Rage troll post/ Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afroman12 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) P2P is the only way most F2Ps can work unless they already own servers like Valve with TF2. Why? Because they have to pay rent on their servers and the game isn't making a steady income via subscribers. One year they could not make quota and would not be able to pay for the servers and would have to enter debt to pay for them. Some refuse to enter debt or go further (Nexon for example) and just call it quits on the game. Plus there is also upkeep and finding viable servers to handle the load Warframe does and that would mean some high quality ones. So maybe something around the 75,000 price range a year plus they'd need one for each continent and if they want stability in the US/EU they'd need more than one. So yeah that's expensive as F***. So no. Edit: To answer your P2P problem it's most likely due to NAT, host having terrible internet, or foreigners coming into US/Canada games so... yeah. That's why F2P games really region lock. What they should really work on is a system that picks the best host for the match but that is a difficult and time consuming program that has A LOT of possible bugs so... that's shifty territory. Edited April 28, 2013 by BakaGamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afroman12 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 They already said that they don't have a publisher to be able to maintain a real server yet, so there is nothing they can do till some company decide to embrace the idea and sponsor then. As long as it isn't EA we're golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjarri Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Question, can they not have just a few dedicated servers to further the p2p connection with tunnels/proxy-like features? That would feasibly be at lot cheaper since less server usage than if they were hosting. As it is now, it seems like direct p2p to and from the host, which can have loads of problems that a tunnel may fix. (Network noob, I have been bad enough with these things to tunnel through a tunnel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afroman12 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Question, can they not have just a few dedicated servers to further the p2p connection with tunnels/proxy-like features? That would feasibly be at lot cheaper since less server usage than if they were hosting. As it is now, it seems like direct p2p to and from the host, which can have loads of problems that a tunnel may fix. (Network noob, I have been bad enough with these things to tunnel through a tunnel) You mean like a Proxy Server Transfer? We're knida doing that now actually. I'd need a picture to be more helpful but what's happening now is each of us is lightly connected to one of Warframes servers to send and receive data on damage, kills, and items. The majority load is going to p2p as we connect to a single persons computer and use them as a server. So distance, internet upload/download speed, router, firewalls, and NAT are all playing factors here. Adding another server would be kinda pointless as all it would just do is be another light connection with sending and receiving light data. Unless you're saying we need a server to knida pick who's host or something then the server were connected to now should be able to handle something like that... or might need a slight upgrade as traffic seems heavy. Or what you're asking is can they have a server for further distance people to connect better to and the answer to that is no as even though they are already far adding a "checkpoint" isn't going to increase their internet speed strength. That ship has sailed. Edited April 28, 2013 by BakaGamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeshield Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 - UK Virgin media. I'm failing to see why Virgin Media is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keie Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'm failing to see why Virgin Media is the problem. The game uses UDP, Virgin media runs traffic management making UDP bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renan.Ruivo Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'm sorry but I am so tired of conencting to people, getting in game, then the lag is so bad everything moves like a slide show (its not video lag my fps is like 100+), pickups take ages to actually get picked up, hits don't register, mobs glitch the hell out. The game really needs to be hosted on a central server everyone connects to, I don't know if its the net coding or what, but this is the worse peer 2 peer connection system I have ever used, never seen lag this bad. if I am the host its fine, and people tend to not lag when I host from what I heard after asking them, something really needs to be done to fix this. Also p.s. devs, stop making stupid &#! nerfs that are not needed like the gorgon and shotguns, shotguns atm aren't even useable now due to them being bugged (not talking about the fall off damage, they just do less than half than they used to, and no its not body shoting grenner either). If you want people to use varying weapons, then stop making new weapons that are generally trash compared to the rest of the stuff thats avail. I agree with you, but you have to take the Warframe team's resources into account here. This "server" you're asking for is not a simple server. The only "big" server that the Warframe team has is a database server and, as we've seen in several occasions, it tends to go apeS#&$. I'd rather have them leave this as it is, P2P, while they work on more important thigns. After all is said and done, we can look at a central server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toastmasta Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Most reputable games on steam have a lobby system in place for p2p games (left 4 dead). This allows you to see what kind of connection you are playing on. This will solve a lot of headaches. Unless every person I connect to is in Europe or playing on a dial up , then the p2p system in warframe is terribly flawed. Never have i experienced such terrible lag/hiccups/frame loss as I have in public games here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toastmasta Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Ever heard of a hack ridden f2p game called combat arms? That is just as bad in terms of network latency. Just to add to my point. So unless games like that are a model, then there's a lot that can be done still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriKlein Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The only solution towards a dedicated server would be some form of subscription or the game becoming highly profitable with its RMT feature, otherwise it is financially not viable to support dedicated servers (those things cost an arm and a leg). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeshield Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The game uses UDP, Virgin media runs traffic management making UDP bad. Is this really Virgins fault? To be honest I don't have network issues like this with other peer to peer games so I think the issue is more in the network coding or matchmaking than the ISP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriKlein Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Is this really Virgins fault? To be honest I don't have network issues like this with other peer to peer games so I think the issue is more in the network coding or matchmaking than the ISP. It is the fact that players live in long distances from one another. We're talking different continents here. No amount of coding is going to 'fix' that. Also, most ISPs provide very low upload bandwidth to their clients. So some players functioning as a server are going to be terrible hosts. Edited April 28, 2013 by OriKlein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 I make a good host probally because I am on a fiber optic connection with 6 megabytes per second dl, and 3 mbyte/s upload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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