The Vandal Issue, Petition For Hooligans

[Gregio]

They already do that, right now Braton vandal is the best rifle in game and the only thing its stoping the lato vandal to be god tier its the lex.

 

its like saying DHS doesnt outclass the others melees.

There are no absolute best weapons in Warframe. Which is exactly what the devs wanted.

DHS is a good melee weapon, but many people prefer Scindos with charge attacks.

The Lato Vandal may be a good pistol, but so is the Lex, Kraken and the Akboltos, for example.

The Braton vandal might be the best ASSAULT rifle, disputing with the MK Braton, Braton and Grakata, maybe.

What the developers don't intend to do is direct upgrades, things like.

Dual Heat Swords. Next update introduces Dual Inferno Swords, which is basically the same thing but stronger.

Which is basically what the thread starter asked for.

[f3llyn]

I meant the weapon sound.:)

But hey Steve said Vandals came back so why discuss?

He never said the Braton and Lato vandal will come back. He said there might be new vandal weapons in the future. Slight difference there.

 

I don't think they need to offer an alternative to any of the current vandals and I really don't get why people are so fixated on them. If you have to ask for vandal weapons why not entirely new ones?

 

But really, the people asking (demanding) these things are so self entitled no one should actually take them serious. I play the game to have fun and any bonus free weapons I get along the way are just that, a bonus. I don't expect them and I don't require them and any one who thinks they do should outright be ignored.

Edited April 29, 2013 by f3llyn

[TheDoctah]

The vandal was never pay to win, it was up for 1 credit in the market. Not one plat..one CREDIT. So it's certainly not pay to win. I'm a owner of both vandals and I would rather not see something so similar to the vandal. I'm all for more special weapons but nothing that's so similar to a previous special weapon. Wouldn't make it so special anymore. I also have to wonder about the people that say stats should never be altered on special weapons are people that don't own the gun. I'm almost sure some if not most wouldn't bring up that argument if they had the vandal. Don't mean to come off as an &#! but it just seems like a whiners argument. Keep it exclusive, just wait for another special gun.

[Inez]

I used to think to think it would be ok to let people in the future get the Vandals, but apparently being the only ones with the weapons is VERY important to the CB people.  Even people who don't use them.  

 

So if they gave the Vandals to non-CB, they would suddenly not feel "special."

 

To me it sounds like the little kid who won't let the other kid play with his toys.  If other people suddenly got the Vandals, I don't see how it would affect my enjoyment of the game.  I don't run through missions with my Lato Vandal saying "I'm cool. I have a Vandal."

 

But I'm obviously a weirdo, and in the minority.  So let the noobs have less guns to play with.  Silly whiners. They shoulda gotten here sooner.

 

The whole fun of the game is trying out different weapons and warframes.  I've got all the guns and warframes now, just gotta finish leveling a few. Once I'm done leveling them, I'm outta here.  It was lots of fun and $50 well spent.  I'll prolly check in from time to time, but I've basically killed enough Grineer for one lifetime.  The newer players have less weapons, hence less reason to stay around as long.  Without the Vandals, I'd just have Warframes left to level, which wouldn't be as much fun.

 

CB people feeling "special" > new players having fun.  Sounds good to me.

[ADDpillz]

Steve already mentioned the return of vandal someday.. can be tomorrow or can be in 3 years..

When and where did he say this?

[CrimsonSpectre]

Aklato is better than Lato Vandal. It can almost be considered a sacrifice to use the latter instead of the former, just to show off. This Vandal stays exclusive.

 

The Braton, however...it was sold to anyone, not only the people who participated in closed beta, so technically it was never exclusive. I played the game in closed beta, but didn't get the Braton, as I was away from the game at the time of the transition. Another opportunity to buy Braton Vandal would be nice, and would solve the issue of "bullS#&$ exclusiveness".

[K0bra]

Im waiting that the Vandals come back.Nobody will hurt or lose anything.

Edited April 29, 2013 by K0bra

[TheDoctah]

I used to think to think it would be ok to let people in the future get the Vandals, but apparently being the only ones with the weapons is VERY important to the CB people.  Even people who don't use them.  

 

So if they gave the Vandals to non-CB, they would suddenly not feel "special."

 

To me it sounds like the little kid who won't let the other kid play with his toys.  If other people suddenly got the Vandals, I don't see how it would affect my enjoyment of the game.  I don't run through missions with my Lato Vandal saying "I'm cool. I have a Vandal."

 

But I'm obviously a weirdo, and in the minority.  So let the noobs have less guns to play with.  Silly whiners. They shoulda gotten here sooner.

 

The whole fun of the game is trying out different weapons and warframes.  I've got all the guns and warframes now, just gotta finish leveling a few. Once I'm done leveling them, I'm outta here.  It was lots of fun and $50 well spent.  I'll prolly check in from time to time, but I've basically killed enough Grineer for one lifetime.  The newer players have less weapons, hence less reason to stay around as long.  Without the Vandals, I'd just have Warframes left to level, which wouldn't be as much fun.

 

CB people feeling "special" > new players having fun.  Sounds good to me.

I don't run through the game saying "I'm cool cause I have a cool gun" you people act like they're not ever gonna come out with another event gun. . You missed one gun, and now the sky is falling. You missed the second event gun and now the ground we stand on is breaking apart. DE is going to have more event guns, just wait. I had  to wait for special event guns too and did my share of waiting and supported this game. Time for the noobies to do the same, if I can wait, they can too.

[TheDoctah]

Double post, sorry.

 

If all it takes for people to get their fun sucked out of the game by missing out on one or two guns, then I'm afraid they won't last long in this game anyway. 

[EvieTheTenno]

Double post, sorry.

 

If all it takes for people to get their fun sucked out of the game by missing out on one or two guns, then I'm afraid they won't last long in this game anyway. 

I don't think they care about the gun as a status symbol, or how it looks or whatever. It would just be nice to have a way to get those alternative stats for the Braton, it doesn't have to be a braton vandal.

Edited April 29, 2013 by AresX905

[OriKlein]

May I propose "Hoodlum" or "Delinquent" instead of "Hooligan"?
I'm not a British Football fan belonging to the ULTRAS camp. ;)

(as much as I enjoy the indiscriminate deployment of gasoline and knuckles...)

Edited April 29, 2013 by OriKlein

[Enlil]

I just want a USFULL gun that makes it worth to gathering mastery points!. (Read, i want a railgun! bring me an kickass party stick to look forward too)

Ps, an chimp like me rly needs gear like that ingame to keep me motivated. spending all fusion-cores and mods to upgrade an mod is not enough for me... (sad but true)

[JoeHook]

First off Doctah youre the only who thinks the sky is falling. Ive said like 900 times now its not a big deal, it just makes me a little sad because theyre my favorite guns. No one said the game wasnt fun anymore. Youve thrown up your straw man and sliced him to pieces, good for you. So just leave it alone. Maybe you struggle to live life without everything being life or death, but realize that other people dont burn down the world everytime they have a slight disagreement. 

 

Second, most people who have mentioned they owned the vandals dont seem to be against it, so i dont understand why so many are jumping so forcefully to the defense of people who dont seem to want or need your help. Im just looking for opinions, and we heard yours, so.....there we go.I made this thread to explain to people why i want a new version of the vandal. You disagree because im a whiner. I get it. 1 vote for Joes a whiner. Lets move on.

 

 

This is my point, i think the Braton and Lato are a bit nerfed endgame without polarity slots. Period. Thats my opinion. I have high end mods, and the 5 extra mod points from polarizing my serration and hornet strike would allow me to throw on another decent mod to up my damage another 5-15%, which would be extremely useful against bosses and ancients, especially when i solo, which i like to do. Also, the 10-20% bullet efficacy would be helpful too to put the guns a little higher on the efficacy charts, which the Braton in particular sits VERY low on. The Vandals are upgrades to the original starting weapons (i know, braton mk I, but its clearly meant to be replaced), which i think are a bit weak compared to other guns that are not starter weapons. I think the weapons that cost credits are better designed for endgame, and the Braton and Lato are more like intro guns that still work well in most situations. 

 

My SPECULATION, is that because the Vandals exists, at some point the developers thought the same as me, realizing the Braton and Lato were a little weak endgame, and decided to give a more viable alternative to those players who loved using the original starting guns, but wanted to carry them farther into the game. I believe this is true, because the Vandals have continued to be altered in patches, in a way that keeps them relatively strong compared to the original starters. To a small extent, these are the guns you are "supposed" to use. ( the word supposed is very soft, please dont misunderstand me, your supposed to use lots of different guns obviously). I say this because there 3 versions of the braton (3 of the 8 rifles) and 4 versions of the lato (4 out of 14 total pistols, including duals). Only 3 other pistols have 1 counterpart, and its only dualing them. Clearly these guns are at the very least special to this game. 

 

Thats what i believe, based on what ive seen. Its not based on feelings, or wants, or needs, but what ive seen in the numbers, the patch notes, and played for myself.

 

What i also believe, is that Warframe is a beautifully crafted cooperative beacon of sharing on a hill surrounded by overly competitive profit mongers pitting you against their lack of creativity. I love Warframe. I love the style, i love the feel. I feel like im dancing when i play, not lumbering around in a space marine suit. I play way too much. This is were feelings get involved. As i fused up my mods, i tried out lots of guns. I hate the Gorgon. I love the Latron. I love/hate Paris (we have a touchy relationship, more good than bad). I love the burstron from the hip, and hate it down the barrel. I looooooove my Lex. I love my aklato. I like my Twin Vipers, i love them when im carrying a case. I hate daggers, but i love dual swords (DHS <3). Grams ok. Ill try Scindo out soon enough. 

 

But the Braton and Lato were my first. I REALLY love them. I think Warframe loves them, and they were the starting weapons for a reason. They blend perfectly with the fast paced in your face, shoot em up til you chop em down gamestyle that Warframe EXCELS at to the point of definition. Warframe seems to agree, by makig them the first Vandals, and the Lato being a Prime. Say what you will, but to some extent Warframe has a special place in its heart for the Braton and the Lato, and I do too. 

 

Which is why i want a chance to earn the endgame ready versions. I dont want the skin, or the special sound or whatever. I honestly dont want it. It would feel like stealing to me. I just want the polarized efficient versions, so i can enjoy the content of the game as i choose. I dont believe "You joined the beta too late" is a good enough reason to shelf these weapons for the huge amounts of new players to the game who would enjoy using them. Maybe Warframe thinks they are a bit too powerful, and just didnt want to take them away from the other players who already had them. I can understand that. I can understand lots of good reasons, but i dont hear very many good reasons. Just "You were too late stop whining". Ive attempted to put my thoughts in a way that is constructive. Id like to have a real discussion about this, and id like to respect the feelings of the players who have the Vandals. It seems to me like the Vandal owners dont mind much at all, let alone my compromised version, and i would like the Devs to consider that. I would like them to consider my thoughts as well.

 

Im not demanding a gun, im demanding a discussion, which i have earned by participating in the beta and contributing funds to the development of the game. I dont demand to be listened to, i demand a chance to speak. And i have. And i will continue to. THAT is something i get passionate about. Far more than videogame guns. The idea that videogames are in part developed by the people that actually use them is very cool for me. Crowdsourcing is humankinds greatest invention. I just want to participate in the discussion, and i like to write and debate a lot by nature, so:

 

WALL OF TEXT!!!!!!

[f3llyn]

The next complaint in line will be that the lato vandal came with a free catalyst so everyone else should get a free catalyst in their shiny new vandal too.

 

Fair is fair after all.

 

DE don't need to offer alternatives. You missed out? That really sucks for you but there will likely be more exclusive one time offer weapons in the future. The best DE can do is give people maybe a little forewarning so they can plan ahead of time to get theirs.

 

And it makes more sense to ask for entirely new weapons instead of rehashed versions of alternative version of guns that already exist. I still find it really odd people are so fixated on the vandal weapons...yet they would be okay with "cheap knock offs".

Edited April 30, 2013 by f3llyn

[JackVII]

And it makes more sense to ask for entirely new weapons instead of rehashed versions of alternative version of guns that already exist. I still find it really odd people are so fixated on the vandal weapons...yet they would be okay with "cheap knock offs".

 

Than, you didnt read the wall of text, it is well explained,

 

 

WALL OF TEXT!!!!!!

 

Well explained, i wouldnt have eplained it better

 

I pesonal opinion is that exclusive item are ok, as long that thex thont have exclusive stat, to raise my point i say this,

i dont have the vandal, but i have the prime, and i do not agree with the fact that the prime have different stats, it should be equal to the normal excalibur, just different in look, it need to be nerfed

In total fairness, im jealous of the braton vandal, it is a beautiful skin, and the fact that just had to be there to get it &!$$ me off cause i didnt know at the time that the game exsisted, so there are no way i could have got it, you simply had to be there and grab it, unfair

The lato vandal is another matter entirely, you had to be in the closed beta to get it, you had to seriously contribute to the game devellopement, and i respect that. of course the diffend stats sill bug me, but i understand the need the dev felt to reward the beta player

On an interesting side note, i think (this is seculation based on one fact) one of the poblem came form the fact that the dev didnt expect a continous rise in the comunity, like stated in twich presentation, they expected a big bang than a slow decrese,(This is the fact, the rest is speculation) and surely wanted to give a big bang(braton vandal) to help that boost and try to convince player to continue playing afther the initial boom. That not what happened, Dues to the excellent quality of the game at beta release, and an dedicated evergrowing fanbase, the quantity of player started to continously increase, and now a lot of player are joining like me, who didnt have previous knowledge the game exsisted, feel like they were punished for discovering the game afther the promotion was done,

 

In Resume,

Why i am being punished for not discovering the beta sooner, i didnt know it exsisted!!!! (This is how i feel, it is an emotion, i clealy undersatnd that im not being punished,)

 

Of course it is my personal opinion, and everyone is enthided to their opinion, so what yours?

Edited April 30, 2013 by JackVII

[KageNoShini]

or how about not offering it in the market, and keep it as an event reward, like if they have some sort of 4th of july event or something and a new, or old (i have lato V.) vandal weapon could be the reward for that event, or do the mass effect things where if you kill a certain amount of powerful units within x amount of time and only from x planets, then there is a special reward for those who killed/contributed minimum x amount (so that those who decided to not participate on those high level planets aren't getting rewarded for doing diddly squat)

[FriedAlbacore]

I'm in total agreement about there being new events in which old or new vandals versions of weapons are released for a limited time.  I'm just not in agreement with Vandals being put in the market permanently.  Why even give them out at that point.  I understand that its an awesome weapon (I have one) but its not necessarily the end-all of end-alls.  It is just a gun btw.  Anywho, that being said, I would even be ok with a limited time plat only offer as well. 

I guess it would just be a little disheartening to see everybody running around with them.  Also, if the devs gave into everything we the players whined about, the game would inevitably be crap.  Let the game developers do what they do best - make the games we like to play. I'm sure there's going to be limited time things I miss in the game, and I will be disappointed, but that's the thing with f2p games.  You gotta show up and participate to get the shiny

[JoeHook]

Fried, i never want a release to have the skin, so no one would know that you had one. It would be identical but unnoticeable in appearance from the braton. The skin is what you would see "people running around with", and i respect that you dont want that, i dont want that. 

 

I know its not an end all be all, and thats exactly why i think it should be available again, minus the cool skin and sound. Im not asking for a super powered P2W gun (i dont want one either), just a slight upgrade that already exists to a gun i already own.

 

This game has a wonderful spirit to it, in terms of balance, accessibility, and transparency. The Vandals are literally the only thing that i believe are outside of that spirit. And I wish it was corrected. If not, so be it. But ill fight the good fight. 

[xPooPoox]

I would like if they made this available as I was not playing WarFrame time of special sell they offered, I had discovered WF right after that sale :(

[f3llyn]

Than, you didnt read the wall of text, it is well explained,

 

 

 

Well explained, i wouldnt have eplained it better

 

I pesonal opinion is that exclusive item are ok, as long that thex thont have exclusive stat, to raise my point i say this,

i dont have the vandal, but i have the prime, and i do not agree with the fact that the prime have different stats, it should be equal to the normal excalibur, just different in look, it need to be nerfed

In total fairness, im jealous of the braton vandal, it is a beautiful skin, and the fact that just had to be there to get it &!$$ me off cause i didnt know at the time that the game exsisted, so there are no way i could have got it, you simply had to be there and grab it, unfair

The lato vandal is another matter entirely, you had to be in the closed beta to get it, you had to seriously contribute to the game devellopement, and i respect that. of course the diffend stats sill bug me, but i understand the need the dev felt to reward the beta player

On an interesting side note, i think (this is seculation based on one fact) one of the poblem came form the fact that the dev didnt expect a continous rise in the comunity, like stated in twich presentation, they expected a big bang than a slow decrese,(This is the fact, the rest is speculation) and surely wanted to give a big bang(braton vandal) to help that boost and try to convince player to continue playing afther the initial boom. That not what happened, Dues to the excellent quality of the game at beta release, and an dedicated evergrowing fanbase, the quantity of player started to continously increase, and now a lot of player are joining like me, who didnt have previous knowledge the game exsisted, feel like they were punished for discovering the game afther the promotion was done,

 

In Resume,

Why i am being punished for not discovering the beta sooner, i didnt know it exsisted!!!! (This is how i feel, it is an emotion, i clealy undersatnd that im not being punished,)

 

Of course it is my personal opinion, and everyone is enthided to their opinion, so what yours?

 

I read it I just chose to ignore it because it doesn't make any sense. The amount of self entitlement and fixation on these two particular weapons is amazing.

 

The entire thing basically comes down to greed and jealousy. Making long winded, poorly formatted posts to say something simple isn't gonna change anything.

Edited April 30, 2013 by f3llyn

[Mythdis]

I have both the braton and the lato vandal, and while I'm not that worried about more people having them I think an exclusive item should stay exclusive.

They were given for a specific event, and it should stay that way. In other games I've played (such as WoW) you missed an item from an event or the item was phased out, then too bad you couldn't get it.

By making a hooligan the whole point of being exclusive would be redundant because all that matters really about the vandal is the looks, no one cares about it for its stats (although they're great).

[Tekkaman-Blade]

As a vandal owner I believe that if they have the Vandal return, that they do them as "? alerts" up for 24 hours on the games anniversaries.

 

I don't feel that any other occasion should warrant it.

 

Also it would be cool if they had a different "vandal" every year.

[Namacyst]

The more i read idiotic Threads like this the more i like my Vandal stuff. Downvote me, whiners!

 

Steve may have mentioned the return of Vandal but i'm pretty sure he meant new Weapons for the set and not another way to get Lato or Braton.

 

Braton Vandal was Open Beta Weekend exclusive and available for 3-4 days. Missed it? Too bad! Keep whining.

 

Lato Vandal was a thank you and kind of reward for the closed Beta testers only who helped to make a good chunk of the game playable for you in open beta so boohoo, tough luck coming to late to deserve the Lato Vandal. Sorry, crying will not help you.

 

Wanting a new set of guns that are 99% identical to the Vandal set because you can't get it is so stupid that my Braincells slap each other in hopes of forgetting what i just read.

 

Cry all you want.. the current Vandal items are exclusive for a reason and to hand them to anyone who crys enough is not only wrong.. it will not happen. Live with it!

 

Cheers

Edited April 30, 2013 by Namacyst

[JackVII]

I read it I just chose to ignore it because it doesn't make any sense. The amount of self entitlement and fixation on these two particular weapons is amazing.

 

The entire thing basically comes down to greed and jealousy. Making long winded, poorly formatted posts to say something simple isn't gonna change anything.

 

Damn you f3lyn, your not contrybuting, and your not respecting the opinion of other because your not trying to understand it,

 

explanation in one sentence

WE DONT WANT THE VANDAL

 

what we want is balance and no pay to win, and the fact that the vandal have diffenrent stats and is exclusive in in violation of that spirit

 

and again, if they give new vandal with new stats in new event, it will cause even MORE PROBLEM, the dev should STOP giving exclusive item and start giving skins, or tread like this one are gonna multiply,

 

Try to keep it clean people

[RAVVSlathotep]

But that's wrong, I want the Braton Vandal, both for its stats AND looks. You can't ignore the fact that some people just want to collect everything. The only thing I know I won't get is the Lato Prime because I just don't have money to give away for it. The principle is righteous but it's not because of that that I want it.

 

Collectors have been in everywhere for millennia, I don't understand why some people still can't see that. Games are no different, I want every single rare thing in the game just for the sake of having every single rare thing in the game. But that's just me, everyone has a different opinion on that.

 

As a Lato Vandal user I want everyone to be able to get it, it doesn't make me feel any better knowing that I have it and my friends can't. It makes me feel like an arsehole.

Edited April 30, 2013 by RAVVSlathotep