The Vandal Issue, Petition For Hooligans

[Gregio]

I grow tired of this argument, and I understand your point, so I truly don't feel like antagonizing you further.

My final point will be simply this.
They have said it is at least, very unlikely that the old Vandal models will return.
As for the opinions of those who own and don't own the Vandals, I don't own them, and I don't miss them at all, I haven't maxed even 1/3 of the weapons in the game, though the Lato was my first and aesthetically sort of favorite pistol so I would LIKE the Vandal. That said, I understand it should and will remain exclusive to Closed Beta players, as I believe it should be, so I just got a new pistol, the Kraken, which I love.

Now my friend Zack, on the other hand, owns the Vandals, and he said he doesn't want non-beta players to have them. Another friend from the same group said he doesn't care, and a third said he'd rather non-beta players don't have it, so you'll understand we're exposed to different opinions.

As for the continued discussion of this thread, the Vandals returning free to all players is, in my opinion, such a minor, irrelevant question for all the fuss it's raising, that either way it goes, people won't be happy anymore, so I'd rather drop and ignore the matter.
That DERebecca has to watch over an argument like this over a matter that should have been settled by her official statement, and so that the staff can focus on more pressing matters, like Update 8, for example, so we all get Clans and DESteve stops having sleepless nights over endgame content, I think this thread just turned into a waste of staff time, IF they are even checking the matter anymore.

My suggestion would be to find something else to focus on the game, grab a new weapon, go make a Squad with JoeHook and talk about all the A******s (me, etc) that want to keep you from your de-skinned stat-fied Vandals and just have some fun, leave the staff to design new Vandal weapons and just send some support tickets maybe to keep their attention to the matter.

The discussion has pretty much shown them that opinions are split, and both sides have their reasons and seem reluctant to change their minds, so I'm sure they will come to a final decision, if DERebecca's post wasn't already their final decision without the need to further discuss the subject so fervently.

Also, I really want Update 8 to come along, so let them focus, yea?

[JoeHook]

Thank you Gregio. I will continue to discuss the topic, because im stubborn like that, but this is exactly the kind of posts im looking for. You are the only person who actually convinced me a little to let it be. 

[f3llyn]

f3llyn seem to me you didnt try to understand my point, or didnt bother, but i dont want to explain my point or risk build a conter-argument to your comment, there too much risk it flaring out of control,  invite me ingame, please, in a private chat well be free to "insult" each other at will, and maybe a cool friendship could arose form diserting opinion.

But we know the vandal weapon is a problem, and it will not go away, it only seem to get worse, si i think we need the dev to step up, and fix this one and for all. no matter how,

And whathever they do, i hope they will explain why, be it removing it, doing nothing or giving it to everybody, cause i still think ist unfair, bur im starting to tink their silence is more problematic

 

And i know the problem would be fixed if one side dropped the ball, what are the chance of that happening.....

 

The only ones it's a problem to are self entitled players who missed a chance to get one. And some of them weren't even playing the game or new it even existed when the event took place. And I wasn't insulting anyone so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up.

 

I go on the GW2 forum and guess what I don't see? Complaints about all the exclusive time limited and paid items that Anet has put out there. Some require you to spend money, others you can get just by playing the game. But no one complains because they are exclusive to events and won't ever come back.

 

This is the only game I've ever seen where people think that exclusive items need to be made available to everyone after the one time event has ended.

Edited May 1, 2013 by f3llyn

[Vaskadar]

TBH... I'd rather see a hard-hitting automatic rifle with a damage rate somewhere in between the Vandal and the Latron. 25 damage at 5.8 fire rate, 30 round magazine... y'know... a true automatic battle rifle.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Vaskadar

[MEsoJD]

They'll probably have a new vandal for open beta players.

[Dasmir]

Jesus 4 pages of pure:

 

"-We can have a carbon copy the braton vandal ?"

"No becouse its unique and its unique and you dont derserve it cuz 1 credit and blagh it will affect my gameplay cuz its unique you know"

 

"-But we just want the stats of the weapon."

"No becouse the stats are unqie and you dont deserve it cuz 1 credit and blagh it will affect my gameplay cz its unique you know"

 

Now 5, inba downvotes.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Dasmir

[Amistyrja]

So closed beta testers and those who stuck around during the weekend have the right to have stronger guns than those who don't? Oh well I'm perfectly happy with my Lex and Burston anyway...

[FateZero]

So closed beta testers and those who stuck around during the weekend have the right to have stronger guns than those who don't? Oh well I'm perfectly happy with my Lex and Burston anyway...

Yes and no. We have the right to exclusive event items, because we were here during CB, and like you said, we stuck around during the event period.

Why is it so hard to understand that every game has some kind of rare item that won't be released again?

[Amistyrja]

Yes and no. We have the right to exclusive event items, because we were here during CB, and like you said, we stuck around during the event period.

Why is it so hard to understand that every game has some kind of rare item that won't be released again?

Can we have weapons that have the same stats but not the same skins as the Vandals then? Unless the stats are what makes the weapons special which is something MMOs really seem to enjoy doing.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Amistyrja

[Swifty2]

One question, aside from the fact that the Vandal are slower but more powerful (which can be balanced to be a side grade to the original versions). The other thing you mention is the polarity slot, but if and when the introduce the prestige mechanic (reset item to unranked, choose a polarity slot of your choice), then the one thing the Vandals undisputedly have over the originals is removed.

 

Do you still want a de-skinned/de-sound(?) Vandal?

[CheeseHasLeafs]

Man, as long as the original Vandals have exclusive access to the firing sound, I don't care. 

[Amistyrja]

One question, aside from the fact that the Vandal are slower but more powerful (which can be balanced to be a side grade to the original versions). The other thing you mention is the polarity slot, but if and when the introduce the prestige mechanic (reset item to unranked, choose a polarity slot of your choice), then the one thing the Vandals undisputedly have over the originals is removed.

 

Do you still want a de-skinned/de-sound(?) Vandal?

For that damage, I personally wouldn't mind =) A reliable semi-auto is invaluable

[Swifty2]

For that damage, I personally wouldn't mind =) A reliable semi-auto is invaluable

 But based on the fact DE want all weapons to be sidegrades (apart from MK.1, Skana and Lato(?)) then I think the more pressing point is they need to buff the Braton (rof not damage)

[Amistyrja]

 But based on the fact DE want all weapons to be sidegrades (apart from MK.1, Skana and Lato(?)) then I think the more pressing point is they need to buff the Braton (rof not damage)

I would personally enjoy a 'submachine gun' kind of primary with about 30 mag capacity, high rof, quick reload and high spread to limit its use to close-range engagements. idk if the Braton needs a buff, people have been claiming it's better than the Hek and Latron DX

[Swifty2]

I would personally enjoy a 'submachine gun' kind of primary with about 30 mag capacity, high rof, quick reload and high spread to limit its use to close-range engagements. idk if the Braton needs a buff, people have been claiming it's better than the Hek and Latron DX

 

I hear that the Braton Vandal is very good (i have one but i dont have many other primary's to compare it to).

I hear the standard Braton (not MK.1) is a good starting weapon but to swap it out to other primarys.

 

And your description matches what I think the braton SHOULD be (longer engagement range than the Grakata tho)

[Korevas]

Yes and no. We have the right to exclusive event items, because we were here during CB, and like you said, we stuck around during the event period.

Why is it so hard to understand that every game has some kind of rare item that won't be released again?

 

It's probably hard to understand because it's not ture at all. Actually, very few games do have rare items that are stronger then what everybody else has and won't ever be release again... Exclusive skins, yea, that's true, many games have them, but what op asked for would leave the exclusiveness of the skin completely untouched.

 

And for that matter, what I don't understand is that whole "I was there, therefore I *deserve* the right to have that better weapon" mentality. The vast majority of people playing in betas do not even report a single bug or anything, and in this case, they just randomly happened to be there when free stuff got handed out. Maybe it's me, but happening to randomly be somewhere at some time does not constitute *deserving* something. If the people who got vandals were just picked out by a one time rng sample, would those too deserve it then?

 

 

One question, aside from the fact that the Vandal are slower but more powerful (which can be balanced to be a side grade to the original versions). The other thing you mention is the polarity slot, but if and when the introduce the prestige mechanic (reset item to unranked, choose a polarity slot of your choice), then the one thing the Vandals undisputedly have over the originals is removed.

 

Do you still want a de-skinned/de-sound(?) Vandal?

 

We don't know what the prestige system will look like, it might as well mean that braton will have 1 polarity slot and vandal would have 2, and since everybody will want to use full serration and multishot, it wouldn't actually change anything about their relative value.

[Swifty2]

We don't know what the prestige system will look like, it might as well mean that braton will have 1 polarity slot and vandal would have 2, and since everybody will want to use full serration and multishot, it wouldn't actually change anything about their relative value.

 

Speculation, but I believe the prestige system can be used unlimited times up till the point every slot has a polarity (although with the current mods this would be op).

 

Anyway, I doubt once the prestige system is in place that there will be disparity between weapons polarity assuming you prestige it enough.

 

Also like I've said DE wants all weapons to be sidegrades (ignoring starter weapons). Therefore I think the better question than "can we get a not-Vandal Vandal?" is "Can the Braton be buffed (Vandal be nerfed) to bring it in line with other weapons?"

Edited May 1, 2013 by Swifty2

[Korevas]

Speculation, but I believe the prestige system can be used unlimited times up till the point every slot has a polarity (although with the current mods this would be op).

 

Anyway, I doubt once the prestige system is in place that there will be disparity between weapons polarity assuming you prestige it enough.

 

At this point, even having the prestige system at all is speculation. I highly doubt, however, that they would let you prestige weapons (and warframes especially) until every single slot has a polarity, no matter how they exactly the system is going to work.

[DanPaul7]

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest if everyone could just have the Vandal weapons.

[Mir.]

as long as the community's stomachs are well fed, I'm happy as well.

 

I'll quickly address an issue if this was to be implemented. I am assuming the hooligans would be an one time exclusive just as the Vandals do right, and they would be available for x amount of time for players to get it, earn their credits to 125k and obtain it.

 

Keep in mind the community is large now, we would have players who joined in the exclusive period, who doesn't know anything about the game, if they browse on the forums or market they should have seen the Hooligans and start earning 125k credits for it.

 

What about those that doesn't know about it? NOT every player browse the forums, and certainly not every new player who is new and lost about the game is going to know that an exclusive gun is out there. We could put up signs and stuff everywhere in game about Hooligans and 1 or 2 nutshells is going to miss it.

 

Next, players who have earned perhaps 124k credits and the exclusive period for Hooligans have ended and another horde of players who joined 1 day, 2 days, 1 week, 2 weeks or even a month after the period saying "OH MY GOD I MISSED IT JUST BY A FEW DAYS COULD DE PLEEEASSEEE BRING BACK THE HOOLIGANS?"

 

And yes, this is EXACTLY the situation we are now seeing with the Vandals.

 

What I'm trying to say is that we can never please the whole community, especially in a growing game like Warframe.

 

I'm sure we have seen enough people who joined during the Braton Vandal weekend or even before that but they had missed it for several reasons, work, vacation, didn't know about it, etc etc. I would place my bets that the same thing is going to happen if Hooligans exclusive period is going to be implemented.

 

And people who missed the Hooligans is going to cry about it, and make threads like this. Killing the exclusivity of the weapons.

Edited May 1, 2013 by whinin

[Amistyrja]

Don't make them one time?

[Mir.]

Don't make them one time?

It would not be an exclusive weapon that the players wanted.

[Amistyrja]

It would not be an exclusive weapon that the players wanted.

I thought the players wanted them because they were better than the Bratons and Latos in the market. If they want it for the looks, well that's something I believe should probably remain exclusive.

[Mir.]

I thought the players wanted them because they were better than the Bratons and Latos in the market. If they want it for the looks, well that's something I believe should probably remain exclusive.

Yeah, OP has made a good point on making it of a different skin.

 

But as I have pointed out in the lengthy post that I wrote, we could not solve the players' desire for specific exclusive weapons. But of course I'm sure that DE will give us something else in the near future, perhaps even better than the Vandals!

[FateZero]

Why does a weapon have to be released based on the Vandal?
Why can't you let DE just release other kinds of weapons they want to release, that will fulfill different roles? There are weapons that are better than the Vandal and there will be weapons better than the Vandal released in the future. Everything can't be based on the Vandal when thinking of weapons to implement into the game or the game will just be carbon copies of every weapon. Right now we have the Gorgon (LMG), Boltor (Armor ignore/bolt), Grakata (SMG), Braton (balanced rifle), Burston (Battle rifle), Latron (Single shot rifle), Snipetron (Sniper), Paris (Bow). Each weapon has unique characteristics.

 

It's probably hard to understand because it's not ture at all. Actually, very few games do have rare items that are stronger then what everybody else has and won't ever be release again... Exclusive skins, yea, that's true, many games have them, but what op asked for would leave the exclusiveness of the skin completely untouched.

Different games played, different perspectives; the games I have played tend to have rares that are slightly better and/or have a distinct feature about the item over regular non-rare stuff. Of course old rares tend to be outclassed by new regular weapons as the game grows. Which will happen to WarFrame eventually.