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Alert System - Constructive Feedback Megathread!


CaligoIllioneus
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If there's one thing we learned from the Glaive issue is that more people than we thought were unsatisfied with the current implementation of the Alert System, more specifically, the ? Rewards.

I feel like there's a worthwhile and more important discussion to be had here if we look beyond the Glaive issue, and that's the raison d'être of this thread.

This first part contains facts about the current Alert System, so feel free to skip it if you're pressed for time or fighting against boredom.

The second and third parts are my personal opinions and criticism of the Alert System, and how it could be improved. Those of you that have read my views on the Glaive issue will find these parts familiar.

Keep in mind this is a feedback thread about the Alert System, where you can give your own opinion, if you think it works well, if you think it doesn't, how you want it changed (if you know how), etc. My personal opinions are thus no more important than yours even if I included them here in the OP.

Also if you find this too big of a wall of text, simply skip to posting your thoughts about the Alert System. You probably already know how it works, and like I said, my opinions are not that important.

Please keep it constructive!

--

The System as it currently stands:

Alerts themselves:

They are generated randomly, and last between 30 to 60 minutes, with 60 minute alerts being rarer than 30 minute ones. They appear "assigned" to another mission that you need to have unlocked in order to see the alert; though being invited or otherwise joining the session of someone that has it open can circumvent this issue, transforming it into a minor obstacle. The mission itself has a difficulty similar to that of the planet it appeared into.

The Rewards:

1) Artifacts: ? Alerts -apart from tier 2 and 3 Login Rewards- are the only way to obtain Artifacts. Artifacts are also the most common type of reward for ? Alerts. These Alerts are particularly useless after you find the Artifacts you desire, as finding more copies of the same Artifact does nothing, in fact you can't even sell them.

2) Melee Weapons: Pangolin Sword, Plasma Sword, Dark Sword, Ceramic Dagger et al. These Alert-only weapons are currently rather underpowered compared to Heavy Weapons, Dual Heat Swords, Dual Ether, and other more popular choices. While their usefulness is reduced, they all boast unique looks, which are their main appeal next to being useful for getting to higher Mastery ranks. Gameplay-wise, they're all variations of the Skana/Cronus, that is, single target swords.

3) Weapon Skins and Warframe Alt Helmets: ? Alerts are also the only way to obtain weapon skins and warframe alt helmets for free. These items are aesthetic customization choices, because even if some skins and all the alt helmets have gameplay effects, these are very small and negligible

4) The Glaive: A highly anticipated weapon, boasting an unique moveset and playstyle. Its inclusion as an Alert-only reward was generally not well received by the community. At least, it was a polarizing topic. Note: Try not to reduce the scope of this thread to only the Glaive, as we already had a lot of different discussions about it.

5) Orokin Catalysts and Reactors: Our precious blue and golden potatoes respectively. Essential for unlocking the true potential of warframes and weapons, these items duplicate the mod capacity of the weapon/warframe they upgrade, thus their value is extremely high. They can only be obtained for free via these Alerts and (very, very rarely) through the third tier of Login Rewards. Orokin Alerts are the rarest and most valuable of the bunch, a place currently disputed now by the Glaive Alert.

"Random" and "beyond your control" is what better defines the ? Alerts. Luck determines if they appear when you're online, and luck determines if the alert that appears is one you need. You can't do anything to influence this. The closer to agency you have regarding alerts is unlocking more missions, as this removes the hassle of having to find someone to invite you.

--

Personal Opinions:

My main gripe with the current Alert System is the bolded part above. I do not see Alerts as a goal you have to work for, as it's just a matter of pure luck. Farming blueprints for a warframe you need is also focused on luck, but you have agency on the outcome: Making an effort, that is, doing more and more runs, increases your chances of obtaining the item, while doing nothing reduces these chances to 0. Obtaining an item this way or any other ways that require player agency and effort is more satisfying than simply being basically freely given the item because you were online at a certain hour, while not obtaining the item because you weren't trying or because you were unlucky with the drops is much less frustrating than realizing you (for example) went to have dinner for 40 minutes and missed that Alert you were looking for. Because this is what Alerts are: Being online when the Alert you need deems itself worthy to appear.

The most important thing here is the Goal: If you have agency in the process of obtaining an item you want, it becomes a goal. Goals are incentives to keep playing, and keep the game fresh. I heard some people separating this and "having fun", as if goals were an "artificial" means of extending the longevity of the game while the only important thing is having fun. I do not agree. Finding the game fun is of course essential, but working towards a goal doesn't have to be unfun, and it extends the longevity of the game and the satisfaction you get from it when you eventually achieve it.

Goals represent freshness, while having to wait for something that is beyond your control and depends only on dumb luck becomes stale. I feel like waiting for the right Alerts to pop up is the very essence of stale, as you know for sure playing more will do nothing to get you closer to those items you need, which would make the game more fun for you.

I feel like the current Alert System works well for Artifacts -because the Alerts that drop them are so common- and aesthetic rewards. I'm counting the melee weapons as aesthetic rewards, too. You don't really need aesthetic items, and finding or not finding them is not as consequential to your enjoyment of the game, even if knowing you have more customization options is great. I think the main reason the current Alert System works for aesthetic rewards is that it's ingrained in us that these are platinum-only items, thus obtaining them for free feels great, and we're okay with this being a product of pure luck. It feels almost like a "present" from the devs.

This is not the case for potatoes or -ahem- highly anticipated, unique weapons.

--

What I would do to make it better:

This is actually a very complex and difficult question. After much thought, I think the best would be providing a reliable way to obtain Orokin Reactors/Catalysts and the Glaive. Please note that reliable does not mean easy: it just means that it's a way you can rely on because you have a certain degree of agency on the outcome.

In the present, I'd finally implement reward tiers for Endless Defense missions (the most challenging thing we have on the game as of now) and make the high level waves have a (low) chance of giving Orokin Reactor/Catalyst BPs or Glaive BPs as the reward, between other valuable items like rare mods (Multishot, Focus, Flow, etc), Banshee BPs, etc.

In the future, I'd really appreciate something similar for difficulty modes, but I can't really elaborate about it because we don't even know how these will be implemented.

This needs to be balanced really carefully, as making the chance to obtain these items too high can have a negative effect on the community, that is, it would cheapen the items and generate another stale situation where you already "maxed" every weapon/warframe you wanted, and are left without further goals.

I would not eliminate Potato Alerts or Glaive Alerts. I feel like when we have another way to obtain these (even if its a difficult way) we will find waiting for these alerts less tedious, and missing them less frustrating. They would become more like a bonus, if you know what I mean.

--

So what do you think of the current system?

What would you change, if anything?

Feel free to discuss ^^

~Cali

Edited by CaligoIllioneus
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Great ideas

 

I got my own for the alert what if all the players could vote to summon an alert the for a specific item the more players vote for it the bigger the chance of that iteam appearing and the harder it gets to compleate. For example 100 people vote to get a glave alert so it finally appears but with lvl 100 enemies on a challenging map.

 

That would kind off give the clan a better purpose you send a clan message on that time and day vote for that and that and you get yourself a nice wee teem and voting :D

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I dont like how most of the good alerts with the items you want tend to be in the middle of the night or early in the morning when your at class/work/sleeping. If you miss it then your screwed until the next random time.

 

Also i have only seen like 6-8 reward alerts in the last 2 days show up in  the twitter feed. Not sure whats going on.

 

Also we have no idea when we will get a chance to get items like the glaive, no one wants to have to stare at a twitter feed all day in hope of getting the alert they want.

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Good post. I agree with your opinions. I'll add an idea.

One solution I had for rare ? alerts would be to add to its duration considerably, but with a substantial increase in difficulty. There doesn't seem to be anything special about alert missions other than ? rewards and credit bonuses, but its content is no different. There's nothing unique about what's inside.

What if some alerts could be more like events. A 12-24 hour, maybe even longer, alert mission that takes a while to complete, with multiple objectives requiring teamwork, and level 100+ enemies (maybe even including two bosses to fight at once). This way it cannot be farmed, its still random and keeps the reward's rarity, but players have more time to prepare and get to the computer to go for it. Completing the mission would feel like an accomplishment and the ? reward more deserved. (Seriously the mission should be haaaard). Tennos who are too weak to accomplish the mission would have more incentive to train for the next big ? alert mission. Tennos who have already earned the rewards or accomplished the mission would possibly receive more gratification by helping friends and clan-mates complete these challenges rather than farming the same defense map for hours.

Importantly, I won't have to panic at a dinner date with my girlfriend when an alert notification for a glaive bp pops up because I'll have a whole day to enter the mission.

Edited by TrevV
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I am very frustrated that Alerts are the only way to obtain artifacts.  I have to work a regular job and I'm doing classes online.  Between my obligations, I have little time to play on most days.  The days that I do play seem to be the days alerts don't give the artifacts I'm looking for.

 

This morning, I checked to see the Energy Siphon artifact on Twitter, but I have to leave for work.  I think they need a bit more control over when the artifacts are available.  Putting them on when people are at work is just demoralizing.

 

I think Alerts should be a way to earn bonus credits and resources.  Alerts at locations which are harder to unlock (higher level) should give significantly more and rarer resources due to the efforts of unlocking those locations.  Equippable items should be earned in regular missions, not through a RNG system that penalizes people who have obligations outside of the game.

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I'd like to make a suggestion. Why not keep the alerts for artifacts and skins as they are, but also make a system that, let's say in theory, on every 20 alerts done, you get a random alert between Banshee BP, Glaive BP and Orokin reactor BP. That way you can get the important stuff even if you are at home and not checking twitter every day, while the only alerts you will lose will be just some artifacts or skins.

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I am very frustrated that Alerts are the only way to obtain artifacts.  I have to work a regular job and I'm doing classes online.  Between my obligations, I have little time to play on most days.  The days that I do play seem to be the days alerts don't give the artifacts I'm looking for.

 

This morning, I checked to see the Energy Siphon artifact on Twitter, but I have to leave for work.  I think they need a bit more control over when the artifacts are available.  Putting them on when people are at work is just demoralizing.

 

I think Alerts should be a way to earn bonus credits and resources.  Alerts at locations which are harder to unlock (higher level) should give significantly more and rarer resources due to the efforts of unlocking those locations.  Equippable items should be earned in regular missions, not through a RNG system that penalizes people who have obligations outside of the game.

The problem is, that the alerts are globally, meaning: you go to work, someone on the other side of the world gets home from work and thinks: Yay just in time for an awesome alert.

I would have a suggestion on how to make the alerts more userfriendly or at least not so frustrating.

The suggestion would be, that an alert appears, lasts for his duration of probably half an hour and then ends. Only that it would reappear 12 hours later, but you could only participate in the reapperance of the alert if you didnt take part in the first appearance.

Example:

Today at 09:00 AM EDT a Glaive-Alert happens. In Germany it would be 03:00 pm, most people would be working. They see the twitter and think: Damn there goes my Glaive. F***. Only that they would have the chance to do it again at 03:00 am (not a good time, but you could do it) and still get the Glaive. 2 Chances for everything, if you happen to miss the first you should be able to make it to the second one. At least most of the time.

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Currently liking the ideas.

 

Minor thing, I'd consider just trimming the alert rewards slightly and putting their blueprints in the shop. I don't get why the Dual Heat Swords are easily available for everyone but if someone wanted to just wield one of them for whatever reason, they'd have to rely on alerts unless they really wanted to spend the platinum for the heat dagger.

 

Plasma Sword? That's basically the Gram if it were smaller, don't see what's so wrong in putting that in the market as well.

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..Today at 09:00 AM EDT a Glaive-Alert happens. In Germany it would be 03:00 pm, most people would be working. They see the twitter and think: Damn there goes my Glaive. F***. Only that they would have the chance to do it again at 03:00 am (not a good time, but you could do it) and still get the Glaive. 2 Chances for everything, if you happen to miss the first you should be able to make it to the second one. At least most of the time.

 

Or as with the Glaive Alert this morning, 4AM for Australians.

 

If high value alerts are going to be staggered, they need to be done at least 3 times - because 4PM in Australia is going to annoy just as many people as 4am because most will still be at the office.

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Alerts should be changed that they give a 'spin at the wheel' for every one done, giving you a reward from a loot list, which would be random for every player. Bulk mats would make up the large portion of the distribution with blueprints and artifacts making up the rarer drops, potato being the rarest of them all. The drop chance would also be weighted against which system the alert is in, with early game planets having a reduced chance for blueprints/artifacts and late game planets having an increased chance.

 

Right now there's no point in running non-reward alerts in Pluto because of how suicidal it would be for how little the reward is. Same with 2k CR alerts, since they give little for what potentially may be a very hard mission. The change will make every alert important, however little the payout would be because every alert would mean another chance at the roulette table for potentially another potato.

 

Right now there's no point in even playing, since you have to have your eyes glued to the twitter at all times to avoid missing anything (RIP sleep). It would also reduce a lot of the rage and the misconceptions (glaive may as well be pay2win since alerts for them are once in a blue moon, and then only for 15 minutes at 4AM when everyone's asleep) and solve the time zone issue at the same time.

 

Besides that, the system is pretty broken at the moment (every alert is against the infested, there's been 12 alerts in a row where it's been just 2k CR)

Edited by Stu_Alpha
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Alerts should be changed that they give a 'spin at the wheel' for every one done, giving you a reward from a loot list, which would be random for every player. Bulk mats would make up the large portion of the distribution with blueprints and artifacts making up the rarer drops, potato being the rarest of them all. The drop chance would also be weighted against which system the alert is in, with early game planets having a reduced chance for blueprints/artifacts and late game planets having an increased chance.

 

Right now there's no point in running non-reward alerts in Pluto because of how suicidal it would be for how little the reward is. Same with 2k CR alerts, since they give little for what potentially may be a very hard mission. The change will make every alert important, however little the payout would be because every alert would mean another chance at the roulette table for potentially another potato.

 

Right now there's no point in even playing, since you have to have your eyes glued to the twitter at all times to avoid missing anything (RIP sleep). It would also reduce a lot of the rage and the misconceptions (glaive may as well be pay2win since alerts for them are once in a blue moon, and then only for 15 minutes at 4AM when everyone's asleep) and solve the time zone issue at the same time.

 

Besides that, the system is pretty broken at the moment (every alert is against the infested, there's been 12 alerts in a row where it's been just 2k CR)

 

Just a comment: remember 2k credits is the "base" reward, if a 2k credit alert is on Pluto you end up getting about 8k because of the scaling.

 

 

biggest pile of S#&$  The main problem is that this is REAL-TIME.

 

I know you feel strongly about the issue because you missed the Glaive, and I'm sorry, but try to be a bit more constructive, at least for the sake of your argument. DE (and other people) are more willing to listen to constructive arguments, even if they're very critic of the system.

Edited by CaligoIllioneus
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Just a comment: remember 2k credits is the "base" reward, if a 2k credit alert is on Pluto you end up getting about 8k because of the scaling.

 

Though 8k for running against level 50 mobs would be a bit too much for me.

 

And now that there's yet another dual rubedo blade skin on alert, after there were two others not too long ago (6 hours). It's getting pretty silly now that the 'pay2lookgood' skins showed up more often than the new weapon class over the last week. Yeah they'll be another alert, but as far as anyone goes the RNG may put it to late 2014 just to spite everyone.

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Great ideas

 

I got my own for the alert what if all the players could vote to summon an alert the for a specific item the more players vote for it the bigger the chance of that iteam appearing and the harder it gets to compleate. For example 100 people vote to get a glave alert so it finally appears but with lvl 100 enemies on a challenging map.

 

That would kind off give the clan a better purpose you send a clan message on that time and day vote for that and that and you get yourself a nice wee teem and voting :D

 

this might be really great for core players but this system would make it impossible for new player to optain certain artifacts or blueprint that the core members would never get any use for agian

 

what am trying to say is this system would only benefit core members (you) 

 

also it would give big clans to farm just the things they need & smaller clans can will just have to follow the big clans.

 

So many issues with this system, no way it would ever work

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What I would do to make it better:

I think the best would be providing a reliable way to obtain Orokin Reactors/Catalysts and the Glaive. Please note that reliable does not mean easy: it just means that it's a way you can rely on because you have a certain degree of agency on the outcome.

 

 

 

 

 

There's an easier way for those who can't stand the luck factor of the Alert System, use Platinum. I've been missing several artifacts and helmets that i wanted repeatably and i never cried like that. They will appear again some other time, but you also don't need to camp whole day for a specific alert, that's crazy, it's not like they only appear 1 time per year. Time zone problems also fit here, what if you lost this time? just wait until next one.

 

It doesn't need to be changed players need to learn to adapt to it, otherwise it would be way too easy to get all the blueprints of the game.

Edited by g43riel
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As someone who actually got you-know-what today, and has completed a nice assortment of artifacts and alert-only gear...I don't particularly like the alert system, as it stands.

 

The time-based randomness thing punishes more "casual" players for not constantly monitoring the game, and invokes the kind of fanbase rage that is popping up today when something that is widely desired comes and goes at an inconvenient time.

 

If a time-based system is being used, I think that it'd be better to use a sort of "shifts" system, where a group of "?" alerts are chosen for a day and then each is randomly scattered through-out the day multiple times. At least 3 times, I think, would be best. Divide the day into 8-hour slices, and each alert shows up at a random time in each 8-hour period. That way, alerts are less about "did you get lucky on this particular day" and is more like the daily reward system, giving you incentive to pay attention to the game on a daily basis.

 

Another way to relax the "tension" that the alert system gets as far as its rewards go would create a player-oriented way of acquiring alert-only rewards, but with more randomness and lower general chances. A player could go on a "forced" alert(and there should be a system in place for randoms to join them) with a random mission type and about a 2-3% chance of getting a random alert reward from the mission. The missions should be exceptionally difficult(at least Pluto-alert level), and the players should only be informed about rewards(if any) after the mission is complete.

 

Just giving players a way to actively seek alert rewards, even an inefficient and difficult way, would go a long way towards keeping people from raging at missing an alert.

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There's an easier way for those who can't stand the luck factor of the Alert System, use Platinum. I've been missing several artifacts and helmets repeatably and i never cried like that. They will appear again some other time, but you also don't need to camp whole day for a specific alert, that's crazy, it's not like they only appear 1 time per year.

 

It doesn't need to be changed players need to learn to adapt to it, otherwise it would be way too easy to get all the blueprints of the game.

 

People have adapted to it, insomnia and all.

 

Saying to just buy it leaves a bad taste in plenty of player's mouths, it's like you're indirectly saying that you can only buy it or run the intentionally impossible treadmill. A lot of games I played before used that trick to hide the pay to win, and it's honestly a dirty trick that I would not want to play the game for.

 

To put it this way, 'You can get this suppressed rifle to make stealth doable if you wait for an event, even though there hasn't been one for two months, and the last one was for 15 minutes in the dead of night' is worse that 'You can buy this suppressed rifle' because the company in this case had the nerve to hide a pay-only weapon behind a grind that can not be done by any normal human being, just to try to dodge the 'pay2win' label.

 

I still say that a 'complete alerts for tickets to the roulette table' solution would be the best fix to the problem. Blacklight does this last I check, giving you the chance to acquire pay items if you keep playing instead of staring at the twitter 24/7.

Edited by Stu_Alpha
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People have adapted to it, insomnia and all.

 

Saying to just buy it leaves a bad taste in plenty of player's mouths, it's like you're indirectly saying that you can only buy it or run the intentionally impossible treadmill. A lot of games I played before used that trick to hide the pay to win, and it's honestly a dirty trick that I would not want to play the game for.

so far i haven't paid for anything in warframe, also i don't have a lot of time to spent like some ppl do over night, but i don't cry that Alert Missions suck and that it should be changed because i always lose most alerts that i wanted when i'm not online. No, that's dumb. It took a lot of time and alerts missed when i was luckily online and finally got the helmet i wanted.

 

So yeah ppl need to adapt, calm the F*** down and wait until they have the chance, or do the easy Platinum way.

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I'm more or less repeating myself here, but my major issue with the alerts is that the same alerts will not appear for everyone, it seems. As of right now, I don't have a real problem to mention. So yeah... 

 

There ya go.

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so far i haven't paid for anything in warframe, also i don't have a lot of time to spent like some ppl do over night, but i don't cry that Alert Missions suck and that it should be changed because i always lose most alerts that i wanted when i'm not online. No, that's dumb. It took a lot of time and alerts missed when i was luckily online and finally got the helmet i wanted.

 

So yeah ppl need to adapt, calm the F*** down and wait until they have the chance, or do the easy Platinum way.

 

 

I was not crying because I didn't get my items. I have like 80% of the alt helmets, all artifacts, the Glaive, all weapon skins but the Manticore, plenty of potatos, etc.

 

I still think the system is flawed because it doesn't represent a goal, like I explained in the OP:

Edited by CaligoIllioneus
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I'm more or less repeating myself here, but my major issue with the alerts is that the same alerts will not appear for everyone, it seems. As of right now, I don't have a real problem to mention. So yeah... 

 

There ya go.

 

What do you mean with "the same alerts will not appear for everyone"?

 

I wasn't aware of this issue.

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so far i haven't paid for anything in warframe, also i don't have a lot of time to spent like some ppl do over night, but i don't cry that Alert Missions suck and that it should be changed because i always lose most alerts that i wanted when i'm not online. No, that's dumb. It took a lot of time and alerts missed when i was luckily online and finally got the helmet i wanted.

 

So yeah ppl need to adapt, calm the F*** down and wait until they have the chance, or do the easy Platinum way.

 

I can wait, I'll probably go on hiatus from this game since waiting for the glaive was the only encouragement for me to keep playing, and I do have a library of games to chip away at, but the longer it takes for another one to pop up, the longer people will get fustrated. I don't want my potato alerts for example to become an exercise in frustration because the host thought his mission in life is to get revenge on glaive users for not getting one and pull his connection at extraction to kick everyone back to the lobby just to satisfy himself.

 

Also, not everyone's quick or able like me to buy the shiny toys when they missed it, like the potato alerts back in February. The '15% of players buy stuff' rule still applies, and of course if they leave the game dies since the people who regularally buy stuff won't buy stuff for a game they think is dieing.

Edited by Stu_Alpha
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There's an easier way for those who can't stand the luck factor of the Alert System, use Platinum. I've been missing several artifacts and helmets that i wanted repeatably and i never cried like that. They will appear again some other time, but you also don't need to camp whole day for a specific alert, that's crazy, it's not like they only appear 1 time per year. Time zone problems also fit here, what if you lost this time? just wait until next one.

 

It doesn't need to be changed players need to learn to adapt to it, otherwise it would be way too easy to get all the blueprints of the game.

 

Same general stuff Stu_Alpha said but to me buying something doesn't feel like winning. It feels like I suck that bad at the game I have to buy what I want. Yes its a personal opinion but so is saying Platinum is a good thing. We need some way to influence our chances or in the end whats going to happen is no-one is logged in or doing missions until that alert they want pops up then the servers get fried from the sudden spike in activity.

 

Which brings me to my idea instead of having ? alerts be random as all hell make them something else "Artifact Recovery Operations" would be the first thing that comes to mind.

 

Alerts could give you pieces of intel (what does all that intel we collect on all those spy missions actually do?). Each piece = a point. For lower artifacts/aesthetics you need X number of intel (lets go with 25) and for blueprints you need X (50? its high but they have to keep platinum relevant some how, they just have to). So the alerts actually make sense, all these worthless alerts become worthwhile, and you get a chance to actually work for what you want. I'm not saying all alerts are spy missions either. Defense = defending the whatever while the lotus hacks in to get the intel, Spy = enough said, Boss elimination = idk about you but i would assume commanders of things to have some sort of valuable intel on them, Rescue = kinda hard... idk he overheard plans or was caught spying and managed to hide the stolen intel.

 

Completing the bonus objective of alerts grants an extra intel instead of the normal reward.

 

And finally alerts should have a low chance (talkin like 5% or less) to automatically have a new objective mid mission with a blueprint as the reward OR grant 50 intel randomly on completion.

 

In this system you cant just get what you want, you have to work for it. But at the same time its casual/real life friendly unlike now. I would alsolike to see special alerts not take place on places we go to regularly, unless its an outdoor environment on a planet which I can see, instead have it be a ship somewhere in the solar system (big map) or at least not on one of the normal nodes it just doesn't make sense to me (i fully realize this is not a big deal but its something i would like to see). I think alerts should be harder too, not endgame exclusive hard but lets say average level of the group X2 so its an actual challenge not just a normal mission.

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