<Underclocking Mods> (Mentioned On Livestream)

[DreadScourge]

Awesome idea! I never levelled my mods past level 4 cos I was afraid it wouldn't fit.

Plus 1 for implementation please

My main objective is to alleviate that! Judging by the overwhelming support so far, it seems everyone's in your shoes, so DE will probably take interest!

[Kaidinah]

Wonderful idea! I approve!

[DreadScourge]

Wonderful idea! I approve!

And I approve of you approving!

[DreadScourge]

200 thumbs! Thank you guys so much <3!!

[Drusus]

So, from the livestream, the good news is they want to do something to accommodate the ability to 'back install' mods.

 

Bad news for the Op is that the underclock approach, specifically, was called out as too complex to implement effectively.

 

Grats though on getting a direct mention and consideration!  Proof the Devs do indeed look at good ideas that have community support.

[Worira]

The problem is that the thing they mentioned, unfusing mods, is kinda garbage. Having to spend additional resources to fine-tune mods for different builds is awful, especially on the scale that high-level mods cost.

[Fredlicious]

I was pretty disappointed with the response given to the idea in the livestream. In short, for those who missed it, the devs seem more in support of the ability to permanently de-level mods where you lose anything used in the original fusion. The argument for this was that Warframe is meant to be a game of "consequence," but the actual impact of such a system is essentially the same as the current system: people are discouraged from playing a variety of builds, either as a means of experimentation or to provide a more varied experience.

 

On the flip side, it's possible that the prestige system will alleviate half of the problem, since once you have enough polarities on a Warframe/weapon, you probably won't run into any capacity problems at all. It still doesn't address the issue that, once you have a bunch of high rank mods, your new (or newly prestiged) Warframes and weapons will absolutely suck for the majority of the leveling process, as they won't have the capacity to equip anything you've got.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Fredlicious

[Drusus]

The problem is that the thing they mentioned, unfusing mods, is kinda garbage. Having to spend additional resources to fine-tune mods for different builds is awful, especially on the scale that high-level mods cost.

It means they wants us to maintain duplicates if we want different power levels.  Doesn't bother me too much, just gives me a reason not to fuse everything into a central item.  While I'd like that function, I can certainly manage with it as is.

[Worira]

Yes, and that's dumb. Fusion costs are already ridiculous, especially since rare mods essentially do not drop. Essentially, it's just making the game worse for the hell of it.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Worira

[DreadScourge]

I was pretty disappointed with the response given to the idea in the livestream. In short, for those who missed it, the devs seem more in support of the ability to permanently de-level mods where you lose anything used in the original fusion. The argument for this was that Warframe is meant to be a game of "consequence," but the actual impact of such a system is essentially the same as the current system: people are discouraged from playing a variety of builds, either as a means of experimentation or to provide a more varied experience.

 

On the flip side, it's possible that the prestige system will alleviate half of the problem, since once you have enough polarities on a Warframe/weapon, you probably won't run into any capacity problems at all. It still doesn't address the issue that, once you have a bunch of high rank mods, your new (or newly prestiged) Warframes and weapons will absolutely suck for the majority of the leveling process, as they won't have the capacity to equip anything you've got.

 

Yeah, but we got mentioned, and that's important. DE pays attention and they proved that today. Should they add it, DEvs will listen to feedback on the system and one day we will find a balance for it.

 

Also, I can't wait for prestige.

Edited May 8, 2013 by DreadScourge

[TheDerpening]

This basically means that we'd either have to keep a huge cache of unfused mods to keep in different power stages, or that mods would become a literal resource sink. If you have new warframes, you'd have either a very few overpowered mods you wouldn't be able to utilize or defuse very expensive mods into a lesser cost one, and eat the cost of the dozens of other mods you spent making it. I don't understand how that would be useful in any possible way. I would also think it would be easier to increment/decrement mod costs by rank than to store more mods. If they plan on defusing, they need to significantly increase mod drop rate to balance out the cost of potentially losing mods.

Edited May 8, 2013 by TheDerpening

[DreadScourge]

This basically means that we'd either have to keep a huge cache of unfused mods to keep in different power stages, or that mods would become a literal resource sink. If you have new warframes, you'd have either a very few overpowered mods you wouldn't be able to utilize or defuse very expensive mods into a lesser cost one, and eat the cost of the dozens of other mods you spent making it. I don't understand how that would be useful in any possible way. I would also think it would be easier to increment/decrement mod costs by rank than to store more mods. If they plan on defusing, they need to significantly increase mod drop rate to balance out the cost of potentially losing mods.

 

Well we can give feedback on the system later, if they implement it.

[TheSteelPhantom]

Awesome that the topic was mentioned. Great idea. We'll see how it gets implemented now.

[DreadScourge]

Awesome that the topic was mentioned. Great idea. We'll see how it gets implemented now.

Yep! I have faith in DE - all they have done so far is mad me a happy, dedicated player. 

[Hemlox]

I didn't read all of the posts, but here's my take, and it may have already been said.

 

I think there should be a penalty for tuning down the power of your mods.

 

I DO think we should be allowed to decrease a mod's rank, but we shouldn't get the cards/mods/cores back that we upgraded it with. 

 

This keeps the planning on the front end of speccing your frame, but it doesn't entirely throw us up a creek if we've overmodded a little bit and need to turn something down to make room for another more important mod. 

 

Let us turn the volume knob down on our mods, but make us pay the price to re-upgrade.

 

Planning is essential, if we could turn them up and down willy-nilly, with no penalty, we wouldn't have to think twice about powering everything up to the max level, effectively making it ideal to have one max level of each card to swap in and out of our multiple frames.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Hemlox

[DreadScourge]

 

I DO think we should be allowed to decrease a mod's rank, but we shouldn't get the cards/mods/cores back that we upgraded it with. 

 

Let us turn the volume knob down on our mods, but make us pay the price to re-upgrade.

 

Planning is essential, if we could turn them up and down willy-nilly, with no penalty, we wouldn't have to think twice about powering everything up to the max level, effectively making it ideal to have one max level of each card to swap in and out of our multiple frames.

 

I'd rather pay in resources than playing for a week straight, trying to recapture that 10th Hornet Strike mod. I'm all for "penalties fitting procedures," but that is simply masochistic. 

[PapaKicks]

So let's brainstorm...

 

How can we achieve the same functionality as the original post, but in a less complicated method?

[Drakontis]

How about if you derank, you get a fusion core that will rank from rank ? to ?. So if you de-rank Redirection from 12 down to eleven, you get a Fusion Core 11-12 that will give you that much fuse power. It would also cost more to fuse in. This would make Deranking and fusing into more of a credit sink rather than a time/farming sink. 

[PapaKicks]

How about if you derank, you get a fusion core that will rank from rank ? to ?. So if you de-rank Redirection from 12 down to eleven, you get a Fusion Core 11-12 that will give you that much fuse power. It would also cost more to fuse in. This would make Deranking and fusing into more of a credit sink rather than a time/farming sink. 

 

Love it. Possible problem though - what's to stop the player from simply migrating all that power to a new mod? I believe the devs want some form of permanence to your choices.

[PapaKicks]

My first thought: Dropping mods into an item automatically delevels it.

 

Example one:

You have 11 mod slots...

You drop in a mod with 9 power...

You have two left, you drop in a mod with 6 power, it automatically scales down to two, (rank 0).

You have no mods slots left...

If you level the weapon to 12 mod slots, the mod automatically increases to three (rank 1).

 

Example two:

You have 4 mod slots...

You drop in a mod with 9 power...

The mod automatically scales down to 4 power (rank 1).

You have no mod slots left...

 

This is not nearly as powerful as the original idea, but would allow you to use a fully ranked mod when you otherwise couldn't. 

Edited May 9, 2013 by Akivoodoo

[Fredlicious]

Planning is essential, if we could turn them up and down willy-nilly, with no penalty, we wouldn't have to think twice about powering everything up to the max level, effectively making it ideal to have one max level of each card to swap in and out of our multiple frames.

 

Why is this a bad thing? I don't particularly mind there being a credit cost involved with tuning the level of a mod, but considering the grind to get any of the 10-rank or rare mods to max rank, why shouldn't that be the ultimate goal as far as mods go? How is having one of each rank of each mod more intuitive or less complicated?

 

I get the idea of trying to give spec choices some level of consequence, but the existing system encourages either more mindless grinding or less varied play, neither of which seems like a good thing.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Fredlicious

[liavalenth]

I have been doing the math and, beyond extreme impatience to the point of being willing to waist resources, or lack of foresight, there is no reason to underclock a mod with the system they plan to use according to the live stream. I realize that they want a penalty to choices, but this system is one that no one should ever actually use.

 

The basis for this comes down to, if you underclock a mod with this system you lose all the mods that it cost to make it. Interestingly, due to the fact that it cost double the number of mods per level, this means to increase it back to the level you had it at costs 1 less than just making a new one with the level you want. And, if you make a new one, you have one of both levels forever, insteadof having to spend the amount again to make it a level higher again.

 

If people would like to see the full math I can work on it and post it, but it is fairly easy to see the problem I think. Long story short, if they implement it this way I would prefer they not implement it at all in case I ever accidentally do it and waist what could be a large amount of resources.

 

EDIT: I am doing this math assuming you are using only copies of the mod, making it the most effecient possible. If you were not this would actually turn out worse.

Edited May 9, 2013 by liavalenth

[Reaver_X]

I think this could be useful...but u know what else would be useful? Being able to change polarity symbols in your gear to suit the mods you wanna use instead of just being stuck with whatevers there. What do u guys think of that?

 

 

and maybe they could make it possible to add extra plarity slot via a cost of like 5 or 10 platinum or something? i dunno what do u guys think? or 10,000 credits

Edited May 9, 2013 by Reaver_X

[TheSteelPhantom]

I think this could be useful...but u know what else would be useful? Being able to change polarity symbols in your gear to suit the mods you wanna use instead of just being stuck with whatevers there. What do u guys think of that?

 

This was discussed today (8 May 13) during the livestream. Via prestige'ing a warframe/weapon, players will be able to reset its level to 0 and re-level it to 30, but will be able to change one of its polarity slots to something else. This will be repeatable until you have the desired polarities.

[pixelsafoison]

DE, this please =D