Please Stop Comparing This Game To Aaa Titles.

[cknives]

Making vague generalizations about a whole group of people does absolutely nothing to reinforce your point. The whole point of this thread was meant to use verifiable, hard evidence from the gaming industry and its revenue generation to point out that copying high budget titles will not ensure the games success. It isn't supposed to be free players vs paid players. Both are necessary. I've never thought of free players as below me. In game, I can't tell who has paid and who hasn't, I only care if you can help me complete the objective and have fun.

 

There are a problem group of people that light needs to be shed on, and its the naysayers that refuse to look at evidence and continue to demand that this game pander more and more to a business model that will result in the game going belly up in less than a year.

 

If you are going to contribute to the thread, please use logic and statistics whenever possible. Making statements like VIPS are $&*^s helps nobody.

 

Without actual industry data we cant make informed predictions.

 

There are a few general facts that apply to all online games paid or free.

 

#1 You need a solid player base. If people cant find some one to quest with or to fight against the game dies.(F2Ps are usually the majority of a F2P game)

#2 Players expect a fair environment. Hackers and botters get banned because they break this rule. Pay to win also breaks this rule.(pve/pvp makes no difference players are always competitive)

 

Those are facts.

 

Now my opionion based on experience:  If you provide value in the cash shop people will buy it. If you try to trick or force people to buy stuff (warframe slots) they will resent it and may not spend anything.

 

For the company gettin 5$ for some glowing skins is the same as getting 5$ for slots. To the end user spending 5$ to look really cool compared to the F2Ps is much more valueable than getting some slots you should have in the first place.

Its all about perceived value.

[AberforthBrixby]

Without actual industry data we cant make informed predictions.

 

There are a few general facts that apply to all online games paid or free.

 

#1 You need a solid player base. If people cant find some one to quest with or to fight against the game dies.(F2Ps are usually the majority of a F2P game)

#2 Players expect a fair environment. Hackers and botters get banned because they break this rule. Pay to win also breaks this rule.(pve/pvp makes no difference players are always competitive)

 

Those are facts.

 

Now my opionion based on experience:  If you provide value in the cash shop people will buy it. If you try to trick or force people to buy stuff (warframe slots) they will resent it and may not spend anything.

 

For the company gettin 5$ for some glowing skins is the same as getting 5$ for slots. To the end user spending 5$ to look really cool compared to the F2Ps is much more valueable than getting some slots you should have in the first place.

Its all about perceived value.

 

You're right in that it is perceived value, but the problem is, the more commodities become accessible, the less valuable they become ala real life economics. In your opinion, based on how many people play this game, if we made the cash shop 100% cosmetic, colors, skins, etc, do you really think this game would make enough money to survive more than a year? Bigger, much much bigger games than this one have done exactly that in an order to emulate the success of Triple-A titles, and it always fails, as I pointed out in another thread. Exteel by NCSoft, Global Agenda by HiRez Studios, 9Dragons, s4Arena, tons of games have all tried this model and either ended up being cancelled from lack of revenue or desperately changed back to the old style when numbers rapidly declined.

 

Look up Global Agenda specifically. They released a news report right when they switched to a F2P model that "player/revenue numbers are higher than ever." The game barely lasted a year after that. There was no incentive other than "looking cool" to actually spend on the game. For 0 money you could do anything but look a darker shade of black or have one less horn on your helmet, so why bother spending right?

 

I played all of those games I listed. I invested in every single one of them. I don't want to see another good game fail from refusing to look at basic textbook concepts.

Edited May 2, 2013 by AberforthBrixby

[Bakim0n0]

-
"This is getting ridiculous. I understand that games like LoL, DOTA, and TF2 also use a cash shop mechanic, but it is completely ignorant to put Warframe on the same playing field as any of those titles in terms of well, anything really. Marketing, exposure, playerbase, funding, dev team, everything. I mean come on. Blizzard? Valve? How can any of you really think that DE can produce on the same terms as studios like that?"
_

Blizzard did not develop any of those games; two of those games were essentially formed in someone's mom's garage with 1-2 people and slowly grew. With Valve you have some room to stand on, but seriously LoL and DOTA are *not* AAA titles.
 

-

People here say "this game should use a paid cosmetic cash shop system like (insert above title) if they want to survive"

 

But that's stupid. Those games don't survive because of their cash shops. Their cash shops survive because of the games they are attached to. TF2 had a MASSIVE playerbase before its cash shop was even introduced, with all of its steam hype, preorder bonuses attached to other games, players from TF classic etc. That game is huge and successful and never even needed a cash shop to survive, that was simply icing on the cake.

-

Not really true, basically every f2p game that is up and running need vibrant cash shops to stay alive regardless of how solid the origonal title is; in fact there are solid titles that had a very loyal and dedicated playerbase that went under because their cash shop wasn't maintaining their overhead and the game was simply slowly bleeding money.

-

LoL and DOTA not only have heavy hitter dev teams backing them, but they are associated with Major League Gaming, giving them an incredible amount of market exposure basically for free. People are jumping in to these games hoping to be the next pro regardless of the cash shop mechanics. That was never part of its appeal to bring people in, it simply makes the ride more entertaining once you're on it. Nobody ever looked at those games and said "I want to play that game because of it's well balanced payment model." It doesn't even need its cash shop once again in order to stay afloat as a result of what it has going for it already.
-

They do *now* yes, but they were nobodies when they broke the scene. DE isn't exactly some obscure unheard of company without exposure either, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.
 

-

Warframe has no massive dev team. It doesn't have a huge marketing campaign. It is not a part of any E-sport program. It does not have a huge AAA budget backed by EA or Activision. A small amount of exposure and its rinky-dink cash shop is literally all it has going for it.

-

 

I'd wager they have more going for it considering their resume; likely not enough to keep the company floating in of itself however.

-

Acting like it can survive on the same cash shop principles as games that have the above stated is simply silly and ignorant. Those games would survive regardless of their cash shop. Warframe is the opposite. It doesn't have nearly the required playerbase to make a purely cosmetic cash shop work. Its simple economics. So seriously, think a bit before you go about making a statement like "Look at LoL's cash shop, no wonder it's so popular. Warframe should copy that."
-

I do agree with you here in a lot of ways... Most of the people who are so critical of DE's payment model make statements out of complete ignorance of where DE stands. I'm confident DE understand what they really need out of their payment model and will adjust accordingly; and anyone outside of the staff could only offer raw speculation of their opinion based on incomplete data.

[Cifrer]

How can any of you really think that DE can produce on the same terms as studios like that?"

 

I'm sorry, but this line right here makes me want to throw up.  Great job insulting the dev team.

 

If you want to make a point and actually do a good job of it, try not to start right out by saying the dev team here sucks.

 

In my experience, the only thing "AAA" titles have is a big budget and tons of advertising.

 

 

On the topic of how the cash shop works, there will always be people who complain if they have to spend money for something.  The cash shop here is fairly good in my opinion.  Things aren't ridiculously over priced, there are alternative ways to get the vast majority of things in there.  I have no complaints about it personally.

 

The alert system on the other hand could use a bit of work, that makes people rage for no real reason.

[Bakim0n0]

Again... why is everyone forgetting LoL and DOTA came from someone's garage? You don't get any more "from scratch" than these games. DOTA 2 has some push behind it sure but they paid their dues to get there.

[cknives]

You're right in that it is perceived value, but the problem is, the more commodities become accessible, the less valuable they become ala real life economics. In your opinion, based on how many people play this game, if we made the cash shop 100% cosmetic, colors, skins, etc, do you really think this game would make enough money to survive more than a year? Bigger, much much bigger games than this one have done exactly that in an order to emulate the success of Triple-A titles, and it always fails, as I pointed out in another thread. Exteel by NCSoft, Global Agenda by HiRez Studios, 9Dragons, s4Arena, tons of games have all tried this model and either ended up being cancelled from lack of revenue or desperately changed back to the old style when numbers rapidly declined.

 

Look up Global Agenda specifically. They released a news report right when they switched to a F2P model that "player/revenue numbers are higher than ever." The game barely lasted a year after that. There was no incentive other than "looking cool" to actually spend on the game. For 0 money you could do anything but look a darker shade of black or have one less horn on your helmet, so why bother spending right?

 

I played all of those games I listed. I invested in every single one of them. I don't want to see another good game fail from refusing to look at basic textbook concepts.

 

I played and loved both exteel and GA.

 

I bought a ton of stuff in exteel. I dont think the cash shop was the problem with that game it just was 2 niche and did not have anough marketing.

 

I actually paid for GA when it first came out(50$) i felt quite burned when i saw how little content it had at first release. I argued on the forums just like here on how they could improve and keep the player base. They decided to stay with their planed monthly sub fee strategy wich made every one including me quit. After that they changed to F2P but with all the bugs and laag + most of the player base already left it was to late.

 

So how do these compared to warframe?  Well warframe RIGHT NOW is on the front page of steam. Thats massive 1 week on the front page of steam will get you more players than exteel had in its entire life. The problem is the game is in BETA and the cash shop is screwed up. So the same thing as GA could happen where the current player base runs out of Content and disapointed with the cash shop practices and quits. Then later when they fix it they wont have the steam front page exposure and wont be able to sustain the game on cosmetics alone.

 

Do i think cosmetics alone could pay for this game? Maybe.. the player base is probably big enough. That being said. They can sell anything they want as long as its fair and available in game.

 

Example: If i was DE i would sell the warframe BP parts. Every one thats farmed for warframe BPs knows how frustrating the last BP is(systems usualy) If they sold it in the cash shop for a good price(value)like ~30-40plat. They would sell tons of them. If they priced it to where its cheaper to buy all 3 BP parts and craft it(takes more efford and wait time) then again perceived value goes up.

 

In business your always trying to solve a need for your customers. With F2P games your in the unique situation where you can CREATE the need and then sell the solution. You just have to balance the non paid solution so the game stays fair(retaining players) yet makes people want to buy it.

 

Selling BP parts is 1 such soltution. In my opinion.

 

Also the alert system should be a way to get BONUS items. Not the only unpaid way to get them. If you want to keep things rare make them super low % drop chance on really hard encounters.

[AberforthBrixby]

I'm sorry, but this line right here makes me want to throw up.  Great job insulting the dev team.

 

If you want to make a point and actually do a good job of it, try not to start right out by saying the dev team here sucks.

 

In my experience, the only thing "AAA" titles have is a big budget and tons of advertising.

 

 

On the topic of how the cash shop works, there will always be people who complain if they have to spend money for something.  The cash shop here is fairly good in my opinion.  Things aren't ridiculously over priced, there are alternative ways to get the vast majority of things in there.  I have no complaints about it personally.

 

The alert system on the other hand could use a bit of work, that makes people rage for no real reason.

You are completely misinterpreting. I said they can't produce on the same TERMS (ie, conditions like budget, timeframe, manpower etc) as a high budget studio. I never said they can't produce on the same level. There is literally not a single statement in any of my posts indicating that I think DE sucks at anything. I wouldn't have invested in a master level pack were that the case.

[AberforthBrixby]

Again... why is everyone forgetting LoL and DOTA came from someone's garage? You don't get any more "from scratch" than these games. DOTA 2 has some push behind it sure but they paid their dues to get there.

DOTA is a mod created on a engine that blizzard financed and created, it is not a "from scratch" game any more than Counterstrike is in comparison to half life.

[AberforthBrixby]

I played and loved both exteel and GA.

 

I bought a ton of stuff in exteel. I dont think the cash shop was the problem with that game it just was 2 niche and did not have anough marketing.

 

I actually paid for GA when it first came out(50$) i felt quite burned when i saw how little content it had at first release. I argued on the forums just like here on how they could improve and keep the player base. They decided to stay with their planed monthly sub fee strategy wich made every one including me quit. After that they changed to F2P but with all the bugs and laag + most of the player base already left it was to late.

 

So how do these compared to warframe?  Well warframe RIGHT NOW is on the front page of steam. Thats massive 1 week on the front page of steam will get you more players than exteel had in its entire life. The problem is the game is in BETA and the cash shop is screwed up. So the same thing as GA could happen where the current player base runs out of Content and disapointed with the cash shop practices and quits. Then later when they fix it they wont have the steam front page exposure and wont be able to sustain the game on cosmetics alone.

 

Do i think cosmetics alone could pay for this game? Maybe.. the player base is probably big enough. That being said. They can sell anything they want as long as its fair and available in game.

 

Example: If i was DE i would sell the warframe BP parts. Every one thats farmed for warframe BPs knows how frustrating the last BP is(systems usualy) If they sold it in the cash shop for a good price(value)like ~30-40plat. They would sell tons of them. If they priced it to where its cheaper to buy all 3 BP parts and craft it(takes more efford and wait time) then again perceived value goes up.

 

In business your always trying to solve a need for your customers. With F2P games your in the unique situation where you can CREATE the need and then sell the solution. You just have to balance the non paid solution so the game stays fair(retaining players) yet makes people want to buy it.

 

Selling BP parts is 1 such soltution. In my opinion.

 

Also the alert system should be a way to get BONUS items. Not the only unpaid way to get them. If you want to keep things rare make them super low % drop chance on really hard encounters.

I bought a ton of stuff in exteel too. I was in both of its closed betas as well as its open beta, and played it right up until the day they pulled the plug from the servers. With all of my interaction with the community there (I was in a high profile clan), I found most people werent interested in spending money as almost every single worthwhile item was available for free, the exception being that one long range siege cannon, but nobody used siege weaponry in clan matches anyways.

 

All I'm saying is that, at least, until this games playerbase goes up significantly, the current cash shop doesnt need to make a complete 180 to a cosmetic model. I just want people to know that asking for that at this stage is simple more harmful than good. I like to be optimistic, but as of this moment I don't think as many people play this game as you or I would like to believe.

[krisp]

This is getting ridiculous. I understand that games like LoL, DOTA, and TF2 also use a cash shop mechanic, but it is completely ignorant to put Warframe on the same playing field as any of those titles in terms of well, anything really.

Did you know LoL started out as a little indie title with a budget likely no bigger than Warframe?

 

And it still is an indie title. A little food for thought.

[Bakim0n0]

DOTA is a mod created on a engine that blizzard financed and created, it is not a "from scratch" game any more than Counterstrike is in comparison to half life.

Which is another game that was very much from scratch... it was what two guys that made a spin-off that was shown to a very small audience that blew up? Valve was not the giant it is today when CS happened.

[SpartanChief1170]

What is funny is that I never even thought that the people who have invested looked down on those who havent decided yet to the extent that I have learned they do in this post.

I definitely don't look down on free players. Before I graduated from college I was in a situation where I HAD to be a free to play player. But to me getting something for nothing has always left an unsettling feeling for me so I always tried to do what I could to promote the game, report issues, and give constructive feedback.

What I dislike is non-constructive criticism with no logical reasoning or evidence. Or making sweeping generalizations that come from limited knowledge of the "squeaky wheel" minority  of the group. It is simply complaining that is unnecessary and isn't helping the conversation move forward in a constructive manner.

 

Usualy thats not the case. Its only when they get special status like "VIP" or "Founder" that people turn into $&*^s who think they are better than others because they spend 250$ on a free video game. The normal intelligent crowd that spends 10-20$ on some skins or weapon packs generaly dont look down on F2Ps.

Those of us who have spent $250 on this game are mostly doing it either because we want to support the game because we see potential in it, or saw the $400 worth of platinum for $250 and thought why not. (I am in the former personally), calling someone unintelligent  for either of those is just straight up rude.  I am sure there are people out there that paid the 250 and act like they are better than everyone but I would bet that those people would think they are better than everyone regardless of whether they put their money toward the game or not. 

[AberforthBrixby]

Did you know LoL started out as a little indie title with a budget likely no bigger than Warframe?

 

And it still is an indie title. A little food for thought.

It also cashed in one of the current heaviest gaming trends with only one game as direct competition, while being created by former Blizzard employees and employees who worked on the original defense of the ancients, giving it an incredible amount of hype. They didn't even have to advertise it, internet forums everywhere were blowing up. The company also had to put barely any effort in to the concept as the game was designed to be a spiritual successor to DOTA, so they didnt have to worry about innovation at all.

 

You attach the words "from the makers of warcraft" to anything and it's guaranteed gold status.

[AberforthBrixby]

Which is another game that was very much from scratch... it was what two guys that made a spin-off that was shown to a very small audience that blew up? Valve was not the giant it is today when CS happened.

 

Its not from scratch though. I don't know if you have tried programming at all, but the guys who made counter strike barely had to do any programming. With the half life engine already in place, things like physics, interface, graphics rendering, audio rendering and game mechanics are already pre made for them, all they had to worry about was level design, textures and meshes, soundeffects/music and other similar things in order to release their game. Nowhere near the amount of effort required to actually MAKE a game from scratch. The engine is probably 70% of the work.

[cknives]

Its not from scratch though. I don't know if you have tried programming at all, but the guys who made counter strike barely had to do any programming. With the half life engine already in place, things like physics, interface, graphics rendering, audio rendering and game mechanics are already pre made for them, all they had to worry about was level design, textures and meshes, soundeffects/music and other similar things in order to release their game. Nowhere near the amount of effort required to actually MAKE a game from scratch. The engine is probably 70% of the work.

 

And warframes engine is from scratch?

 

Half the FPS games on steam are based on the Unreal TDK lol

Edited May 2, 2013 by cknives

[Bakim0n0]

Its not from scratch though. I don't know if you have tried programming at all, but the guys who made counter strike barely had to do any programming. With the half life engine already in place, things like physics, interface, graphics rendering, audio rendering and game mechanics are already pre made for them, all they had to worry about was level design, textures and meshes, soundeffects/music and other similar things in order to release their game. Nowhere near the amount of effort required to actually MAKE a game from scratch. The engine is probably 70% of the work.

I was actually directly referencing that the game came from very humble origins in terms of awareness and spread of it not the complexities of the project and effort to code. You're going from one very different approach of reasoning to another.

"This is getting ridiculous. I understand that games like LoL, DOTA, and TF2 also use a cash shop mechanic, but it is completely ignorant to put Warframe on the same playing field as any of those titles in terms of well, anything really. Marketing, exposure, playerbase, funding, dev team, everything. I mean come on. Blizzard? Valve? How can any of you really think that DE can produce on the same terms as studios like that?"

as a reminder to the context of where my comments came from.

[Bakim0n0]

"Marketing, exposure, playerbase, funding, dev team, everything"
-
Marketing? Steam. Youtube. Nuffsaid.

Funding? Established studio, working capital, impressive resume. Unlimited funding? Heck no! Workable? Obviously.

dev team? They have some experienced and talented staff.

Also, have *you* done any programming at all? Warframe wasn't entirely coded from nothing. I've never once said what the devs do is somehow easy or trivial, but compared to similar levels of innovation and available resources it's not as if some of the now big titles that games get compared to had drastically different opportunities. I hope nobody thinks I am trying to say the staff hasn't done a top notch job with this game (I have a badge under my name that displays this); I was only pointing out the serious flaw in that line of reasoning.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Bakim0n0

[Worira]

Yeah, Warframe was built on a pre-existing engine. The fact that DE were the ones who built that engine in the first place doesn't change that.

[vats3]

This is getting ridiculous. I understand that games like LoL, DOTA, and TF2 also use a cash shop mechanic, but it is completely ignorant to put Warframe on the same playing field as any of those titles in terms of well, anything really. Marketing, exposure, playerbase, funding, dev team, everything. I mean come on. Blizzard? Valve? How can any of you really think that DE can produce on the same terms as studios like that?

 

People here say "this game should use a paid cosmetic cash shop system like (insert above title) if they want to survive"

 

But that's stupid. Those games don't survive because of their cash shops. Their cash shops survive because of the games they are attached to. TF2 had a MASSIVE playerbase before its cash shop was even introduced, with all of its steam hype, preorder bonuses attached to other games, players from TF classic etc. That game is huge and successful and never even needed a cash shop to survive, that was simply icing on the cake.

 

LoL and DOTA not only have heavy hitter dev teams backing them, but they are associated with Major League Gaming, giving them an incredible amount of market exposure basically for free. People are jumping in to these games hoping to be the next pro regardless of the cash shop mechanics. That was never part of its appeal to bring people in, it simply makes the ride more entertaining once you're on it. Nobody ever looked at those games and said "I want to play that game because of it's well balanced payment model." It doesn't even need its cash shop once again in order to stay afloat as a result of what it has going for it already.

 

Warframe has no massive dev team. It doesn't have a huge marketing campaign. It is not a part of any E-sport program. It does not have a huge AAA budget backed by EA or Activision. A small amount of exposure and its rinky-dink cash shop is literally all it has going for it.

 

Acting like it can survive on the same cash shop principles as games that have the above stated is simply silly and ignorant. Those games would survive regardless of their cash shop. Warframe is the opposite. It doesn't have nearly the required playerbase to make a purely cosmetic cash shop work. Its simple economics. So seriously, think a bit before you go about making a statement like "Look at LoL's cash shop, no wonder it's so popular. Warframe should copy that."

while i typicality agree not comparing games is a good thing, alot said in here is wrong. first off we SHOULD be comparing this game to games like dota and LoL because they are nothing like they are now, they advanced and showed that from a concept that no one has ever heard of before became top titles and that warframe can do the same here is LoL beta game play 

 it looks nothing like now and hell this is what dota 1 started to look like by the end of its developing 

next you said that DE can not compare to valve and blizzard this just isent true, DE is not a company just be started up for warframe, that have worked on many other games and do have a good feel for the gaming industry 

 

next economy works off a system of what the consumer wants they get and you may say that non-paying players isent a consumer but if you keep the player interested they will soon spend there money, thats why F2P is now the big thing. Why should I spend 10$ a month on this when i could play this instead, yet some how i ended up spending more money on LoL and Mabinogi then i would have if i played WoW for the same amount of time. So if players want only cosmetic items in cash shop that will be how it will have to shift to.

 

On to TF2 yes there where players before the cash shop and they still made money, do you know how this is? because it used to cost money to play it, now its free, when it became free thats when it needed a cash shop, servers are not cheep. A cash shop is what keeps a game running, it may not be the most important part of gameplay but it is the most important part to developers because thats where the money is. 

 

The only reason DOTA and LOL have those things is because they have been out for along time, they as i have said many times earned there way to this point, warframe will have to as well accepting part of the community help on that is part of it as well  

 

next on the the dev team and backing, warframe actually has MUCH better backing then LoL, DOTA and TF2. DOTA was a mod to a game, made by very few people and had no backing. LoL was made by riot an Independent company with no backing again who had made no other games. TF2 was atfirst a retail game not an online f2p game so I'm not counting it as games you have to buy can do alot more easily. When looking at all this DE who worked on games much like this before are far more equiped then you are giving them credit for 

 

To say a game in beta would turn a profit from only selling cosmetics would be false, but that dosent mean its a bad thing, losing money in the start can lead to earning more in the long run if you gain loyal players. Everything is obtainable from the cash shop so many people looking for a short cut will always buy them that shouldent mean that the only way to obtain them should be thro real life means there are alot of people who would rather give up and stop playing then buy what ever it is that is plat only, while if they could have earned it they would have been incline to play longer and then possible spend money 

 

edit: here is another video that shows you the UI of LoL in beta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsALFGqpnys

Edited May 2, 2013 by vats3

[Mrblurr]

It does not have a huge AAA budget backed by EA or Activision.

 

THANK.GOD.

[_Bilko_]

Actually i did compare this to a AAA title........and Warframe came out on top.....hence the GM pack :)

[cknives]

Actually i did compare this to a AAA title........and Warframe came out on top.....hence the GM pack :)

 

Warframe beats the S#&$ out of any of those COD garbage games.

[WingsOfGryphin]

I just don't understand how someone who pays absolutely nothing thinks they deserve the same amount of game as someone who pays 50$ dollars for it.

 

Whats next? The only difference between a 5 star restaurant and a homeless soup kitchen should be the quality of the dining room? Food should be the same? What a joke.

That's the point of free to play model. 

If you think that free to play players shouldn't have a saying at all, then there isn't any point of this game being f2p. Just make a subscription game. 

Oh wait. How much people would actually pay for this game monthly? It's a fun game, but it's too small. 

Anyways, i don't agree that paying users should put themselves above everybody else. I like to address paying users in F2P as a donators, not content purchasers. 

Edited May 2, 2013 by WingsOfGryphin

[meatgravymush]

I think it's valid, because this game is AAA quality. Seriously, have you played the recently released NWN? That game, in terms of raw gameplay particularly combat, is a @(*()$ joke to this game.

 

People tend to forget that the dev team is indeed so small, since the quality of the game is that good. This game could EASILY go B2P with the cash shop kept as it is.. and you know what? I'd almost wager that people would still buy it en masse, because it's that good of a game.

 

The only game this one really ... sort of.. competes with is Defiance, but it's different: Instead of really good fluid TPS combat (I mean it's good, but not this good) it boasts an open world and vehicles. It still doesn't offer the depth of combat this one does, or offer the same kind of action. 

 

 

I think it's quite an achievement what they've made with so few people in comparison. So no, I disagree, let the AAA comparisons be made, because this title is AAA quality.

[Blatantfool]

I compare good games to good games. Bad games to bad ones. It is a matter of gameplay, not funding. If Warframe plays or has similarities to another game and they are part of a point or topic of discussion I'd bring it up.

 

A game doesn't need several million dollars in funding to be good. 

 

 Likewise, a game doesn't suddenly become good BECAUSE it has several million behind it (Like Medal of Honor.)

Edited May 2, 2013 by Blatantfool