Here's How We Remove Serration And (Attempt To) Balance The Game. Damage 2.5 (Designated Megathread)

[EloreRainbrought]

Solution 1:

make serration works like the potatoes, you remove serration as a mod but add it as a potato (orange) maybe?

It give the same rate of dmg increase at Max level of your weapon. Free up the spot for a new mod. I don't mind this potato worth 20 plats

[Ionus]

Balancing to anything is not what the anti serration crowd is trying to achieve.   Plus I never said jack about T4 wave 40.  I did misquote a bit on the DSD.  By wave 25 I don't decimate everything on the map.  Read my post above the last....where does it stop?  Where are we headed?  Finally pull the Tenno out of their warframes and go to using BB guns and Batons?  Stop trying to fix what isn't broken.  Serration IS what keeps everything level.  The fact that you ran Terminus 340 times and ranked a weapon to 30 shouldn't give you the same power as someone who truly put time in and worked at getting cores and credits and took that 10 slot card to the max.  Lets just make it simple....If you don't want to rely on Serration then don't...but don't change the way I play because you don't like it.  "You" do you and let me do me.

Serration and split chamber (and their equivalents) need to be axed because they're present on 100% of every weapon build. The mod system is their to promote diversity among weapons, but these mods are false choices, and work against that purpose.

There are NO other mods that are so inherently powerful that they are present on every effective mod loadout. People are crying doom when they believe the devs are idiots who will just remove serration and call it a day, when in fact they stressed that MANY things will need to change in order to accommodate their removal. The system as it is now is DEFINITELY broken no matter how you slice it.

Stop it with the "don't like it don't use it" argument. In the current system forgoing serration and split chamber for any other mods is NOT an option.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

This whole argument is just...well, wrong, for lack of a better word. You're focusing on all the wrong things, and blatantly disregarding what people are saying about the topic.

By all means if you have an argument go ahead an make it.  Mine is simple and no one can answer my question of where does it stop.  

[vaugahn]

By all means if you have an argument go ahead an make it.  Mine is simple and no one can answer my question of where does it stop.  

 

Don't be silly.

 

Here's where it stops: when the system works right.

 

Do you really, honestly think that they'll just take away damage forever and ever until we deal 1 damage per shot and die in 1 hit? Are you crazy? Do you think DE has never made a game before?

[(PSN)jwernecke]

Serration and split chamber (and their equivalents) need to be axed because they're present on 100% of every weapon build. The mod system is their to promote diversity among weapons, but these mods are false choices, and work against that purpose.

There are NO other mods that are so inherently powerful that they are present on every effective mod loadout. People are crying doom when they believe the devs are idiots who will just remove serration and call it a day, when in fact they stressed that MANY things will need to change in order to accommodate their removal. The system as it is now is DEFINITELY broken no matter how you slice it.

Stop it with the "don't like it don't use it" argument. In the current system forgoing serration and split chamber for any other mods is NOT an option.

As has been point made already.  When serration goes away something else will take its place.  That is the nature of a mod system.  Some mods are just always going to be better than others.  So we axe serration, and heavy caliber rises to the top when the masses find out that semi auto fire counteract the accuracy debuff.  So then we axe heavy caliber because it is "must have", pretty soon we are down to ammo drums and fast hands because they are the only thing left of value and they are the new "must have" mods.  So we axe them too.  Now we need to Remove the Mod UI because well there are no mods.  Because every time you take one away a new mod become the new "must have".  It is a paradox.  Those that can't see that are blind or foolish.

Edited January 19, 2015 by (PS4)jwernecke

[(PSN)jwernecke]

Don't be silly.

 

Here's where it stops: when the system works right.

 

Do you really, honestly think that they'll just take away damage forever and ever until we deal 1 damage per shot and die in 1 hit? Are you crazy? Do you think DE has never made a game before?

You are 100% incorrect in every thing you just posted.  I unlike you think that DE has already made a great game.  I see no reason to change what they have designed.

[vaugahn]

As has been point made already.  When serration goes away something else will take its place.  That is the nature of a mod system.  Some mods are just always going to be better than others.  So we axe serration, and heavy caliber rises to the top when the masses find out that semi auto fire counteract the accuracy debuff.  So then we axe heavy caliber because it is "must have", pretty soon we are down to ammo drums and fast hands because they are the only thing left of value and they are the new "must have" mods.  So we axe them too.  Now we need to Remove the Mod UI because well there are no mods.  Because every time you take one away a new mod become the new "must have".  It is a paradox.  Those that can't see that are blind or foolish.

 

You clearly do not get it. Please, think for a second.

 

There's a difference between mandatory and good. Good means a player could argue that another mod is better, like Ammo Drum vs. Fast Hands. Mandatory means nobody can argue, like Ammo Drum vs. Serration. There does not always have to be a best mod. That line of reasoning is pointless.

 

You are 100% incorrect in every thing you just posted.  I unlike you think that DE has already made a great game.  I see no reason to change what they have designed.

 

Care to tell me why I'm incorrect, or do you not have an actual response?

Edited January 19, 2015 by vaugahn

[(PSN)jwernecke]

What comes after the weapon mods?  Redirection? Vitality? Vigor? Intensify? Why are these not on the chopping block?  I don't personally use vitality but I sure see every time some noobie asks for help modding a frame it one of the first mods listed.  This can go on forever.  That is "our" side of this debate.  

[Taranis49]

No one's forcing you have serration on your weapon, that's your choice. Sure, you'll be missing damage but still, that's your choice

 

As said, that claim is bunk everytime it's made. Hell, even DE themselves don't deny it's required and that was near a year ago. It's not a coincidence newbies get a damaged one as part of the tutorial.

 

I've issued the challenge before: Go solo a 20 min/wave in T3/4 Defense (i.e. the places that are required to access all the game's content) without damage mods and tell me they're a "choice".

 

No, they're a requirement, just like most weapons needed to be AP/AI in Damage 1.0... hence the switch to 2.0.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

You clearly do not get it. Please, think for a second.

 

There's a difference between mandatory and good. Good means a player could argue that another mod is better, like Ammo Drum vs. Fast Hands. Mandatory means nobody can argue, like Ammo Drum vs. Serration. There does not always have to be a best mod. That line of reasoning is pointless.

 

 

 

Care to tell me why I'm incorrect, or do you not have an actual response?

If you cared to finish reading what I posted prior to typing you would see that I already have.  But for clarity I will specify again.  " I unlike you think that DE has already made a great game.  I see no reason to change what they have designed."

 

The point to the mods is once you remove serration something else will be the new "mandatory" mod.  When that happens you will want it gone, then the next, and the next until we don't have mods anymore.  Maybe Warframe just isn't your style of game?  It is perfectly okay to not like an aspect or even the entire game.  Trying to change the entire structure of the game over 1 mod is down right stupid.  You want the devs to turn around after 2+ years now and completely redesign the entire (free to play) game?  There are games out there like COD that I just don't like.  You won't find me in their forums trying to change the very essence of their game because clearly tens of thousands of people like it the way it is.

Edited January 19, 2015 by (PS4)jwernecke

[Ionus]

As has been point made already.  When serration goes away something else will take its place.  That is the nature of a mod system.  Some mods are just always going to be better than others.  So we axe serration, and heavy caliber rises to the top when the masses find out that semi auto fire counteract the accuracy debuff.  So then we axe heavy caliber because it is "must have", pretty soon we are down to ammo drums and fast hands because they are the only thing left of value and they are the new "must have" mods.  So we axe them too.  Now we need to Remove the Mod UI because well there are no mods.  Because every time you take one away a new mod become the new "must have".  It is a paradox.  Those that can't see that are blind or foolish.

Except heavy caliber is.t use able on every single weapon. It is absolutely horrendous on bows, for example. It has a DRAWBACK.

Ammo drum and fast hands aren't inherently amazing enough to warrent them to be used on an optimum build, unlike serration and split chamber.

For example, you wouldn't likely put ammo drum on a latron prime, because it's so damn ammo efficient. You would, however, put it on a grakata because that thing eats ammo. In either case you could put it on either because it's your choice.

The whole "staple mod cycle" isn't going to happen.

[Ionus]

If you cared to finish reading what I posted prior to tying you would see that I already have.  But for clarity I will specify again.  " I unlike you think that DE has already made a great game.  I see no reason to change what they have designed."

Just because you refuse to see broken mechanics doesn't mean the problem isn't there. Kissing their arse even after they publicly stated that there is a problem won't change anything.

[vaugahn]

If you cared to finish reading what I posted prior to tying you would see that I already have.  But for clarity I will specify again.  " I unlike you think that DE has already made a great game.  I see no reason to change what they have designed."

 

So...you think the game is perfect? Really? Haven't I seen you post suggestions for changes before?

 

You cannot deny that Serration is broken. Even the devs acknowledge it goes against the intent of damage/mods 2.0.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

"If I'm not using an entire clip to kill one enemy, the game is too easy and bullS#&$! DE, nerf it!"

This proves you didn't understand.

[PureMalice]

I'd say they're just going to bring the weapons up to the current standards most players use as base damage, basically just about everyone uses the base damage boost mods, its pretty much a staple, now on weapons there's no real reason for it to be that way when the overall damage on the weapons can just be boosted to match the player base standard, and frees up a slot to further alter the weapon as the system was intended.

From what I gather DE doesn't want a mod or mod type to be ESSENTIAL to play the game, and Serration and mods of its ilk have become just that, the basic forms at least, stuff like blaze, or multipurpose mods that boost damage are a differing story, but just barely, due to having extra effects & penalties.

The path of least resistance & downsides would be to just boost the weapons base damage to in the end at 30 HAVE the damage boost granted as if it had a max serration mod, thereby freeing up the weapon for further modding towards the players taste, and not out of necessity.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

So...you think the game is perfect? Really? Haven't I seen you post suggestions for changes before?

 

You cannot deny that Serration is broken. Even the devs acknowledge it goes against the intent of damage/mods 2.0.

Nope.  You've seen me post ideas for additions to the game, or reporting bugs and helping new players.  About the only thing I've ever said about taking something out was the dancing bs.  Even then I never asked for it to actually be removed.  Just give me the option to not have it show up on my screen.

 

Why is it broken?  Because you say it is?  Fine Malicious Raptor is broken, High Noon.....broken, They are "essential" mods.  It doesn't matter how hard you try making the point that every weapon uses it makes it broken is not valid.  Again if you don't like this game go find another.  It's okay.  DE didn't create this game with the delusion that it would please 100% of the worlds population.   

Edited January 19, 2015 by (PS4)jwernecke

[vaugahn]

Nope.  You've seen me post ideas for additions to the game, or reporting bugs and helping new players.  About the only thing I've ever said about taking something out was the dancing bs.  Even then I never asked for it to actually be removed.  Just give me the option to not have it show up on my screen.

 

So you actually do think the game is fine as is? Are we playing the same Warframe?

[Ishki88]

Ok you guys...............need to chill.............out.............with these suggestion threads........let DE cook man 

[Chaosyn]

So I have to give up Platinum( in the future) to make my weapon as effective as it is right now? No. Charging money is NOT the option.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

So you actually do think the game is fine as is? Are we playing the same Warframe?

I think this game has room for improvement/expansion, I think that this game has bugs that need addressed, I however do not think that the Serration card is anywhere near the top of the to do list.  

[Ionus]

Ok you guys...............need to chill.............out.............with these suggestion threads........let DE cook man

"Too many cooks, too many cooks, too many cooks, too many cOOoooks...."

[(PSN)jwernecke]

I'm off to bed we will pick this back up tomorrow after I get off of work.  You all.....yes including you vaughn have a great night.  Real debates are my favorite.....

[jfhsanseiIII]

If it involves smarter and more inventive ways to mod/alter our weapon's performance I wouldn't be sad at all. It could be the beginning of making the majority of weapons viable beyond the map and into void's and those future raids we heard about. Losing something and gaining more interesting/better functionality is rarely bad. Losing it 'just because' would be dumb though. However, DE said that if they were to drop Serration, it would be for the former and not the later. There are a bevy of really cool fun guns out there, but I never use them because they just don't perform well enough. If they can alter damage and modifiers in a way to remove power creep then that would be possible.

[mooser6]

The problem dividing the two sides is this:

Removing damage mods could be good IF there were enough other viable utility mods to allow for creative builds. The current utility mods are not all that enticing to use nor do they offer much diversity in building weapons.

So in a sense, both sides are right. Damage mods are boring but there isn't enough variety to make removing them worthwhile.

We need the focus system and we need DE to imagine some ways that weapons can all/mostly serve some very unique roles.

In our current world you pick crit, status, or straight damage. Not much variety and not much to really set all the many weapons apart.

[Sidathe]

So multi shot isnt going to take its place as being mandatory? really ypu believe that also as i have syated before almost all mobas or mmos have equipment that is pretty much mandoatory this isnt some new problem that popped up in this game it is a ncessary evil I don't get why this community is all up in arms about it lately

I thought Multishot mods were already mandatory as well...I must be getting senile.