Why The Grakata Is Underpowered And Not Worth Buying.

[scaleblue]

This gun is clearly underpowered, the dual vipers, or gorgon both completely out preform the Grakata.

Grakata:
2.6 Grakata bullets equal the damage of one gorgon.
Which means 22.5 gorgon bullets do as much damage as the Grakata's entire clip.

In most games why SMGs are so good is because of the mobility.

Heavy weapons are normally movement impeding, but the gorgon isn't .

The Grakata doesn't have any noticeable mobility difference and so there isn't almost any reason to choose it.


The Gorgon's wind up time doesn't make up for the Grakata's weak power.



Gorgon base damage: 24
Grakata base damage: 9
Grakata is 1/4 the power of the gorgon.


For every second the gorgon does 300 and does 2160 per clip.
The Grakata does 180 per second and empties in 3 seconds and does base 540 per clip.






Wind up:
So the gorgon in wind up time has to shoot 7 bullets, in the time it takes the keep up with the Grakata's 180 damage per second.

Which it does and easily.

Every gorgon shot is equal too 2.677 of one Grakata's. so the Grakata must shoot about 2.6x then the gorgon faster to keep up with the gorgon.

which the Grakata doesn't shoot that fast.

Once you get past the wind up time(that still deals out damage faster then the Grakata), the gorgon is 67% better then the the Grakata.

The wind up time deals high damage and give you time to get  headshots AND pause if they die in 1-3 shots.
and deals more DPS even at its slow fire rate





Ammo wasting:

When you kill an enemy with the Grakata, the enemy will stand still then fall and sometimes get knock backed slightly.

When someone dies by the gorgon, they are thrown back quite a bit, which allows you to easily know when to stop shooting, unlike the Grakata.

The Grakata also has such high fire rate, that by the time you stop shooting you will have most likely shot many extra bullets into a dead enemy.

Both of the above^ cause you to waste ammo with it.



Total damage
Base ammo of the gorgon is 500 (24 x 500)
Base ammo of the Grakata is 540 (9 x 540)
So
Gorgon is 12000 total damage.
and the Grakata is 4860 total damage


The base critical chance with the Grakata is 7.5 ( according to the wiki)

Which means that 7.5 out of 100 deal 200% damage or equal to being shot twice.

Which is equal to having built in 7.5% multi-shot which means you get 4.5 bullets per 60 shots.






How mods effect these stats.

Rifle Fire rate mod
20 fire rate for the Grakata  and A fully maxed out fire rate mod which is 60% is 32

Grakata 32 x 9 = 288 per second.
Gorgon and same above ^
(12.5 + 60%) x 24 = 480 per second.


Grakata 288 per second.
Gorgon  480 per second.

Gorgon wins.



Critical mods.
During the live stream the guy said the best mods for the Grakata were critical mods.
So critical chance being 7.5 base + maxed out critical chance mod being 150% is
Which 18.75% is equal too 11.25 bullets dealing critical damage out of 60 in the clip.

Criticals with only the Grakata deal double damage, and is equal too 2 bullets hitting you or a multi-shot.
Having a critical chance mod fully maxed out on the Grakata is equal too having 18.75% multi-shot

Having a critical damage mod maxed out fully is 120% more damage from criticals. which is equal to 1.2 more damage or 1.2 more bullets for every critical.
so 1.2 x 5.33 is 11.726 extra bullets out of out of 60 shots.
which is 1/6 or 19% multi-shot.

Grakata base multi-shot is 4.5 more bullets per clip.
With maxed crit chance mod its 11.25 extra bullet per clip.
with a fully maxed critical damage mode you have 24.75 more bullets per clip.
which means ever clip you deal 216 more damage.
24.75 more bullets is equal too 40% multi-shot.

Two maxed out recommended mods being equal too only 40% multi-shot.
the gun gains 40% more damage per second
Which is not even equal too or above to the base DPS of the gorgon.






Serration:
A maxed out serration mod increases the damage of the Grakata by 165%
Which means you have 60 + 165% more bullets per clip.
which is equal too 159 bullets per clip.

Grakata 477 per second and 1431 total damage per clip.

Gorgon 1060 per second and 5724 total damage

165% more damage is equal too shooting 165% more damage per shot.
or 165% more bullet per shot.
or 165% multi-shot. making serration the most effective mod in the game.





Multi-shot:
Maxes out at 90%
So two maxed out critical chance mods are nearly half as effective as one maxed out multi-shot


Unlike the guy claiming that the best mods for the current Grakata were critical mods.
If they boosted the critical chance of the Grakata too 30 %
it would be
30%+ 150% = 75% equal to 75% multi-shot.
The critical chance mod is STILL NOT equal too 90% multi-shots power.



Reload speed:
The Grakata has 2.3 second reload time.
The gorgon has 4.2 time per clip.
Each clip deals 540 damage (9x60) .
Each clip of the gorgon deals 2160 (24x90)

So 1 fourth of the gorgons clip is equal too a full Grakata clip.
Which means you reload 4 times to shoot as much damage as one gorgon.
which is 9.2 reload time(2.3 x 4).
The gorgon has 4.2 time per clip.
so again the Grakata loses.




The Grakata is very underpowered as you can sea by all the information above.^


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When is the base Grakata more effective then the gorgon:

When you are reloading and a monster is beating on you, and you cant reload because you need 4.2 seconds instead of 2.3. (Even though that monster would be most likely dead if you were using the gorgon)



how can the Grakata fun.
With maxed multi-shot and maxed fire rate mod you can flood them with extremely weak bullets.

Besides the rare once every 30+ missions, the Grakata will be enormously ineffective even with mods.

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The Grakata gun needs a buff.
I would say a portability buff that increases your movement speed AND damage buff.

The Grakata is equal too a .22 lead submachine gun(heavy and weak)
The gorgon is equal too a .35 light machine gun.( light and powerful)


In general all guns.
All guns in this game need and accuracy increase and recoil increase.
The sniper isn't powerful enough at all. and needs at least a 50 damage buff.
The gorgon needs an accuracy increase, recoil increase. and a movement speed decrease.

I would love to grab a sniper get hidden and snipe heads for 1HKOEs with a very powerful rifle. Instead of standing in the small open areas, shooting multiple shots in their heads, and them shooting me back.

Obviously the Snipetron gun needs too be silent, and there needs to be much much larger open space defense missions.

Edited May 3, 2013 by scaleblue

[Depar]

on paper always everthing looks so op/up,

the thing is this is not a game like wow,aion or something like that.

where you can nearly perfect calculate you min~max dps on paper

you can calculate as long as you want ingame it will be diffrent.

on paper snipetron is the strongest weapon of them all!

the reality shows us, nope the most would prefer the default braton over it

Edited May 3, 2013 by Depar

[griever102]

I think you forgot about certain factors like luck and aiming skill. I'm almost sure that you're not gonna hit 100% of the gorgon's shots same for the grakata, but in the end it's all about having fun with the kind of weapons they like, and mods allow you to adapt any weapon to any situation, I got lvl 30 afuris nonSC and I can kill pluto mobs just fine and it's pretty fun, and the afuris isn't that deadly of a weapon either. :)

[Depar]

I think you forgot about certain factors like luck and aiming skill. I'm almost sure that you're not gonna hit 100% of the gorgon's shots same for the grakata, but in the end it's all about having fun with the kind of weapons they like, and mods allow you to adapt any weapon to any situation, I got lvl 30 afuris nonSC and I can kill pluto mobs just fine and it's pretty fun, and the afuris isn't that deadly of a weapon either. :)

afuris is one of my favour's

hornet strike,multishot,convulsion and armorpirce good to go x3

 

and yes thinking of hitting with the gorgon to 100% since the last patch ... yeah, nope

[kaizoku222]

On paper the snipetron is really weak. In game the snipetron is really weak. In a game like this where it is easy to aim and position comparing maximum possible dps values for guns is actually a viable way to assess balance. Different guns need to fill different roles, utilities, or playstyles in order to not be tossed aside in favor of whatever gun happens to kill things the best. The Grakata doesn't fill in any gaps in the arsenal, everything it does something else does better, the only thing that stands out about it is the fire rate and crit rate, both of which are pointless as explained below.

Mods are part of the problem, if mods synergized better with certain weapons types (high/low fire rate, high/low damage per bullet, high/low crit chance, etc) then I doubt this would be as much of a problem. But the Grakata's higher crit rate means nothing when crit and crit damage mods are in such a bad place right now, and when mods are so generic to begin with. As is, if you want the best out of *any* weapon in the game, you slot damage % first, then multishot, then elemental damage, and by then you have 5 power points to slot something else.

Fixing mods and making them more niche/effective will help underused/underpowered weapons like this and I would rather see that worked on first.

Edited May 3, 2013 by kaizoku222

[Vaskadar]

The Gorgon is incredibly inaccurate. I can snipe enemies by bursting the Grakata. Accuracy/range is a huge difference and something to consider.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Vaskadar

[kaizoku222]

The Gorgon is incredibly inaccurate. I can snipe enemies by bursting the Grakata. Accuracy/range is a huge difference.

 

When are you sniping anything? 95% of this game is mid to short range.

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Good breakdown, and yea, i'd have to agree the Grakata is an inferior weapon. not useless, but definitely not the best.

 

However, just have to say you messed up your to/too's a lot and other little grammar stuff. It detracts a bit from the otherwise very good information there.

[Renan.Ruivo]

I think you forgot about certain factors like luck and aiming skill. I'm almost sure that you're not gonna hit 100% of the gorgon's shots same for the grakata, but in the end it's all about having fun with the kind of weapons they like, and mods allow you to adapt any weapon to any situation, I got lvl 30 afuris nonSC and I can kill pluto mobs just fine and it's pretty fun, and the afuris isn't that deadly of a weapon either. :)

 

Same for my Bronco.

[MoustacheMike]

When are you sniping anything? 95% of this game is mid to short range.

probably in defense mission

[AltairRoy]

To be honest, it is our opinion. Grakata is very good with crit chance, serration, crit dmg, magazine size, armor penetration and lastly the multi shot

it effective to grineer and corpus, since i have a good computer i can just click once and will shoot 7-10 bullets to the head

 

while Gorgon is very uneffective, it good for infested bosses whilst the wind up time for it, just the damage isnt that true

 

To my opinion Grakata, Kraken,and Jaw sword is my farming tools

[Nuntium]

Besides, if you don't want to use it, don't buy it. This isn't a PvP game and as such not every weapon needs to be perfectly balanced.

[Dasmir]

Becouse people complain is fine and if you ask for buff you are going to get bashed like the other threads about the grakata jizzzzzzzzzzz.

 

Grakata with only +1 in damage can easy outdamage the dps of other rifles (since its a SMG) WITH ONLY 1 DAMAGE POINT !, but a comparasion with the gorgon is kinda silly

 

SMG =/= LMG.

[scaleblue]

No. the grakata has worse accuracy then the gorgon.  And I dont miss with the gorgon I dont understand people saying the gun misses alot.
In other games the recoil and spread is MUCH MUCH higher for MGs so in this game it should be easy, and it is for me.

[ViciousCrux]

Got a question:

 

Let me preface a bit first...I'm currently trying to level up a Gorgon and its going very slowly.  It's only Rank 8 atm and I can just put either a Serration or a Armor Pierce mod on it to augment the damage which is my main concern with it as there's nothing one can do about the accuracy.  I find it to be a chore to spin it up and kill a group of enemies with its current low damage and bullet spraying so I'm not having a lot of fun with it.  I'm going to keep at it as I've been told numerous times it becomes viable later on when modded properly.  I forsee the same problem with the Grakata (the next primary I'm planning on working on) only its going to be even worse with the low damage.

 

Basically what I want to know is does the Grakata spray as much as the Gorgon or can you be fairly accurate with it?

[scaleblue]

People who are bored and want to go insult someone should go on another forum.
Because I spent hours proving in every detail how bad the Grakata is and then you come here and say
"Gun no suck, you stupid, I play and it fun"
So please leave my thread or actually read it instead of TL;DR fools
You guys cant come up with one factual post.
 

[scaleblue]

The Grakata

 

Got a question:

 

Let me preface a bit first...I'm currently trying to level up a Gorgon and its going very slowly.  It's only Rank 8 atm and I can just put either a Serration or a Armor Pierce mod on it to augment the damage which is my main concern with it as there's nothing one can do about the accuracy.  I find it to be a chore to spin it up and kill a group of enemies with its current low damage and bullet spraying so I'm not having a lot of fun with it.  I'm going to keep at it as I've been told numerous times it becomes viable later on when modded properly.  I forsee the same problem with the Grakata (the next primary I'm planning on working on) only its going to be even worse with the low damage.

 

Basically what I want to know is does the Grakata spray as much as the Gorgon or can you be fairly accurate with it?

The Grakata has worse accuracy then the gorgon. People who wants facts check the wiki, and thats why majority of the posts on the wiki page are all stating how underpowered the SMG is.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Grakata

The wiki has incorrect information on the Grakata's accuracy though.

If you want to have your Grakata be useful then you need damage mods, fire rate mode help you waste ammo quicker, but damage mods make each bullet more effective.
And when ever you fight a type of people use the effective mode, like fire vs infested, armor piecing for grineer, Electric for Corpus, and ice is always good.
So switch before the mission.

Multishot mods if you have them.
Only use critical and other mods too fill in the 1 extra point you have left over.
Its best to sell all your critical type mods as they are nearly completly useless at the moment.
(later they might buff the critical chance on guns)
And use that cash you earned to upgrade you rrifle damage mods REALLY HIGH.

The gorgon has really normal accuracy, i agree it should be more, but every gun in this game has bad accuracy even the sniper.

Edited May 3, 2013 by scaleblue

[Depar]

no insult but if we 2 are going now to i dont know phroid or jackel would you really think one of the guns even reach near what you calculated?

Dont misunderstand me, i love theorycrafting on my own and i used to do it for hours to have an exact min~max value i can count of, but i dont do it on a shooter where everthing is sized for the moment you pull the trigger/click your mousebutton.

 

i understand it that it fills you with anger, when your hard work get no, in your opinion "real critic"

but face it, you cant trust this numbers even a bit. sry

[scaleblue]

no insult but if we 2 are going now to i dont know phroid or jackel would you really think one of the guns even reach near what you calculated?

Dont misunderstand me, i love theorycrafting on my own and i used to do it for hours to have an exact min~max value i can count of, but i dont do it on a shooter where everthing is sized for the moment you pull the trigger/click your mousebutton.

 

i understand it that it fills you with anger, when your hard work get no, in your opinion "real critic"

but face it, you cant trust this numbers even a bit. sry

 

Besides the bad grammer, you post still doesnt make any sense.

If its base numbers you want check the wiki.

Little kids need to go play another game.

Edited May 3, 2013 by scaleblue

[9volt]

People who are bored and want to go insult someone should go on another forum.

Because I spent hours proving in every detail how bad the Grakata is and then you come here and say

"Gun no suck, you stupid, I play and it fun"

So please leave my thread or actually read it instead of TL;DR fools

You guys cant come up with one factual post.

 

 

I read your original post, line for line.

 

A pure mathematical break down means $&*^ ...because it does not account for player tactics!

 

Want a simple example?

 

Fragor ground slam + freeze mod = every enemy in the vicinity is now laying belly up with all their vital bits just begging to be shot.

Edited May 3, 2013 by 9volt

[scaleblue]

I read you original post, line for line.

 

A pure mathematical break down means $&*^ ...because it does not account for player tactics!

 

Want a simple example?

 

Fragor ground slam + freeze mod = every enemy in the vicinity is now laying belly up with all their vital bits just begging to be shot.

hahahaha   

I bought the fragor recently, and its pretty fun.

[Depar]

Besides the bad grammer, you post still doesnt make any sense.

If its base numbers you want check the wiki.

Little kids need to go play another game.

 

 

Sry for not being born in a country where english is the native language,

and beside the age you are 1 year older so far, not mention you rude and smug appearence . .(ups)

and im not sayin the base numbers arent correct, im sayin at the end of the day you cant just stand there and predict a 100% accuracy in a shooter

Edited May 3, 2013 by Depar

[neKroMancer]

Well, it's just a case of preference vs statistic.

I dislike the Gorgon purely because of aesthetic. It doesn't fit Tenno at all and I refuse to use it even when I know that it has better stat. However, somehow Grakata feels right for me and it get the job done in a pinch without windup time which may cause you one life waiting for Gorgon to deal full damage.

[scaleblue]

Well, it's just a case of preference vs statistic.

I dislike the Gorgon purely because of aesthetic. It doesn't fit Tenno at all and I refuse to use it even when I know that it has better stat. However, somehow Grakata feels right for me and it get the job done in a pinch without windup time which may cause you one life waiting for Gorgon to deal full damage.

I re-read your post and saw you said ment something else.

Sorry for that.

And about the wind up time, if you read my post you would sea, that i said that the wind up time STILL deals DPS quicker then the Grakata

There is 99.9999% in no way the Grakata is more effective then the Gorgon.

I dislike repeating myself because people dont read, I even named a section "Wind up time"

I also think the Gorgon doesnt match the Warframes, but I dont think it is even a warframe weapon i think its a weapon another race uses and I just own it currently. in many games i agree with the idea that some guns are better and i still use the sucky  better looking guns.  

And I am Not saying "DONT BUY IT!!!" Im saying its underpowered and not worth buying.

but I even made a section saying how the gun is fun.

Edited May 3, 2013 by scaleblue

[Nuntium]

WOW I just proved in every single way that the Grakata is worse then the Gorgon. and you want to say its preference. Please leave.

 

Well yeah, he said that he personally prefers the Grakata, just because of its looks/feel, even though he knows that it is statistically inferior, is there a problem with that?