PvP?

[Sendrik]

I just tryed the game and want to say:its amazing.

But theres something that bothers me.

The pve is fine and all(though the enemies should not see you so easily so that it gives you more of a splinter cell feeling^^)but i think there should also be some pvp.

I know that the game focuses on pve but some pvp could be fine for a lot of players too.

Since the game is very special i think the pvp should be too.

I have somethig in mind thats far beyond simple DM or TDM matches.

Why we dont transfer parts of the pve aspect to the pvp aspect?

I mean a pvp mode where you need to achieve different goals like fixing a elevator or some stuff like that,while the other team needs to do the same,or similiar stuff while searching for enemie players.also we could keep the mob aspect in the pvp mode aswell.

Think of it like dynasty warriors.

You and your team get some mechs or other companions that help you with the mission.

They die very easily but thats ok because they should just be a small help.

If we combine all this,we have a pvp mode that needs a lot of teamplay,strategic skill,fast reflexes and other things.

It would not just be a simple:shot it if its moving and has a red name above it.

Please tell me what you think of it and is there a pvp mode planned at all?

Edited January 9, 2013 by Sendrik

[Ced23Ric]

No.

This topic has been exhausted I'm afraid...lots of PvP threads already. Locking down, post in any of the others that aren't locked, please.

That was the last response to a PvP thread about 30 minutes ago. It got locked.

No.

Digital Extremes said, they will concentrate on PvE and maybe explore PvP as deep as Borderlands 2 did - with tiny duels between two players, for fun. Prior topics have been locked down because they got out of hand, and people don't seem to understand that adding PvP to the game will a) take away from the ressources to build PvE, b) will require tons and tons of balancing (there is no frame that is even slightly balanced) and c) Warframe is a coop game, not a competitive shooter.

Sorry guys, I know you feel strongly about this, but this is not the game you are looking for. Many people enjoy dungeon crawlers. Look at the Diablo series, Torchlight, Sacred, etc. - those people will play Warframe. This is not another Free2Play Shooter, like WarRock, or ArcticCombat or whatever it's called. If you don't find enjoyment in dungoen crawls, this may not be the game for you.

No PvP needed for Warframe, and as DESteve said, Digital Extremes rather develops one good game than two mediocre ones.

[Khalifa]

I agree no PvP is needed, I somehow feel it wouldn't work with how things are - With the abilities each Warframe has and all..

Just stick to PvE, having a few friends on mic or even better playing right beside you could make the game just that much more fun.

[Sendrik]

But if there are so much threads about it,maybe it IS needed?

I mean pve is nice and all and i enjoy it a lot to make tactics with my team but theres a point where i want to test myself against others.

I would also be happy with small 2vs2 battles or similiar stuff...i just thought my idea would suit the game=/

This game is very good and i would find it very sad if i would stop playing it because theres no pvp.

This IS the game for me.

The setting,the movements,the weapons,the maps...i like all that.

its just that after some hours of pve i want to have a break from that doing some pvp.

Well wizardry online is a dungeon crawler too and i like it.

Please think of the pvp...its not like you lose anything in pvp.

You can just avoid it if you dont like it but for other people it will be awesome.

Maybe make a own leaderboard just for pve and one for pvp so that you are not forced to do pvp to be under the best players at the leaderboard?

Edited January 9, 2013 by Sendrik

[Maratropa]

But if there are so much threads about it,maybe it IS needed?

Vocal minority.

[Afinda]

PvP often can ruin games. Especially if they're built without PvP in mind in the first place. Far too much re-balancing that can ruin the Funfactor of games in mere seconds.

PvE games win because there basicly is no need to "nerf" chars for any reason. They can be OP after you grinded for thousands of hours to acquire that wanted piece of gear :P

TLDR: PvP = re-balancing = nerfing = whining = fail.

[Ced23Ric]

But if there are so much threads about it,maybe it IS needed?

Democracy is the rulership of the mediocre. Think about how stupid the average person is, and now remember that half of all people are dumber than that.

Regardless whether it is explained from an economical standpoint;

PvP requires constant supervision, balancing, high-performance servers, anti-cheat systems, logs, nerfs, community management and completely new and different maps. This binds a lot of financial resources, manpower and overall effort of a given company, staunching development of the PvE aspect and, most importantly, the progression of the game itself.

balancing standpoint;

None of the frames are balanced. They have insta-kill abilities that go through walls, behind cover, around corners, stretch over entire maps, and they also have stuns that cannot be broken, invisibility that cannot be detected, movement alterations and similar stuff. The gear is not balanced. The mods are not balanced. All this would require extensive rewrites.

or the simple "vision" standpoint;

Digital Extremes tried to make this game before, but got shanked by the publishers, so they had to make a game they weren't intending to make. Now, here is their next attempt. There is a vision for Warframe, mkaking it a cooperative four-player party dungeon crawling third person shooter. PvP is not part of that vision.

, some people will come here and repeat things that don't apply or are fallacies. This game doesn't need PvP to survive - it is not for PvP players. And there's tons of other players out there. Cooperative players. There is a boatload of PvP games for those people to play, this doesn't need to be another one.

If you did not like Diablo/Diablo Hellfire/Diablo 2, then this game right here may not be for you. If you don't like Mass Effect 3's Horde mode, this game may not be for you. If you didn't like Serious Sam multiplayer coop, this game may not be for you. This is not a PvP game. It has no basis for it, it has no time for it, and it doesn't need it.

[Marvyra85]

PvP isn't needed in every game to be honest. The game is fine as it is! There's already plenty of PvP games out there, go pick one! ;)

[Sendrik]

well,anyone is free to choose whatever frame they want,and if i choose a frame thats more designed for pve then pvp its my own problem and yes,most pve games dont have that hard problems with balancing but they have other problems like fixing ai and similiar stuff.

And keeping the players busy of course,because there is no pvp to keep them going after every mission is done so they need somethign else.

Also,theres no thrill.

Ok i need to say that in another way:its not the same thrill like it would be in pvp.

I for myself,have a lot of fun talking with my enemies,trying to think how my opponent would think in that situation,sharing tactics.

i mean,in most shooters are snipers,and,,the-front-dudes''and what not...and there is not much need for balance usually.

Ofcourse,like someone allready mentioned,warframe is not just another shooter where you shoot around you and thats it.

And thats a good thing.

But pvp is a exciting feature,and waframe is mostly skill based.

If you suck at aiming,your abilities are not worth much.

Comparing yourself to others regarding abilities is just natural...think of olympics,football and the other stuff.

I cant share your experience with pvp afinda.

Sure,in most mmorpgs like wow(i hate that game btw)its more needed than in a shooter.

But i didnt have much problems with balancing.

I had a lot of fun doing pvp so far.

The solution to avoid balancing issuses(even if i think balancing issuses are very common,even in very succesful games)would be,like someone else already suggested,to turn all abilites off for pvp.

It would hurt me but if the bigger part of the community wants it,so be it.

So it would just be you,your enemy,your guns and cold steel.

EDIT:well...i liked serious sam in multiplayer mode.

But i hate diablo.

I dont like that view from above if its not part of a retro game.

Yes there are a lot of pvp games.

But most of them suck.

Because they are so simple...shoot something,most times also too realistic.

This game is not realistic and its not focusing just on shooting stuff and thats why i like it so much.

This game may not need pvp to survive but it would be a nice feature.

How would pvp destroy the game if you would never need to do pvp?

Edited January 9, 2013 by Sendrik

[Ced23Ric]

See, if you would have read what I wrote, I would enjoy this conversation. But the good thing is, since you did not read what I wrote, I also know that I don't have to continue posting in here. Because you, in all actuality, don't want to know why there is no PvP, you want PvP in this game, regardless of reasons against it.

That makes any debate on the issue pointless. As soon as you read what I wrote and understand, we can continue. :)

[volsfan09]

Will pvp ever make it into this game?? just a maybe would be good enough for me. I just know out of all games ive ever played, pvp will vastly increase the life of this game. a 4v4 wouldnt be bad!

[Sendrik]

i was reading it...after my post,because you posted the text while i was writing my message.

Thats why i made a edit^^

Anyway...it would just need to be balanced the same way other games did.

Its not like balancing in pvp is a rare thing this days.

If they really have no room for pvp in ther vision and it means so much to them,i respect that.

It was just a suggestion i posted...if the devs like that idea or not is up to them.

Its ther game after all.

I also asked how it stands with pvp,if there is pvp planned.

If i would get a official answer about the pvp i would not need to suggest ideas regarding pvp at all.

Sure i want to know what speaks against pvp.

I think most people here dont like pvp,but if it would be in the game the devs would make many people happy.

Im not planning on doing pvp in warframe all the time...just once in a while.

And as i said,locking the abilities for pvp would be a very easy solution.

[Sendrik]

asking me that too...hope the pvp will make it.

[Ced23Ric]

This is getting ridiculous. There is a topic literally three posts down. Reported for merging.

[[DE]jaywalker]

merged.

[Ced23Ric]

i was reading it...after my post,because you posted the text while i was writing my message.

Thats why i made a edit^^

Anyway...it would just need to be balanced the same way other games did.

Its not like balancing in pvp is a rare thing this days.

If they really have no room for pvp in ther vision and it means so much to them,i respect that.

It was just a suggestion i posted...if the devs like that idea or not is up to them.

Its ther game after all.

I also asked how it stands with pvp,if there is pvp planned.

If i would get a official answer about the pvp i would not need to suggest ideas regarding pvp at all.

Sure i want to know what speaks against pvp.

I think most people here dont like pvp,but if it would be in the game the devs would make many people happy.

Im not planning on doing pvp in warframe all the time...just once in a while.

And as i said,locking the abilities for pvp would be a very easy solution.

Okay, because you misunderstood me, I'll make it simpler. :)

PvP means PvE and the entire game suffers. PvP means, Digital Extremes needs a lot more money and time. Balancing is a nightmare, and not easy, and cannot be "just" done. There is no PvP planned, beyond a "maybe" on Borderlands-style duels. And no, locking abilities is not an easy solution, it's a crutch. And no one wants to play a game on crutches.

If you didn't like Diablo ... Warframe is just like Diablo. Randomized levels, collecting gold and items, fighting bosses in their lairs, progressing to the next layer. It's just a different perspective. If you didn't think Diablo's endless grind was fun, to play with buddies, then this isn't the game for you. Sorry mate, you may have been misled by the guns, but ... where is the difference between a pistol and a crossbow, a rifle and a bow, a sniper and a javelin? Catch my drift? It's a dungeon crawler.

[Mezecs]

Okay, because you misunderstood me, I'll make it simpler. :)

PvP means PvE and the entire game suffers. PvP means, Digital Extremes needs a lot more money and time. Balancing is a nightmare, and not easy, and cannot be "just" done. There is no PvP planned, beyond a "maybe" on Borderlands-style duels. And no, locking abilities is not an easy solution, it's a crutch. And no one wants to play a game on crutches.

If you didn't like Diablo ... Warframe is just like Diablo. Randomized levels, collecting gold and items, fighting bosses in their lairs, progressing to the next layer. It's just a different perspective. If you didn't think Diablo's endless grind was fun, to play with buddies, then this isn't the game for you. Sorry mate, you may have been misled by the guns, but ... where is the difference between a pistol and a crossbow, a rifle and a bow, a sniper and a javelin? Catch my drift? It's a dungeon crawler.

The difference is that Diablo's item system is a lot more complex. You have different armours (helmet, chest, legs, etc.) and varied stats on each item. Also, each time you level up in Diablo you gain stat points, even if you dont find any phat lewts you still gain some (meaningfull) XP.

[Sendrik]

Now it seems that you are not the one that was reading what i wrote;)

Actually im a big fantasy fan...i just dislike diablo for that view from above.

I also wrote that.

So on the one side youre telling me about all the money they would need to implement pvp and on the other side youre telling me this game doesnt NEED pvp to survive?

Pve and pvp=more diversity=more people for the game=more money

Lets face it,warframe is a shooter after all.

Shooters are way more easy to balance then a mmorpg(lets take wow as a example again) where skill a is owning skill b but skill b owns skill c and skill c just sucks and then theres skill xyz thats owns all other skills and has a very short cooldown............

You cant say warframe is the same like diablo just because they are the same genre.

Its like i say darkfall is the same like minecraft because they are both sandbox games.

Diablo doesnt seem similar to warframe for me at all.

Also please stop telling me if this game may or may not be for me.

I already said i like the game and that has nothing to do with diablo.

I dont have to like every rpg to like skyrim for example.

Its also not just grinding as far as i got in warframe.

you actually need tactics,use terminals and what not.

Im not very far so this oppinion is based on the small but good experience i had with warframe.

Im not thinking that i misunderstood you.

I just think we have different oppinions about that.

For example i dont think its a bad idea to lock skill for pvp.

You do.

Locking them is a crutch for you.

For me its a easy way to avoid balance issuses regarding pvp.

And if we going for the facts,it IS a easy way to avoid balance issues.

If the players may or may not like it,is not sure.

By the way,far cry 3 also limits your skills in the multiplayer mode.

All melee skills are not available for example but the multiplayer mode does well.

Actually,there are players that want to play a game on crutches...because they like the game so much.

Happens to mortal online...i also like it,even if its full of bugs and some not well implemented things.

If the devs can or can not afford it to implement pvp...i think they know the best of us all what and what not they can afford.

My point is just that pvp adds more diversity to the game and theres nothing wrong with having the option to do pvp in a pve oriented game.

They also dont have to implement it at release.

If you are right and they dont need pvp to keep the game alive they will have enough money to add a pvp mode later.

Maybe they can already afford it...i dont know.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Sendrik

[coupdegrac3]

PvP only possible in Left for Dead Style

[Sendrik]

Thats not really a good way to test your abiltties compared to others since the teams are too different in therms of gameplay...POSSIBLE would be a lot.

Anyway...im going to sleep now...its nearly midnight here so good night guys.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Sendrik

[neKroMancer]

Warframe without powers, Blasphemy.

PvP aspect of Warframe is hard to balance since we currently have lots of abilities that will effectively kill player(s) in one hit. Taking powers away from the game degrade it into a space COD clone or GunZ.

Power isn't a 'crutch', it's part of of gameplay that make Warframe unique. If you desparately want a good 3rd person shooter game then Max Payn 3 multiplayer might be good for you.

[Kurtino]

I personally think they should go through with a PVP approach but not on a huge ranked scale.

If you've ever played Combat Arms I think it should take that games direction. I loved that it was both PVP and PVE because both modes were simple but solid, but the game itself was just terrible.

If you add simple little modes, like infection or CTF and duels then yeah the game could be enhanced around that. It doesn't have to take huge amounts of balancing but it would take some time. Heck, you could even disable abilities and make it so every frame is cosmetic in multiplayer, there are tonnes of ways to do it.

Warframe without powers, Blasphemy.

PvP aspect of Warframe is hard to balance since we currently have lots of abilities that will effectively kill player(s) in one hit. Taking powers away from the game degrade it into a space COD clone or GunZ.

Power isn't a 'crutch', it's part of of gameplay that make Warframe unique. If you desparately want a good 3rd person shooter game then Max Payn 3 multiplayer might be good for you.

Whenever I see posts like this my reply is simply why not?

Why not just improve the overall quality of the game by adding even more variation? The abilities can be easily modified if they are really such a necessity or removed for certain modes if they're not. I personally find the abilities to be very lack luster in this game actually, much of the abilities being similar to just holding E and slicing a enemy in half or just doing a bit of damage but each to their own. The way the game moves, controls and feels with the combat and overall gameplay is just good enough for people to be able to appreciate it in different modes.

It's not a must have but I honestly think why not? Other than time contraints of course but they never have to focus solely on a addition like this..it would just make the game better for those who think "Damn this game would be perfect with PVP".

Edited January 10, 2013 by Kurtino

[ACRONYNJA]

An asymmetric PVP ala Dark Souls could be interesting and not require a complete overhaul of the system, where one player plays a "dark" Tenno and hunts the other Tennos with the goal of sabotaging/delaying or stopping their mission. Dark Tenno has advanced stealth and hit and run capabilities and may be able to issue commands to the enemy factions.

[Sikab]

An asymmetric PVP ala Dark Souls could be interesting and not require a complete overhaul of the system, where one player plays a "dark" Tenno and hunts the other Tennos with the goal of sabotaging/delaying or stopping their mission. Dark Tenno has advanced stealth and hit and run capabilities and may be able to issue commands to the enemy factions.

While I'm completely against the PvP idea in Warframe... This sounds fun :)

[Sendrik]

Why not let the players that want pvp decide if its blasphemy or not?

Im pretty sure they will be thankfull that there is pvp at all.

And the same goes for you:max payne is not for me just because you say it.

I like this setting of warframe and most other stuff.

Im not just searching for some shooter with a multiplayer mode to shoot at each other.

Youre acting like it doesnt matter what game it is,its just important that the pvp-dude has some shooter to do pvp right?

Its not.

Just because i like pvp,it doesnt mean i autmoaticly like every game with pvp.

So i would be thankful to everyone here if we could finally cut it with the,,this game is for you''thematic.

I didnt say powers are a crutch.

If you read carfully you should notice the spot where i wrote that it makes me sad but if most people want it,lets lock the abbilities.

Sure i would be glad to have the powers for pvp.

I just made that idea for the case the devs think its indeed to much work to balance pvp that much.

Oh and good morning...i have to go now.

Im not here to get a advice about what game i should play,im here to improve warframe because i like it.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Sendrik