PvP?

[PhaZoNxxx]

I feel like the pvp in this game would be so much fun, why not? Oh well. I hope they do. And I do agree - this game doesn't have the depth/storyline of a borderlands (comprable game) to live purely off pve

Edited January 11, 2013 by PhaZoN

[Naruchico]

No thanks, pvp is the essence of bad to me, look at PVP based games, most turn into 1 of 3 things.

1. Rinse repeat tactics (LOL, DOTA 2)

2. Gear smash (whoever has the better gear wins "WoW,Tera, any MMO with PVP really)

3. The Trollfest Shooter ( pick an FPS all the same run around click click your dead)

PVP in most games is the end-game, or the main stay, but they just end up being a boring excuse to continue playing the game, "Look at my amazing KDR, I sho 1337, time to pwn more noobs lolzor"

I think a game without PVP in this era would be a freaking legendardy movement.

I would rather have AI vs Player Conquest, give us a space map, and let us keep the baddies at bay constantly fighting over pieces of the map, give us larger scale combat like defend a city, or a space-port, battle on a giant battlecruiser.

Make this feel like a war...I mean isn't that the base-line of the story?

[Aristeus]

There could be an invasion mechanic where players spawn as enemies and try to trip people up in missions. Other than that, I really can't think of a PvP mode for Warframe that wouldn't be boring or pay2win.

[Nubsawce]

I am incredibly confused as to where Naruchico learned how to play LoL or DotA 2. I don't think I've ever played a more adaptive game, and I've gotten probably 1000 hours in between DotA, LoL, HoN, and DotA 2, if not 1500.

On-topic: I do not think PvP would necessarily be well structured on this. There are a lot of abilities that would become one-shot sorts of things. I mean, rhino stomp and getting a face full of shotgun is going to be a major issue. But if they nerf all the abilities, the PvE suffers. I wonder if it would be for the best to try PvP, instead of perhaps adding different kinds of modes. Perhaps a better route is planet-side turf control against the computers or something, so you persistently try to keep planets under Tenno control from other squads. Same PvE gameplay with a new, persistent face for replay value.

[Kurtino]

No thanks, pvp is the essence of bad to me, look at PVP based games, most turn into 1 of 3 things.

1. Rinse repeat tactics (LOL, DOTA 2)

2. Gear smash (whoever has the better gear wins "WoW,Tera, any MMO with PVP really)

3. The Trollfest Shooter ( pick an FPS all the same run around click click your dead)

PVP in most games is the end-game, or the main stay, but they just end up being a boring excuse to continue playing the game, "Look at my amazing KDR, I sho 1337, time to pwn more noobs lolzor"

I think a game without PVP in this era would be a freaking legendardy movement.

I would rather have AI vs Player Conquest, give us a space map, and let us keep the baddies at bay constantly fighting over pieces of the map, give us larger scale combat like defend a city, or a space-port, battle on a giant battlecruiser.

Make this feel like a war...I mean isn't that the base-line of the story?

Just because you don't like PVP games doesn't mean others don't.

Same can be said for PVE games exactly, all of the points you listed apply to PVE.

Rinse and repeat tactics (against AI, which is even more boring).

Gear Smash (Best gear or specific gear that's the best in PVE)

And I don't even know what your third point is honestly and I'm fluently English.

Also your points were just incorrect because in a PVP game all 3 of those can be completely different, such as balanced PVP, tactics being different since everyones different online and...yeah I'm not going to comment on what that third thing was.

I am incredibly confused as to where Naruchico learned how to play LoL or DotA 2.

I'm terribly confused about Naruchico himself...but it's clear from what he typed that he didn't learn how to play LoL or DotA 2.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Kurtino

[Sealgaire]

Is there any game in existence that has PvP and PvE and doesn't half-&#! one or both? It seems like you would basically have to create two different games, requiring double the developement resources. I don't see a way in which it wouldn't detract from one or both aspects.

[Naruchico]

The third point mainly pertained to the populace I have found around PVP games, they tend to me very young, very annoying, and very interested in being a giant troll.

And it is true, many of that pertains to PvE aswell, but atleast PvE doesnt encourage you to troll, and use any and all ways to be better than the rest. PvP encourages hacking, PvE that isn't grindy doesnt encourage hacking or botting.

[Tetsmeha]

The third point mainly pertained to the populace I have found around PVP games, they tend to me very young, very annoying, and very interested in being a giant troll.

And it is true, many of that pertains to PvE aswell, but atleast PvE doesnt encourage you to troll, and use any and all ways to be better than the rest. PvP encourages hacking, PvE that isn't grindy doesnt encourage hacking or botting.

Sorry but you're wrong there buddy.

Take a look at Nexon's Vindictus, a really well done PVE game with crap PVP. From the very start there were tons of botters and gold sellers, and they all continue today. All those points you listed are null, and PVP will not ruin Warframes PVE in any way. Besides, the game is a shooter at base. Remove all stats from the game and Warframe is just a 3rd person shooter.

[astrobird]

I would rather have AI vs Player Conquest, give us a space map, and let us keep the baddies at bay constantly fighting over pieces of the map, give us larger scale combat like defend a city, or a space-port, battle on a giant battlecruiser.

Make this feel like a war...I mean isn't that the base-line of the story?

This is sadly the only really amazing idea/point that can possibly be derived from your comment.

I support this idea fully, though.

[Slapmaster5000]

How about starting with some interesting ideas like they had for Dark Sector, such as the mode where one person plays as Hayden and the rest have to hunt him? Maybe have some sort of function where people could jump into others missions for some reason and compete for the objective? There are all sorts of possibilities that don't have to be limited to the staple game modes of other multiplayer shooters; I believe digital extremes could think of some cool stuff to implement for pvp, I personally think a pvpve gamemode is a cool idea.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Slapmaster5000

[MEsoJD]

pvp is probably inevitable...

[MegatechBody]

PvPers are 9/10 times huge jerks who have a huge lack of sportsmanship.

Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody

[Volume]

Is there any game in existence that has PvP and PvE and doesn't half-&#! one or both? It seems like you would basically have to create two different games, requiring double the developement resources. I don't see a way in which it wouldn't detract from one or both aspects.

Unreal Tournament would be my sarcastic answer if the single player wasn't just multiplayer with bots involved, so my silly answer is Doom II. Seriously, the coop is very good, and they didn't have to rebalance PvE for PvP reasons haha.

The third point mainly pertained to the populace I have found around PVP games, they tend to me very young, very annoying, and very interested in being a giant troll.

And it is true, many of that pertains to PvE aswell, but atleast PvE doesnt encourage you to troll, and use any and all ways to be better than the rest. PvP encourages hacking, PvE that isn't grindy doesnt encourage hacking or botting.

D3 doesn't have PVP yet and they just banned a few thousand players for botting (and others still continue to). Grindy mechanics exist in this game, but it's much harder to program a bot to adapt to objectives that change throughout levels and such, but even if one is developed, there's no player trading, and the crafting system is still in its infancy (though it's really really really cool), so there's currently less incentive to bot in this game than other games.

Anyway, there are a ton of changes coming soon I'm sure - including that "real war" feel, which we'll get to one day.

PvPers are 9/10 times huge jerks who have a huge lack of sportsmanship.

I don't want the "competitive crowd" to "ruin the game" but a PvP option must exist for the longevity of the game.

I talked about it a bit here: https://forums.warfr...__20#entry16675

I didn't want to use the Diablo example but someone else already brought it up... But the truth is people play a game like this for many different reasons, and some people like both PVE and PVP, and don't really want PVE to be messed up for the sake of PVP, but still think PVP should exist in some way, shape, or form, just to satisfy that competitive nature and wanting to challenge ourselves.

I'll reiterate it here because that post is way too long - I don't want PVE to be compromised for the sake of PVP. Make the best PVE game possible first. That's why my simple simple suggestion of a friendly-fire option in private games (you know, for more interesting and dynamic PVE, wink wink nudge nudge) could be used to simulate PVP, but it would obviously be a very barebones minimal-code-altering-required kind of thing. I'd love me some asymetric L4D-style PVP, or some 4v4 arena with warframe abilities, or capture the flag with all the cool abilities we have, but I can always go play ShootMania for that - Warframe is meant to be a PVE game, a dungeon crawler, if you will, and I want it to be a damn impressive one, and if it's done right (and so far it's fantastic), it can stand on its own as "omg a co-op shooter that has people work towards a common goal without the egotistical elitism that ruins most shooters" and I'd love it to have success in this PVP-only, "e-sport" world as the complete opposite of all the crap that's pushed out for $60 on consoles where you run around with dual 1887s oneshotting everybody.

TL;DR: I want Warframe to be a PVE game but people might wanna duel each other sometime so why not let them? Don't make it a PVP-game, don't focus on it, don't centralize gameplay around it, but if people wanna hit each other with swords and everything, there's gotta be some way of doing it.

It just seems like ancient ninja samurai warrior construct once-humans fused with organic exoskeletons designed for war might want to test each others strength in some honorable trial, or something. I don't know.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Volume

[Krabat]

This game truly needs PVP to thrive. Co-op is great for fun and leveling but competition is what drives everything good in the world.

I don't see why people would be against a PVP option. You don't have to play it.

Warframe is perfectly suited for PVP and would work well with constant balances.

[Sealgaire]

Warframe is perfectly suited for PVP and would work well with constant balances.

I don't think that people who say this give it much thought. Here's an excercise; Imagine the powers of you warframe being used against you. Almost none of the abilities in this game would be even remotely fun to play against. Aside from being instakilled by most of them, you could be blinded, disarmed, made to float helplessly in the air, have an invisible dude shoot or chop you to pieces, etc. Games that focus on PvP get the balance right rarely enough, never mind a game that was never intended to have it.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Sealgaire

[Nocturo]

I don't think that people who say this give it much thought. Here's an excercise; Imagine the powers of you warframe being used against you. Almost none of the abilities in this game would be even remotely fun to play against. Aside from being instakilled by most of them, you could be blinded, disarmed, made to float helplessly in the air, have an invisible dude shoot or chop you to pieces, etc. Games that focus on PvP get the balance right rarely enough, never mind a game that was never intended to have it.

At first I wanted to agree that WF is suited for PvP, but Sealgaire has a strong point here. ATM WF is definitely not suited and it would require a lot of work and rebalancing to make it fun. Just cutting out special abilities is like making it a HALO-clon or smthg. Totaly useless. So, basically all the frames would have to be re-tweaked to be fit for battles in order them to be fun. just floating around and being killed is no fun

It probably would even require a different set of skills/abilities for each WF for PvP battles, so I dunno... somewhat later I'd love to see PvP test areas to just try it out, to see if it'll work in a way here, because there surely IS a great potential to this, but only after the PvE content is fully implemented and polished. PvP could be an extra future update to freshen it co-op gameplay....

Edited January 11, 2013 by Nocturo

[Ced23Ric]

I don't see why people would be against a PVP option.

No, you clearly don't.

I'll cut myself short, as this is the umpteenth time this has been explained. PvP sucks out resources from other development, hurting PvE, hurting overarching game progression and requires a lot tighter observation. This either splits the game into two mediocre ones or slows it down to a crawl. Another reason: Saturation. There are tons of PvP games, competing isn't necessarily a good idea. Another reason: Warframe in its current state is completely design around a few players fightung hundreds of enemies. None of the abilities are even close to be balanceable, most are instant kills without counters, with locked animations. Another one: PvP is not the the vision for Warframe. It is a cooperative dungeon crawler TPS.

If you don't understand these reasons, that is okay. But you are essentially asking for a BMW at the Ford dealership. Wrong game for PvP.

[Nocturo]

competing isn't necessarily a good idea.

While I would agree with you here in terms of future evolution of the human species as a whole, considering WF and it's co-op play there is a lot of competition already and it will always be the case. I have no need to explain it further, as it was done numerous times in the forum. If you don't see it, it's just your perception of things...

[PaleMinerva]

Can we not talk about PvP in this game ever again?

[Nocturo]

Can we not talk about PvP in this game ever again?

It's quite rude to try to forbid someone expressing oneself. If you're sick of a particular topic - don't participate in it, as simple as that. There will always be talk about PvP, because the demand in an action-driven online game for it is very high.

[Red404]

The only PvP I can really think of in this game that I might agree with is the L4D style. Just let the opposing team control the bigger creeps/mini bosses or let them jump from creep to creep and no real rebalancing would really be needed.

[PaleMinerva]

At the very least, you can restrict it to a single topic.

[Nocturo]

The only PvP I can really think of in this game that I might agree with is the L4D style. Just let the opposing team control the bigger creeps/mini bosses or let them jump from creep to creep and no real rebalancing would really be needed.

Sounds pretty interesting combined with the ALIEN MOD suggestion here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/3021-some-suggestions-for-future/

[Shinodo]

As much as pvp might be good for this game, i personally think it wouldnt be fun anyway. The amount of games i have joined and not being able to load because of someones bad connection etc. Think of what it would be like if we got more than 4 players on a map. Besides there would be so much ability abuse, People will just run and find all the energy orbs and spam abilites e.g. Loki Invis and its auto crit from it ( I already abuse this in PvE enough)

[PaleMinerva]

Volt. ggnore