Warframe's Ultimate Killing Machine Radial Javelin

[RealPandemonium]

I wasn't reaching, I was only saying that radiation does bonus damage against corpus robotic. And that's true. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Radiation_Damage

She isn't bad against corpus, she's not as good as she is against grineer but she's still usually the frame with the most damage and kills on Cerberus. 

You're not wrong in your conclusion but Radiation isn't really worth it against Robotics except maybe for high level Fusion Moas and Attack Drones.

[jmforeman02]

You're not wrong in your conclusion but Radiation isn't really worth it against Robotics except maybe for high level Fusion Moas and Attack Drones.

I'll admit radiation isn't ideal against corpus, but it does seem to be the best mass kill ability for corpus regardless. Grineer even more so. It's only really weak against infested. 

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Elite Lancers, Corrupted Lancers, Eviscerators, Bombards, and Napalms aren't relevant?  Radiation is also bad against Corpus, that guy was reaching when he mentioned them.  

Their are like 50 types of Grinneer that are more relevant that, have ferrite and are clone flesh. 5 types of Grinneers are irrelevant versus 50 types.

 

Lol. I didn't say that I would "stand by it no matter what." You're putting words in my mouth. It shows how desperate you are that you are attacking things I never said rather than presenting evidence, or showing a problem with my math. I said that I stand by my statement that mirage's  ult is better than Excalibur's because I have reason to do so. I presented math and evidence to support my position. You've presented nothing but assertions. I have therefore stuck by my well supported argument and not given into your baseless argument. That's not being close minded. That's being rational. You're the one being close minded for not allowing evidence to sway your opinion. When you finally offer some evidence, I'll consider it. Until then, there is only one side to consider.

 

Radiation is the standard anti-grineer elemental combo for people who know what they are doing. It is strong against alloy armor which is what's on the heaviest grineer units. That's why the Detron (an anti-grineer shotgun pistol) does it's damage in radiation. Viral is not a good choice. People have tested and found out that you're much better off targeting their armor than their health. That's also why puncture is better than slash for grineer. The Detron, dark dagger, and dark sword allow you to have radiation and corrosive at the same time which is amazingly good against grineer. Point is, radiation is king against grineer.

 

You should also keep in mind that Excalibur's Radial Javelin uses all three IPS damage types. This means that no matter the type of enemy or enemy hitpoint about 1/3 of the damage will get a bonus, 1/3 will be neutral, and 1/3 will get a penalty. In other words it will usually deal around 1,000 damage regardless of the enemy. Mirage's Prism will be better than that against some enemies and worse against others. She will be very effective against grineer, average against corpus, and bad against infested. That being said, because her power is better than excal's she can afford some damage penalties without becoming less effective.

 

 

I wasn't reaching, I was only saying that radiation does bonus damage against corpus robotic. And that's true. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Radiation_Damage

She isn't bad against corpus, she's not as good as she is against grineer but she's still usually the frame with the most damage and kills on Cerberus. 

 

 

Your whole first paragraph is a ed hominem. Ed hominem a fallacy that involves attacking the persons character. A fallacy a unsound argument.

 

 

I stated my reply about closing your mind because you simply stated, "My point was the Mirage is more efficient for that kind of kill farming and I stand by that." 

 

"Stand by" definition support or remain loyal, typically in the time of need.

 

I am sorry, but you cannot simply use a fallacy to define your whole argument. 

 

This whole topic is evidence, have you not read any of the arguments, the past posts have had or the original post?

 

1,000 damage I don't know anybodies radial Javelin that, only hits 1000.

 

I would post more pictures on how good Radial Javelin, but others will refute them by simply stating "No"

Edited February 14, 2015 by (PS4)AwkwardMonkers

[jmforeman02]

Their are like 50 types of Grinneer that are more relevant that, have ferrite and are clone flesh. 5 types of Grinneers are irrelevant versus 50 types.

 

 

Your whole first paragraph is a ed hominem. Ed hominem a fallacy that involves attacking the persons character. A fallacy a unsound argument.

 

 

I stated my reply about closing your mind because you simply stated, "My point was the Mirage is more efficient for that kind of kill farming and I stand by that." 

 

"Stand by" definition support or remain loyal, typically in the time of need.

 

I am sorry, but you cannot simply use a fallacy to define your whole argument. 

 

This whole topic is evidence, have you not read any of the arguments, the past posts have had or the original post?

 

1,000 damage I don't know anybodies radial Javelin that, only hits 1000.

Are you serious man? First of all, the 5 grineer you mentioned are among the most dangerous. Also since one of those is 5 is the elite lancer, alloy armor will be the most common type at high levels. Second, It's "ad hominem" not "ed hominem" and I know what it means. Third, I attacked your arguments and I do think the straw man argument (which is what you used when you misquoted me and then argued against the misquote) is the last ditch of the desperate. You can call that an ad hominem attack if you like but it's by no means my whole argument. My argument was based on math and sources. Yours was based on nothing. By the way a straw man argument is also an informal fallacy since we are on the subject. I stand by my arguments not because of resistance to change, but because you've failed to disprove them and you've offered no evidence. I have read your previous posts on this subject. Almost everything you've said has been demonstrably wrong, and what's more I demonstrated it with math and references. Lastly, you still fail to realize that I'm using the base numbers for the abilities because mods will affect both of them the same way so they add nothing to a comparison. This is the third time I've said that in this thread. Have you read the previous posts?

Edited February 14, 2015 by jmforeman02

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Are you serious man? First of all, the 5 grineer you mentioned are among the most dangerous. Also since one of those is 5 is the elite lancer, alloy armor will be the most common type at high levels. Second, It's "ad hominem" not "ed hominem" and I know what it means. Third, I attacked your arguments and I do think the straw man argument (which is what you used when you misquoted me and then argued against the misquote) is the last ditch of the desperate. You can call that an ad hominem attack if you like but it's by no means my whole argument. My argument was based on math and sources. Yours was based on nothing. By the way a straw man argument is also an informal fallacy since we are on the subject. I stand by my arguments not because of resistance to change, but because you've failed to disprove them and you've offered no evidence. I have read your previous posts on this subject. Almost everything you've said has been demonstrably wrong, and what's more I demonstrated it with math and references. Lastly, you still fail to realize that I'm using the base numbers for the abilities because mods will affect both of them the same way so they add nothing to a comparison. This is the third time I've said that in this thread. Have you read the previous posts?

The most dangerous? The most dangerous Grineer is the Heavy Gunner. 5 different types of Grineer in different missions types, so divided between 2,3 Grineers. 

 

What are you a philosophy major, philosophy expert perhaps or did you learn all this in Google? 

 

What your doing is pretty much this, "straw man argument" you mean "straw man fallacy". Similar to one of those guys who corrects peoples spelling. Theirs a big different between an argument and a fallacy. 

 

Base numbers? Have you seen the new news thread "by the numbers"? Simply theirs a reason why Radial Javelin got all those kills and damage. Their are probably tens of thousands of people who's gotten over 1k-2k hours on Warframe who have everything. Their is a reason why Mirage isn't on the, list for incredibly strong damage provider. What numbers are you talking about? Are those your numbers? I can beat all your numbers in an instant with Radial Javelin. No matter how many kills or damage you can put out with your Mirage or whatever else I can beat it. That is how confident I am with Radial Javelin damage output. 

 

Multiple people have agreed on the subject that, Excalibur Radial Javelin is way to strong, some even agree that, its probably the strongest damage output in the game. 

 

I am not a new player. Mostly everyone in this forum is not a new player.

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Read the posts, look at my build, look at the pictures and try it yourself using my build or someone else. See what kind of numbers you get. If your so sure, then theirs no reason not to try again. Who knows maybe it can help you in some way or clarify and strengthen your argument. Post some pictures or whatever. 

 

Theirs another thread also by Mechaknight if you want some more information. 

[jmforeman02]

The most dangerous? The most dangerous Grineer is the Heavy Gunner. 5 different types of Grineer in different missions types, so divided between 2,3 Grineers. 

 

What are you a philosophy major, philosophy expert perhaps or did you learn all this in Google? 

 

What your doing is pretty much this, "straw man argument" you mean "straw man fallacy". Similar to one of those guys who corrects peoples spelling. Theirs a big different between an argument and a fallacy. 

 

Base numbers? Have you seen the new news thread "by the numbers"? Simply theirs a reason why Radial Javelin got all those kills and damage. Their are probably tens of thousands of people who's gotten over 1k-2k hours on Warframe who have everything. Their is a reason why Mirage isn't on the, list for incredibly strong damage provider. What numbers are you talking about? Are those your numbers? I can beat all your numbers in an instant with Radial Javelin. No matter how many kills or damage you can put out with your Mirage or whatever else I can beat it. That is how confident I am with Radial Javelin damage output. 

 

Multiple people have agreed on the subject that, Excalibur Radial Javelin is way to strong, some even agree that, its probably the strongest damage output in the game. 

 

I am not a new player. Mostly everyone in this forum is not a new player.

 

Read the posts, look at my build, look at the pictures and try it yourself using my build or someone else. See what kind of numbers you get. If your so sure, then theirs no reason not to try again. Who knows maybe it can help you in some way or clarify and strengthen your argument. Post some pictures or whatever. 

 

Theirs another thread also by Mechaknight if you want some more information. 

 

 

The Napalms and Bombards are also among the most dangerous. Eviscerators can also pump out the dps. Heavy gunners are up there too, but they aren't the only dangerous grineer. You also seem to have completely skipped over or ignored the point that since elite lancers have alloy armor, the majority of grineer you fight at high levels will have alloy armor.

 

What does any of this have to do with philosophy? Or is it that you think that logic and proper arguments are only useful in philosophy? I realize they often teach them in philosophy class, but it turns out that logic is pretty important in science, math, oration, and any number of other fields. And the straw man argument is a fallacy, it's also an argument, which is why it's known as both. If you don't believe me, feel free to look and see that "straw man argument" appears 4 times on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man. Ad hominem is never called "ed hominem" however, at least not correctly.

 

I have seen the by the numbers. All that proves is that more people THINK radial javelin is better than prism and therefore use it more. This is by the way known as a bandwagon appeal. Or if you prefer, a bandwagon fallacy, or even more properly "argumentum ad populum". I want to give you all the common names just in case you think one is better than another like before. I'll remind you that you were the one who started naming fallacies. I'm just playing your game (better).

 

I disagree about radial javelin being way too strong, but that's just my opinion. What isn't opinion is that mirage's prism will usually out damage radial javelin (see math in previous posts). You act like I've never done a radial javelin build, I have. I'm not a new player either. I'm mastery 18. I've seen the numbers and effectiveness and found it to be less than Mirage's Prism the majority of the time (infested are an exception). I've done the math to prove it and you still haven't even tried to take that on. I can only imagine it's because you know that it's right. I'm sorry that you have a lot of misconceptions such as: viral is the best element for grineer, radial javelin is the best damaging ability, heavy gunners are the only dangerous grineer, the phrase "straw man argument" is incorrect. But just because you believe those things, doesn't make them true. You already lost this debate, not admitting it to yourself doesn't change that.

Edited February 14, 2015 by jmforeman02

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

 

 

The Napalms and Bombards are also among the most dangerous. Eviscerators can also pump out the dps. Heavy gunners are up there too, but they aren't the only dangerous grineer. You also seem to have completely skipped over or ignored the point that since elite lancers have alloy armor, the majority of grineer you fight at high levels will have alloy armor.

 

What does any of this have to do with philosophy? Or is it that you think that logic and proper arguments are only useful in philosophy? I realize they often teach them in philosophy class, but it turns out that logic is pretty important in science, math, oration, and any number of other fields. And the straw man argument is a fallacy, it's also an argument, which is why it's known as both. If you don't believe me, feel free to look and see that "straw man argument" appears 4 times on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man. Ad hominem is never called "ed hominem" however, at least not correctly.

 

I have seen the by the numbers. All that proves is that more people THINK radial javelin is better than prism and therefore use it more. This is by the way known as a bandwagon appeal. Or if you prefer, a bandwagon fallacy, or even more properly "argumentum ad populum". I want to give you all the common names just in case you think one is better than another like before. I'll remind you that you were the one who started naming fallacies. I'm just playing your game (better).

 

I disagree about radial javelin being way too strong, but that's just my opinion. What isn't opinion is that mirage's prism will usually out damage radial javelin (see math in previous posts). You act like I've never done a radial javelin build, I have. I'm not a new player either. I'm mastery 18. I've seen the numbers and effectiveness and found it to be less than Mirage's Prism the majority of the time (infested are an exception). I've done the math to prove it and you still haven't even tried to take that on. I can only imagine it's because you know that it's right. I'm sorry that you have a lot of misconceptions such as: viral is the best element for grineer, radial javelin is the best damaging ability, heavy gunners are the only dangerous grineer, the phrase "straw man argument" is incorrect. But just because you believe those things, doesn't make them true. You already lost this debate, not admitting it to yourself doesn't change that.

 

 

Ever seen a Heavy Gunner Eximus in a tower 4 survival? It takes to many shoots to kill that thing because it has way to much health, fast fire rate and that knockdown it does if you get to close. Not to mention they can immediately start one shooting you in the first 5 minutes of a tower 4 survival, if your not careful or don't have redirection or vitality type mods on. 

 

Philosophy is the study of many aspects of thinking. Philosophy is important in many other aspects of subjects to strengthen their conclusions. For example, science primarily rely on science first then, if they cant possibly come up with a better conclusion then they have already come up with, they use philosophical analyze to strengthen their stance. It is important for other subjects to use philosophy to strengthen their stances, but is not accepted due to being ambiguous.

 

Wikipedia is an un-trusted source because it can be edited by people like you and me. Most experts of their own respective don't use Wikipedia because they write all their information in their own books. If you went to college or any higher types of education you would know not to use Wikipedia, because it's one of the first lessons they want to sketch in our brains. Do not use Wikipedia! 

 

Source: Myself I took 2 philosophy classes and A's them both. I'm not an expert, but I still remember what I was studying. 1. Introduction to Philosophy. 2. Informal Logic. 

 

Stop with all this philosophical stuff. Your not a philosophical or a logical expert to question if I am wrong or right. You have no qualifications to teach others about philosophy if you are using Wikipedia.

 

 

Mastery doesn't mean a thing. I've seen new players get mastery 18 in 300 hours of playtime, some have probably seen it sooner. Corrosive is the best damage for Grineer because they have armor. Viral is the best when they have no armor, (hint: 4 corrosive projection=-100% armor) because Viral half's their health and your only damaging their health.

 

You keep using the "straw man fallacy", but did you know their is a lot more types of fallacy? I don't think anyone is ignorant.

 

My original statement state's, Radial Javelin is the strongest Warframe ability in the game because of its killing potential. Your argument No, Mirages Prisms is much stronger. 

 

Prove it. Show some pictures.    

 

Prove us wrong. All those people using Radial Javelin in "by the numbers" can't be wrong or can they? Last month they added Torid as the gun that, people use to get a lot of kills. I tried it out myself and I have to agree its better than my Gammacor at dealing damage, but less superior to my dread for getting fast 1 shoots. I tried it out in a tower 4 survival with (viral and radiation elemental) and at two hours it did more damage than my Gammacor (magnetic and radiation elemental). The Torid was faster at killing Grineers and Corpus, but the Gammacor was more efficient at killing robotics. I could not kill ancients.  

 

Choose your words very carefully because it can lead to misinterpretations. Edit your grammar because it shows lack of education. Finally don't act like you understand logical thinking because most people in our society have a Napoleanic complex, where no matter how unsound their statement maybe, they still say no, "I am right." It is a psychological defense to protect a way of thinking. Philosophy has told us many times that, however we may think right now, "it is wrong". Why is it wrong? We refuse to accept the underlying facts that, we are miss informed and need to completely delete all the information we have in our brain to have a greater understanding.  

 

If you can prove Mirage's prism through pictures or videos is stronger than, Radial Javelin, I will concede and say, "your right I will use this now to get a lot more kills." Simple and easy. 

 

Not only did you prove you are correct, but you have also changed my ideology. 

[Edgarhighman]

THIS POST IS PRIMARILY TO INFORM FORUM READERS THAT RADIAL JAVELIN CAN GIVE YOU MASS AMOUNTS OF KILLS IN A VERY SHORT TIME AND NOT AT ALL A POST THAT STATES "NERF" RADIAL JAVELIN.

 

Excalibur's Radial Javelin can arguably be considered the strongest ability any Warframe can possess. Its killing potential is way to high, it shoots swords at the enemies similar to bullets, the range of how far the swords can travel to hit the enemies are exceedingly superior to our guns and the two second stun after the javelins hit are to massive of a stun. 

 

First lets start with Radial Javelins killing potential. In the wiki it states how Radial Javelin does 33%puncture, 33%slash and 33%impact damage which are condensed evenly between each proc. With full corrosive projection or full shield disruption (against corpus), the damage of our javelins are increased drastically surpassing shields and enemy armor. 

 

Second, Radial Javelins shoots at the enemies like bullets. Why is this a problem? Banshee who can be considered the strongest damage multiplier in the game, can use sonar multiple times and massively increase the damage of Radial Javelins to unknown numbers. People have reportedly told me they can hit between 58,000 to 120,000 per javelin with Banshee constantly using Sonar. I myself, can kill enemies at level 400 together with Radial Javelin and Banshee's sonar with luck and ability spamming.

 

Third, Radial Javelins range is tremendously wide. Anyone can go in any mission and completely destroy a whole room filled with enemies with one press of a button. Whats the big deal with Radial Javelins range? Their is a large amounts of people who got Excalibur for the sole purpose of spamming Radial Javelins in interception missions. Whats the point of doing any other mission if interception missions give more experience, more kills, more resources, and is safer? I see new players in interception missions farming for experience, veteran players who rep farm and farm for kills constantly. In rare occasions, I see individuals with multi-million kills and many others with hundred thousand kills with Excalibur, due to in fact Radial Javelins mass killing spam. This is most valid reason why Excalibur's Radial Javelin is the strongest Warframe in ability in the whole game.

 

Fourth, Radial Javelins two second stun is to massive. It gives us enough time to spam Radial Javelin constantly to kill enemies without the enemies ability to fight back. As long as they are in Radial Javelins Range their death is assured. 

 

In all honesty I wrote this topic to inform DE and players that, Radial Javelin can be used to get multi million kills and experience ludicrously fast. I have seen many people significantly increase their mastery and kill counts to veteran status in a few hours. 

 

Thank you for reading this long topic and I eagerly wait for the replies ahead if any. :)

 

Tower 4 defense 20 waves

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=jkiwdz&s=8#.VNk5zPnF98E

 

Tower 4 defense 30 waves

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=34o3f2v&s=8#.VNk57_nF98E

Maxed TF, 81% BR, maxed Intensify, +15% arcane pendragon... rad jav isn't that strong IMO.

 

Is there still a host/client power dmg bug? lets math: 15+30+55+81 = 181 pwr str, i'm only 18% off from excals MAX of 199% w/ items/mods.

 

Yeah its good for wimpier enemies, bug HG's bombards, wave 45+/minutes t4 stuff, you need rhino roar/nova to help out his ult.

 

I PREFER FIGHTING ENEMIES LEVEL 70-144 with any of my frames. Its annoying to spend 20-30 minutes getting enemies that strong. Then have teamates not be able to 1: Hold their own or 2: quit out on you because they cant handle it. Its hard to find good squads in recruiting or pub, (Need better player/friends or clan mates or something???! ugh PM ME for void stuff, My username is my username. I play Roar Rhino, Irrad Loki,

Miasma Saryn, GP Mag, Rad Jav Excal, Mesa, Des Nek, Tanky Valk + Mirage HoM or TE

[jmforeman02]

Ever seen a Heavy Gunner Eximus in a tower 4 survival? It takes to many shoots to kill that thing because it has way to much health, fast fire rate and that knockdown it does if you get to close. Not to mention they can immediately start one shooting you in the first 5 minutes of a tower 4 survival, if your not careful or don't have redirection or vitality type mods on. 

 

Philosophy is the study of many aspects of thinking. Philosophy is important in many other aspects of subjects to strengthen their conclusions. For example, science primarily rely on science first then, if they cant possibly come up with a better conclusion then they have already come up with, they use philosophical analyze to strengthen their stance. It is important for other subjects to use philosophy to strengthen their stances, but is not accepted due to being ambiguous.

 

Wikipedia is an un-trusted source because it can be edited by people like you and me. Most experts of their own respective don't use Wikipedia because they write all their information in their own books. If you went to college or any higher types of education you would know not to use Wikipedia, because it's one of the first lessons they want to sketch in our brains. Do not use Wikipedia! 

 

Source: Myself I took 2 philosophy classes and A's them both. I'm not an expert, but I still remember what I was studying. 1. Introduction to Philosophy. 2. Informal Logic. 

 

Stop with all this philosophical stuff. Your not a philosophical or a logical expert to question if I am wrong or right. You have no qualifications to teach others about philosophy if you are using Wikipedia.

 

 

Mastery doesn't mean a thing. I've seen new players get mastery 18 in 300 hours of playtime, some have probably seen it sooner. Corrosive is the best damage for Grineer because they have armor. Viral is the best when they have no armor, (hint: 4 corrosive projection=-100% armor) because Viral half's their health and your only damaging their health.

 

You keep using the "straw man fallacy", but did you know their is a lot more types of fallacy? I don't think anyone is ignorant.

 

My original statement state's, Radial Javelin is the strongest Warframe ability in the game because of its killing potential. Your argument No, Mirages Prisms is much stronger. 

 

Prove it. Show some pictures.    

 

Prove us wrong. All those people using Radial Javelin in "by the numbers" can't be wrong or can they? Last month they added Torid as the gun that, people use to get a lot of kills. I tried it out myself and I have to agree its better than my Gammacor at dealing damage, but less superior to my dread for getting fast 1 shoots. I tried it out in a tower 4 survival with (viral and radiation elemental) and at two hours it did more damage than my Gammacor (magnetic and radiation elemental). The Torid was faster at killing Grineers and Corpus, but the Gammacor was more efficient at killing robotics. I could not kill ancients.  

 

Choose your words very carefully because it can lead to misinterpretations. Edit your grammar because it shows lack of education. Finally don't act like you understand logical thinking because most people in our society have a Napoleanic complex, where no matter how unsound their statement maybe, they still say no, "I am right." It is a psychological defense to protect a way of thinking. Philosophy has told us many times that, however we may think right now, "it is wrong". Why is it wrong? We refuse to accept the underlying facts that, we are miss informed and need to completely delete all the information we have in our brain to have a greater understanding.  

 

If you can prove Mirage's prism through pictures or videos is stronger than, Radial Javelin, I will concede and say, "your right I will use this now to get a lot more kills." Simple and easy. 

 

Not only did you prove you are correct, but you have also changed my ideology. 

 

1. Heavy gunners in Tower IV survival are corrupted/orokin faction, not grineer faction (see your codex if you don't believe me). Corrosive is the best elemental combo for the void, but that's irrelevant since we were talking about grineer as a whole, not just one enemy in a different setting.

 

2. No one here is talking about philosophy but you, so it sounds like you are arguing against yourself. Not that it matters, but I have had about the same level of education in philosophy as you which would mean that I'm just as qualified as you anyway.

 

3. I wasn't using wikipedia as a source in that post. I was using it as an example of how "straw man argument" is a commonly used phrase since you think that "straw man fallacy" is the only correct phrase. They are both correct since the "straw man" is both a fallacy and an argument.

 

4. I still don't see how philosophy is relevant to this, you are the one who keeps bringing it up. Logic is not exclusive to philosophy.

 

5. I did know that the straw man argument/fallacy wasn't the only one. That's how I managed to point out another fallacy that you made in the last post. Or did you forget that? The only reason I mentioned it again was to point out that you were incorrect when you tried to correct me on the name of it, which I proved.

 

6. My grammar is far from perfect, but still much better than yours, thank you. And I think the stubbornness and refusal to accept underlying facts applies to you not me. I have presented facts and math. You have not. As for logical thinking,  my argument has a foundation based on math which I demonstrated many posts ago which you still have not even tried to disprove. Yours is based on nothing but mostly incorrect assertions.

 

7. Pictures can't show that Prism deals more damage than Radial Javelin since the damage done by Prism is done 250/tick, 4  ticks/second (base), whereas Radial Javelin does 1,000 damage all at once (base). The question isn't "who makes the biggest damage numbers pop up?" though. The question is "which is more effective?" Fortunately pictures are not the only form of evidence. Math works too. Try taking on the math I posted in this thread. If you prefer a more experimental approach, a much better test would be to go play an interception, survival, or defense with an Excalibur and a Mirage see who gets the most damage and kills. The test should be done multiple times with good players using both frames and should be conducted by an independent and unbiased party. This would not be a perfect scientific study, but would be good enough for our purposes. A true scientific study on the matter would be much more complicated and would involve more controls. Since neither of us has so far been willing to take that kind of approach, we will have to depend on the only evidence so far contributed. That would be the math I posted. Until you can show it to be incorrect or contribute evidence of your own, there's nothing left to talk about. I have already proved my case and you have so far proved nothing. 

 

Because of your refusal to acknowledge proven facts, your frequent trips into irrelevant tangents, your inability or unwillingness to remeber what was said more than one post ago, and your frequent misinterpretations of what I've said (which I hope for your sake are deliberate), I can only assume that you are either a troll purposely derailing the argument to avoid giving way or a person incapable of having a reasonable debate. Either way it is no longer worth my time to continue having this conversation. I do not plan on becoming Sisyphus, forever pushing a boulder uphill (in this case Mount Ignorance).

Edited February 14, 2015 by jmforeman02

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

1. Heavy gunners in Tower IV survival are corrupted/orokin faction, not grineer faction (see your codex if you don't believe me). Corrosive is the best elemental combo for the void, but that's irrelevant since we were talking about grineer as a whole, not just one enemy in a different setting.

 

2. No one here is talking about philosophy but you, so it sounds like you are arguing against yourself. Not that it matters, but I have had about the same level of education in philosophy as you which would mean that I'm just as qualified as you anyway.

 

3. I wasn't using wikipedia as a source in that post. I was using it as an example of how "straw man argument" is a commonly used phrase since you think that "straw man fallacy" is the only correct phrase. They are both correct since the "straw man" is both a fallacy and an argument.

 

4. I still don't see how philosophy is relevant to this, you are the one who keeps bringing it up. Logic is not exclusive to philosophy.

 

5. I did know that the straw man argument/fallacy wasn't the only one. That's how I managed to point out another fallacy that you made in the last post. Or did you forget that? The only reason I mentioned it again was to point out that you were incorrect when you tried to correct me on the name of it, which I proved.

 

6. My grammar is far from perfect, but still much better than yours, thank you. And I think the stubbornness and refusal to accept underlying facts applies to you not me. I have presented facts and math. You have not. As for logical thinking,  my argument has a foundation based on math which I demonstrated many posts ago which you still have not even tried to disprove. Yours is based on nothing but mostly incorrect assertions.

 

7. Pictures can't show that Prism deals more damage than Radial Javelin since the damage done by Prism is done 250/tick, 4  ticks/second (base), whereas Radial Javelin does 1,000 damage all at once (base). The question isn't "who makes the biggest damage numbers pop up?" though. The question is "which is more effective?" Fortunately pictures are not the only form of evidence. Math works too. Try taking on the math I posted in this thread. If you prefer a more experimental approach, a much better test would be to go play an interception, survival, or defense with an Excalibur and a Mirage see who gets the most damage and kills. The test should be done multiple times with good players using both frames and should be conducted by an independent and unbiased party. This would not be a perfect scientific study, but would be good enough for our purposes. A true scientific study on the matter would be much more complicated and would involve more controls. Since neither of us has so far been willing to take that kind of approach, we will have to depend on the only evidence so far contributed. That would be the math I posted. Until you can show it to be incorrect or contribute evidence of your own, there's nothing left to talk about. I have already proved my case and you have so far proved nothing. 

 

Because of your refusal to acknowledge proven facts, your frequent trips into irrelevant tangents, your inability or unwillingness to remeber what was said more than one post ago, and your frequent misinterpretations of what I've said (which I hope for your sake are deliberate), I can only assume that you are either a troll purposely derailing the argument to avoid giving way or a person incapable of having a reasonable debate. Either way it is no longer worth my time to continue having this conversation. I do not plan on becoming Sisyphus, forever pushing a boulder uphill (in this case Mount Ignorance).

 

Theirs no more point arguing about this, if you cant show hard evidence that, your Prism does more damage then, your math is irrelevant.

 

 

That same math say's its possible to get 8000 corrosive on Saryn's Miasma. All experience players who use Miasma, will know that her damage becomes close to 25 at higher rounds. 

 

Your last post was all about philosophy. 

 

If multiple players can't continuously prove your "theory" then it's void. 

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk30_nF98F

Wave 10 1469

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4nvnF98E

Wave 17 1469,1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4P_nF98E

Wave 25 1469, 1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk49PnF98E

 

Who care's if a person is right or wrong, the correct truth is all that, matters. If you can back it up then, you will not change anyone's mind.

 

Every single time you mention that, your better at everything, proves how Narcissist and egotistical you are. No one cares.

 

http://www.sophia.org/online-courses-for-college-credit/ego-meter/result/15

 

Check that website out. Its a bad Ego-meter, but it will show what you really are to yourself. 

 

Facts are facts and your math is not a matter of fact, but a science. How often is science proven wrong by others? Every single day.. 

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Maxed TF, 81% BR, maxed Intensify, +15% arcane pendragon... rad jav isn't that strong IMO.

 

Is there still a host/client power dmg bug? lets math: 15+30+55+81 = 181 pwr str, i'm only 18% off from excals MAX of 199% w/ items/mods.

 

Yeah its good for wimpier enemies, bug HG's bombards, wave 45+/minutes t4 stuff, you need rhino roar/nova to help out his ult.

 

I PREFER FIGHTING ENEMIES LEVEL 70-144 with any of my frames. Its annoying to spend 20-30 minutes getting enemies that strong. Then have teamates not be able to 1: Hold their own or 2: quit out on you because they cant handle it. Its hard to find good squads in recruiting or pub, (Need better player/friends or clan mates or something???! ugh PM ME for void stuff, My username is my username. I play Roar Rhino, Irrad Loki,

Miasma Saryn, GP Mag, Rad Jav Excal, Mesa, Des Nek, Tanky Valk + Mirage HoM or TE

 

Theirs some tiny pics of what I was getting constantly in the void. 

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk30_nF98F

Wave 10 1469

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4nvnF98E

Wave 17 1469,1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4P_nF98E

Wave 25 1469, 1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk49PnF98E

 

It is better not to maximize your power strength because your energy will suffer. I have a couple more pictures of tower 4 survival high waves, Ill post more pics soon. 

 

The first hour of tower 4 survival is usually a waste of time, if you can 1 shoot everything tell then, with Radial Javelin.

I would play PC myself, but I'm scared my computer well crap out on me because of the frame rates, etc. I'm not an (IT) so I rather not risk it.

[jmforeman02]

Theirs no more point arguing about this, if you cant show hard evidence that, your Prism does more damage then, your math is irrelevant.

 

 

That same math say's its possible to get 8000 corrosive on Saryn's Miasma. All experience players who use Miasma, will know that her damage becomes close to 25 at higher rounds. 

 

Your last post was all about philosophy. 

 

If multiple players can't continuously prove your "theory" then it's void. 

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk30_nF98F

Wave 10 1469

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4nvnF98E

Wave 17 1469,1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4P_nF98E

Wave 25 1469, 1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk49PnF98E

 

Who care's if a person is right or wrong, the correct truth is all that, matters. If you can back it up then, you will not change anyone's mind.

 

Every single time you mention that, your better at everything, proves how Narcissist and egotistical you are. No one cares.

 

http://www.sophia.org/online-courses-for-college-credit/ego-meter/result/15

 

Check that website out. Its a bad Ego-meter, but it will show what you really are to yourself. 

 

Facts are facts and your math is not a matter of fact, but a science. How often is science proven wrong by others? Every single day.. 

 

Theirs some tiny pics of what I was getting constantly in the void. 

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk30_nF98F

Wave 10 1469

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4nvnF98E

Wave 17 1469,1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk4P_nF98E

Wave 25 1469, 1562

 

http://tinypic.com/v...=8#.VNk49PnF98E

 

It is better not to maximize your power strength because your energy will suffer. I have a couple more pictures of tower 4 survival high waves, Ill post more pics soon. 

 

The first hour of tower 4 survival is usually a waste of time, if you can 1 shoot everything tell then, with Radial Javelin.

I would play PC myself, but I'm scared my computer well crap out on me because of the frame rates, etc. I'm not an (IT) so I rather not risk it.

What do you think this proves? These are just pics of radial javelins. That doesn't prove anything. Do you think those numbers are impressing anyone? Do you think that you're the only one with access to strength mods or do you think you're the only genius that figured out that you can stack them? If you think math or science are useless, that's your problem. I hate to break the news to you but math is what drives all the damage calculations. Math is the language of the game. By the way, calling me a narcissist is an ad hominem attack/fallacy... you know, that thing you hate. And it would only be narcissism if I had a high opinion of myself, I don't; I just have a much lower opinion of you. I'm seriously done with this man. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by jmforeman02

[(PSN)AwkwardMonkers]

Those pics are proof that, Radial Javelin damage doesn't drop or scale. Sharing information to those who wan't to see how strong Radial Javelin truly is. 

 

Their you go again talking about philosophy. I'm not attacking your credibility, but your character. I am calling you a big ego person.

 

Lets examine your reply towards my last message. 

"Impressing anyone, your the only genius, your the only one, your problem, break the news to you, you know that thing you hate, i have a lower opinion of you"

 

http://www.wikihow.com/Not-Have-a-Big-Ego

 

If you truthfully don't have a big ego you can respect that, others opinions are as equal as yours. 

I come to this post to see what others say about Radial Javelin. Why is it you keep coming back to this post? If you do not have a big ego ignore this post and move on. Keep thinking your Prism is better than, Radial Javelin. 

 

 

If you can't show that, your Mirage's Prism is better with actual proof and not baseless math, then your point is invalid. People will still continue to think that, it does moderate damage while blinding the enemy. Others will also believe Radial Javelin is a mass killing tool to wipe out enemies. 

hint: Warframe news, "by the numbers".

[(PSN)Nozomi244]

Whoa slow down there friend.

You're being a bit overdramatic.

 

RJ is still one of the weaker nukes in the game. ITs nothing special and certainly not killing the game.

I could give you a list of other problems that are much more concerning then people using it to grind two nodes.

 

I don't see how being smart and using sonar to your advantage is a bad thing. I main Banshee and thats exactly what Sonar is for. I certainly don't need RJ to do dmg that high with sonar. 

I agree, in my opinion I would say Javelin is an awful ability. Why? It falls off at lvl like 40....

[Archangelzz]

I don't really see the problem and honestly you rarely ever see veteran Excalibur players who actually know what they are doing, if you actually know what your doing you can easily use all of his powers in high level games. And you really rarely ever see Excaliburs in game anyway.

[(PSN)icysuspect]

Saryn and Mag Prime are much better at killing all the things. You can have your piddly four digits.

 

RJ is way overrated because of Draco.

Edited February 20, 2015 by (PS4)icysuspect