Multishot For Shotguns Rework

[LasersGoPewPew]

what if multishot instead of shooting more pellets based on the chance, just had a chance of shooting a second set of pellets? with a reduced multishot chance to make it balanced and not a complete spam fest.........

[ZuryVarkoff]

what if we rename a tomato ... to a Tomato

[LasersGoPewPew]

what if we rename a tomato ... to a Tomato

but you do get the general concept i'd hope, ofc it'd have a different name but it'd still be the Multishot variant for shotguns.

[dEEkAy2k9]

but you do get the general concept i'd hope, ofc it'd have a different name but it'd still be the Multishot variant for shotguns.

so instead of shooting 30 pellets (made up number with 100% multishot) you want to shoot 15 pellets with a 100% chance to shoot another 15 pellets? wait what?

[ZuryVarkoff]

so hek as an example shoots 8 pelets if <120% multyshot procs then it shoots 16 pelets if 120% procs it shoots 24

 

now what you wrote i read as :

 

what if instead of shooting more pelets .... we change it so it shoots more pelets ?

[LasersGoPewPew]

so hek as an example shoots 8 pelets if <120% multyshot procs then it shoots 16 pelets if 120% procs it shoots 24

 

now what you wrote i read as :

 

what if instead of shooting more pelets .... we change it so it shoots more pelets ?

reducing the chance of multishot occuring but having the shotgun shoot out another set of pellets instead of having it shoot 2 or 3 more pellets per shot like it works currently is what i'm suggesting.

[Nubsawce]

reducing the chance of multishot occuring but having the shotgun shoot out another set of pellets instead of having it shoot 2 or 3 more pellets per shot like it works currently is what i'm suggesting.

Then that's just a straight nerf. At max rank, it shoots just over double pellets from the unmodified gun EVERY shot.

[ShAd0wF1AmE]

reducing the chance of multishot occuring but having the shotgun shoot out another set of pellets instead of having it shoot 2 or 3 more pellets per shot like it works currently is what i'm suggesting.

You are saying that multishot for shotguns should work how it already does. When multishot procs, it fires a full extra set of pellets. At 120%, it always fires two whole sets of pellets and has a chance to fire a full third set of pellets. See the above example with the Hek for a better explanation.

[DarkMark]

You are saying that multishot for shotguns should work how it already does. When multishot procs, it fires a full extra set of pellets. At 120%, it always fires two whole sets of pellets and has a chance to fire a full third set of pellets. See the above example with the Hek for a better explanation.

 

Multishot for shotguns currently work differently than it does for rifles and pistols. 60% multishot will increase the number of pellets shot by 60%, everytime. What TC wants it to do though, is act like pistol multishot. You can find more info on shotgun multishot on the wiki page.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Multishot_%28Mechanic%29

[Onite]

Multishot for shotguns currently work differently than it does for rifles and pistols. 60% multishot will increase the number of pellets shot by 60%, everytime. What TC wants it to do though, is act like pistol multishot. You can find more info on shotgun multishot on the wiki page.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Multishot_%28Mechanic%29

He's still a dumbass, i'm sorry. Because theres a reason DE made multishot work like that for shotguns, cause its the only way multishot can work for shotguns. Think about it. If you tried to make it the same as a pistol, you could have a 100% chance and only shoot a garanteed, one more pellet per shot. Or it could be two full shotgun blasts in one shot. Which is x2 of the original pellets. Which is what we have now. If it was by chance like other guns, it would be like a 50% chance to shoot double damage. Which is both OP and doo doo at the same time. Because hey, double damage, but hey, inconsistent unreliable roller coaster damage.

[LasersGoPewPew]

He's still a dumbass, i'm sorry. Because theres a reason DE made multishot work like that for shotguns, cause its the only way multishot can work for shotguns. Think about it. If you tried to make it the same as a pistol, you could have a 100% chance and only shoot a garanteed, one more pellet per shot. Or it could be two full shotgun blasts in one shot. Which is x2 of the original pellets. Which is what we have now. If it was by chance like other guns, it would be like a 50% chance to shoot double damage. Which is both OP and doo doo at the same time. Because hey, double damage, but hey, inconsistent unreliable roller coaster damage.

i don't have hells chambers, so i wouldn't know exactly how it works or any multi shot based mod as a matter of fact, i thought it worked like the rifle multishot where it would just add another pellet per shot.

[MJ12]

Multishot for shotguns currently work differently than it does for rifles and pistols. 60% multishot will increase the number of pellets shot by 60%, everytime. What TC wants it to do though, is act like pistol multishot. You can find more info on shotgun multishot on the wiki page.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Multishot_%28Mechanic%29

 

No, multishot for shotguns works identically to multishot for rifles and pistols.

 

If you were around Pre-Update 7, you could test this by using multishot pistols (the Afuris, Aklato, and Bronco). If you stuck a 70% multishot on the Afuris, its bullets shot would go from 2.00 to 3.4, and you'd fire at least 3 bullets per trigger pull (with a 40% chance of a 4th). If you stuck the same 70% MS on a Bronco, your bullets shot would go from 8.00 to 13.6.

 

Multishot has always been a straight-up multiplier to the number of shots fired per trigger pull, the only thing is that because of the lack of rifles and pistols with multiple shots (while all shotguns have multishot) it's relatively hard to figure this out post UD7.

Edited May 5, 2013 by MJ12

[Onite]

No, multishot for shotguns works identically to multishot for rifles and pistols.

 

If you were around Pre-Update 7, you could test this by using multishot pistols (the Afuris, Aklato, and Bronco). If you stuck a 70% multishot on the Afuris, its bullets shot would go from 2.00 to 3.4, and you'd fire at least 3 bullets per trigger pull (with a 40% chance of a 4th). If you stuck the same 70% MS on a Bronco, your bullets shot would go from 8.00 to 13.6.

 

Multishot has always been a straight-up multiplier to the number of shots fired per trigger pull, the only thing is that because of the lack of rifles and pistols with multiple shots (while all shotguns have multishot) it's relatively hard to figure this out post UD7.

This is completely untrue. Multishot for rifles and pistols is a % chance of you firing an extra bullet a shot. 50% would be a coin toss that every time you fire a shot, you could fire 2 bullets instead of 1 at the same time. On shotguns you get a static number of pellets per shot. 50% multishot on shotguns means every shot you get +50% more pellets. so instead of firing 6, you fire 9 every single time. There is no chance or gamble. I know its a percent chance with rifles and pistols because it wouldnt make sense to fire 50% of a bullet every time you fire. You shoot a bullet and a half? No. I know for sure because with my lex and Lato, when i first had the mod, some shots i did 70, some shots i did 140 or 70x2. I was seeing this the more often i upgraded the mods. It even says on the mods that it does this.  Heres a direct quote from the wiki itself "

The Barrel Diffusion mod increases the chance of firing one additional round per shot fired by 20% per rank (does not consume additional ammunition).

At 120% it has a 100% chance to fire one additional round(2 rounds/shot) and a 20% chance to fire two additional rounds(3 rounds/shot)."

[Buddlschlumpf]

<p>To summarise the OP wishes: Instead of spreading the advantage of multishot equally over all shots you make, he wants to concentrate the increased DPS only on the shots that proc the multishot.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>With no changes to the mod stats, this doesn't change sustained dps but randomizes the spread of the damage.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I don't see any point in doing this. Why would you want to make damage more random? You already have crit for that (and even there better concepts exist).</p>

[Halad]

If anything, buff split chamber to be able to reach 100% so over time nobody has to deal with insane rng when going for one shot kills. 90% at max makes using the latron silly at higher level areas as you'll usually kill with one shot unless the proc fails.

Again, only an issue because at max rank the chance for double is so much higher than the chance for single. Wouldn't be an issue at 105% or even 120%.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Halad

[MJ12]

This is completely untrue. Multishot for rifles and pistols is a % chance of you firing an extra bullet a shot. 50% would be a coin toss that every time you fire a shot, you could fire 2 bullets instead of 1 at the same time. On shotguns you get a static number of pellets per shot. 50% multishot on shotguns means every shot you get +50% more pellets. so instead of firing 6, you fire 9 every single time. There is no chance or gamble. I know its a percent chance with rifles and pistols because it wouldnt make sense to fire 50% of a bullet every time you fire. You shoot a bullet and a half? No. I know for sure because with my lex and Lato, when i first had the mod, some shots i did 70, some shots i did 140 or 70x2. I was seeing this the more often i upgraded the mods. It even says on the mods that it does this.  Heres a direct quote from the wiki itself "

The Barrel Diffusion mod increases the chance of firing one additional round per shot fired by 20% per rank (does not consume additional ammunition).

At 120% it has a 100% chance to fire one additional round(2 rounds/shot) and a 20% chance to fire two additional rounds(3 rounds/shot)."

 

No, it's completely true. Again you were not around before Update 7 where this was more obvious due to the Aklato/Afuris firing 2 bullets instead of 1, and they didn't change the multishot code. Multishot was always a flat multiplier to the number of shots per trigger pull. The only thing you're doing is mistaking how multishot behaves when you have a non-integer number of shots per trigger pull (instead of rounding it has an X% probability of firing an extra shot, where X is the non-round number bit of the number of shots you fire per trigger pull). It is easy to get non-integer pellets from shotguns and that extra pellet behaves just like the extra multishot bullet.

 

So downvote me for telling the truth all you want.

Edited May 5, 2013 by MJ12

[plznohurtme]

No, it's completely true. Again you were not around before Update 7 where this was more obvious due to the Aklato/Afuris firing 2 bullets instead of 1, and they didn't change the multishot code. Multishot was always a flat multiplier to the number of shots per trigger pull. The only thing you're doing is mistaking how multishot behaves when you have a non-integer number of shots per trigger pull (instead of rounding it has an X% probability of firing an extra shot, where X is the non-round number bit of the number of shots you fire per trigger pull). It is easy to get non-integer pellets from shotguns and that extra pellet behaves just like the extra multishot bullet.

 

So downvote me for telling the truth all you want.

I'm just hoping you guys realize you're saying the same exact thing (mathematically speaking).

[MJ12]

I'm just hoping you guys realize you're saying the same exact thing (mathematically speaking).

 

Over enough time assuming no overkill, sure.

 

But firing say, 2 bullets 50% of the time and 4 bullets the other 50% of the time has slightly different behaviors compared to firing 3 bullets 100% of the time. It's more desirable in some cases (if an enemy will die to 3 bullets, this means the first behavior will have 50% of the enemies die in one shot and the other 50% take two shots) and less desirable in others (if an enemy will die to 4 bullets,  this means the first behavior will have 50% of the enemies die in one shot and the other 50% take two shots, while the second will have 100% of enemies take 2 shots).

[Tetsmeha]

i don't have hells chambers, so i wouldn't know exactly how it works or any multi shot based mod as a matter of fact, i thought it worked like the rifle multishot where it would just add another pellet per shot.

 

If you've never tried it why are you trying to make a suggestion on something you haven't even read up on or experienced? My god it's like American Politics.

 

[Onite]

No, it's completely true. Again you were not around before Update 7 where this was more obvious due to the Aklato/Afuris firing 2 bullets instead of 1, and they didn't change the multishot code. Multishot was always a flat multiplier to the number of shots per trigger pull. The only thing you're doing is mistaking how multishot behaves when you have a non-integer number of shots per trigger pull (instead of rounding it has an X% probability of firing an extra shot, where X is the non-round number bit of the number of shots you fire per trigger pull). It is easy to get non-integer pellets from shotguns and that extra pellet behaves just like the extra multishot bullet.

 

So downvote me for telling the truth all you want.

 

Dude. Its not complicated. nomatter what previous version made whatever apparent or had bugs. etc.

 

Pistol and rifle multishot is a chance multiplier.

 

Shotgun multishot is a static % of extra bullets per shot.

 

 

 

Shotguns:: + percent extra bullets per shot.

 

Pistol/rifle:: Percent chance to get extra bullets per shot.

 

125% chance is always fire 2 bullets with a 25% chance to fire an extra 3rd. Its a percent chance. Chance being a key word.

 

 

All shotgun multishot percentages are not a chance, they are 100% every time. its instead a measure of just how many you get every time.

 

The fact that you ignore the wiki completely shows me that you're just argueing to argue when this is completely true and not a matter of opinion, it is something completely measured and tangible to experiment in game for solid reassurance. So just stop. If you really believe that multishot works the exact same, then please. Please show me from evidence in screenshots in game where you fired one and a half bullets with a rifle or pistol. Because i'd certainly would love to see it. Or show me you shooting two and a quarter bullets. (125%)

[TehJumpingJawa]

Onite, all weapons do behave the same.

 

Here's a thought experiment to demonstate it.

 

- Imagine a shotgun that fired only a single pellet per shot.

- Give it 50% multishot; how does it behave?

- 50% of the time it'd fire a single pellet, the other 50% of the time it'd fire 2 pellets.

- Notice this behaviour is exactly how you perceive pistol & rifles to function at present

 

Another thought experiment:

 

- Imagine a pistol/rifle that fired 2 bullets per shot.

- Give it 50% multishot; how does it behave?

- it'd fire 3 bullets per shot.

- Notice this behaviour is exactly how you perceive shotguns to function at present.

 

Pseudo code for how multishot works for all weapons:

 

float fractionalProjectileRollover = 0.0f;

 

void fire(Weapon weapon, float multishotMultiplier) {

 

float fractionalProjectiles = weapon.projectilesPerShot*multishotMultiplier + fractionalProjectileRollover;

int wholeProjectiles = floor(fractionalProjectiles);

fractionalProjectileRollover = fractionalProjectiles-wholeProjectiles;

}

 

:edit:

 

Notice there is no random chance; it is completely deterministic.

Fractional projectiles roll over to the next shot until there are enough to form a whole projectile.

Edited May 6, 2013 by TehJumpingJawa

[Qeveren]

That's a silly thought experiment.  If a shotgun fired one pellet, then it wouldn't need a different mechanic from regular multishot. XD

[Argoms]

That's a silly thought experiment.  If a shotgun fired one pellet, then it wouldn't need a different mechanic from regular multishot. XD

The point is to show that it doesn't have one, it just behaves differently in practice because it fires more than one bullet per shot.

[Frootloup]

If a shotgun had a 50% multishot mod and only fired one pellet, it would fire one and a half pellets, every time.

[Qeveren]

The point is to show that it doesn't have one, it just behaves differently in practice because it fires more than one bullet per shot.

"50% of the time a shotgun fires 100% more pellets" and "100% of the time a shotgun fires 50% pellets" average out to the same number of pellets over infinite trials, but they're not identical behaviours and on any single trial can differ by +/- 50%.

 

Edit: Theoretically, the first scenario could result in never seeing more pellets, but I doubt the RNG would be -that- cruel. :)

Edited May 6, 2013 by Qeveren