A Comment On Rng From Devstrem 46

[ARavenousPanda]

From my perspective (and experience) people do NOT mind the "grind wall" as long as the whole grind isnt dependant on RNG. There are only 3 frames i know people hate acquiring, and 1 that i have heard is annoying, and they are hydroid, mesa, vauban and nekros. The problem with vauban is the limited acquisition. Relying on alerts that will most likely appear when its in-accessible, and the frequency of chances to acquire it. Compared to other frames (rhino/volt) makes the whole ordeal frustratingly slow, and there is no feeling of appreciation, as it doesn't feel like you have worked for it. For Nekros, its the wait time between running keys. Whilst not too frustrating it does slow down play and acquisition in comparison to the general grind of other frames, especially for primarily solo players. For hydroid, having to grind a specific enemy that doesn't have a 100% drop chance of a piece you need, for a chance to run a mission that may not drop the piece you require makes payers frustrated with he lack of control [i had to do 14 runs ._.]. For mesa, i heard the problem is waiting on a specific invasion reward to earn a chance at running the boss, not as bad as hydroid, but pretty close. Atleast you can try and acquire his key components at any time, not reliant on number of players also trying to farm her.


the overarching problem isnt the grind, its the consistency. if i had to run a mission 3 times, to run another mission once to get one part of three components required to make a key, people wouldnt mind. They know whats expected, and at the end of the day they know the only rng to rely on is the piece dropping or not. but relying on rng after rng to rng? might be a bit much. I get that you need to create new ways to make acquisition harder (to promote people spending plat [i do this sometimes]), but it doesnt feel rewarding and thats the problem. If there was always a mutalist co-ord available, and you recieved it after doing the mission, but could only drop 1 per day per player people would be less annoyed at the mode of acquisition as it is transperant what must be done to acquire her.

 

what do you guys think? 

 

 

TLDR;the issue isnt the grind as such, its the consistency and lack of effort->reward. 

[geninrising]

I absolutely agree. Working for something is always acceptable, however the layered RNG is the primary complaint. It's the same with void rewards. To get a void key: RNG to see if a key is the reward, then more RNG to see what Tier of key, then more RNG to see what type of Key, and finally more RNG to see if you get the part you need from said void key. Sometimes one layer of this RNG is removed because said node only provides t4 keys for example, however the layered RNG problem still persists.

[Lukap99]

Mesa is an @$$ to grind without some guarantee that I'll always get the parts I need from at least three tries.
RNG is bad enough. I don't need a double stacked RNG sandwich.

I wish Warframe was about the journey, and not the destination.

[Othergrunty]

Hydroid is actualy off that list now, since Vay Hek can now be fought regulary without the need of his key again, which leaves only Argon as the annoying component to get in order to create him.

But if you run T1 Def missions you would get them regulary.

 

For the rest, i think besides the luck/RNG chain involved in getting the components, it's also the "must have" aspect which creates annoyance for many players.

The "must have" aspect is that when something new comes out, almost everyone wants to get their hands on it ASAP. This is often made worse because players might allready have everything that interested them (and leveled away the rest they didn't want to keep).

Therefor the game had recently been a bit more hollow and routine for them, but THEN something new is out. Something else. Something different. They "MUST HAVE! IT!! NOW!!!".

Of course not everyone gets into this mindset.

 

Still those who do, jump into the game after the patch and find out that they have to wait days or weeks to get it. They become frustrated. The game allready requires 12 hours to craft the components and an additional 3 days for the whole Warframe to finish. So any additional time piled on it just adds to the frustration, since they want the new, the different.

 

This is one of the downsides of the game being in continues development under the Open Beta label currently. There are a lot of players who allready pushed through the majority of the current content and therefor jump at everything new.

The fact that new Warframes are also promoted in the livestreams weeks before, only enhances the "must have" aspect.

 

However while this is a problem for Veterans, i think what the devs have in mind (and also stated in a devstream if i remember right) when putting these grindwalls in place is that it won't be as much of  a problem for new players.

Because new players jump into the game and get an overview of what they can get and when they can get it. So for them the grindwall is still everywhere and on everything all the same.

While establish players can jump everywhere to get all Warframe parts they need in a few minutes, new players must reach new plants first, to kill bosses, to unlock new planets. Etc.

That all, so they can get the Warframes they want. That's not so different from the grindwalls veterans face when new bosses and Warframes are put into the game.

By the time they actualy have the equipment they need to fight these bosses they might have easily got the key components to run them a few times.

 

The only teeth grinding Warframe for new players to get would still be Vauban, because of the higher RNG involved in getting the right alerts and they are much more time restricted than Infested outbreaks.

 

Ironicaly, as soon as a player managed to get all of the drops from the new bosses they want, the frustration will often die down and getting more of the components becomes trivial.

Suddently they look at the inventory and see those 12 Vauban parts, the 30 Alad V coordinates or 9 Detron parts.

It will still be nice getting them, since it means having them to spare (in case they might sell the Warframe/Weapon but maybe want to build it again later) but they aren't as gun ho on getting them NOW.

 

Of course there is also an economic aspect involved in putting newer Warframes behind grindwalls. Which i don't want to judge here, since it's part of how the game is financed.

 

In the end. I think the Grindwall itself has it's fair share of problems and i can't say how it could be eased without making everything too easy to get, since the game needs to have the grindwall in order to encourage some people to pay platinum for content, in order for the game to survive. Same goes for the RNG wall.

 

But i think what adds another layer to the problem besides consistency, is that everytime something new is released with "RNG wall" elements, that the "must have" aspect is pushing on players patience aswell.

Like an invisible younger simbling poking them in the back.

 

But again, i can't think of anything how this could be fixed easily.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Othergrunty