Increase Energy Cost Of Iron Skin

[ghoul1999]

This will help as Rhino is too overpowered

[Voidstalker]

No.

 

There are more OP abilities than Rhino's Iron Skin.

[Domeinator]

As a heavy Rhino player, 50 is the right amount compared to his other abilities. Without it current cost, its would be harder to be an effective tank.

And thats another thing you need to keep in mind, Rhino is a tank, so he NEEDS to be able to use Iron skin often enough, but not every other second.

[stacey69]

If the game created waves of mobs at the right time a Rhino had to use Iron skin it would be ok at 50 energy. At the moment they can Iron skin most of the time with no fall off. Lots of unbalanced stuff in game at the moment but I would rather see the game balanced around the frames and their abilities not out right nerfs as people hate nerfs.

 

God damn underline. How I get rid of it LOL!

Edited May 5, 2013 by stacey69

[Depar]

If the game created waves of mobs at the right time a Rhino had to use Iron skin it would be ok at 50 energy. At the moment they can Iron skin most of the time with no fall off. Lots of unbalanced stuff in game at the moment but I would rather see the game balanced around the frames and their abilities not out right nerfs as people hate nerfs.

 

God damn underline. How I get rid of it LOL!

 

more reply options i think

 

and no dont make it cost more, let it be less long

[Domeinator]

more reply options i think

 

and no dont make it cost more, let it be less long

 

But even fully upgraded, its only lasts about 15 seconds

[Feldgrep]

So I remember people saying the devs were gunna make alt skills eventually. How about one for rhino that boosts his speed? Same with frost. Different animations, same effect

[Sniktch]

I ride a Rhino.

 

I approve either increasing its cost or reducing its duration - ATM, it is just flat-out TOO good.  Especially when you do some math and figure out 4 players with Energy Siphon, maxed Iron Skin, maxed Streamline, and maxed Continuity can quite literally keep Iron Skin on infinitely.

[GrimmLiberty]

Sniktch,

 

I might be inclined to agree with your post, as you at least reasoned it out.

However, the reason I do not is simply answering the question; How many Other abilities can you say the same thing about, given a 4 man group with the right power combos? Quite a few I think. 

Edited May 5, 2013 by GrimmLiberty

[Depar]

1 Mag 3 excalibur instantly hit 36000 dmg :3 even more with focus and im only to 95% sure its 12 javelin

 

12x3x1000

and with focus lvl5

 

12x3x1300=46800 . . . now thats quiet a bit dmg or?

[Feldgrep]

1 Mag 3 excalibur instantly hit 36000 dmg :3 even more with focus and im only to 95% sure its 12 javelin

 

12x3x1000

and with focus lvl5

 

12x3x1300=46800 . . . now thats quiet a bit dmg or?

*licks lips* Kril... payback time Mother $#%@$

[Depar]

it would be also an intersting experiment to bring jackel's shield down

[Sniktch]

Sniktch,

 

I might be inclined to agree with your post, as you at least reasoned it out.

However, the reason I do not is simply answering the question; How many Other abilities can you say the same thing about, given a 4 man group with the right power combos? Quite a few I think. 

 

 

Actually, there are NO other abilities that can offer a team permanent invulnerability with zero downtime, zero failure rate, and absolute predictability.  Yes, you can spam insane amounts of damage on a single target.  With the setup above, a team of four Rhinos is COMPLETELY UNKILLABLE.  Forever.  No chance of error.  No window of opportunity.  No reliance on orb-drops.  Just flat immunity to everything.  The closest comparisons would be Trinty's Link and Nyx's Absorb - both of which cost more energy and have MUCH shorter durations, leaving you reliant on drops to keep them applied.

 

Let's show the math:

 

Iron Skin costs 50.  4x Energy Siphon supplies 2 EPS - 25 seconds to repay the cost.  Streamline reduces the cost to 39 - 19.5 seconds to repay the cost.  Iron Skin ranked up to max gives you 15 seconds.  Continuity gives you +4.5 seconds = 19.5 seconds, 20 if it rounds up.  So you're either gaining 1 or at flat rate, every cycle.

 

Link costs 75.  Streamline reduces it to 52.5 = 26-ish seconds to regain the energy.  Link caps at 8 seconds.  Continuity increases it to 10.4 seconds - 10 if the game rounds down.  Leaves a 16-second gap.

 

I could math-out Absorb, but fairly obvious it will have an even longer gap, as Continuity doesn't affect it and it costs more energy at base.

 

Now, this IS fixable - reduce the base time on Iron Skin by 1, increase the base energy cost by 1, or just make artifacts not stack.  But the point remains: right now Iron Skin is way too valuable for its cost.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Sniktch

[PaperAlien]

I had proposed to make Iron Skin grant high damage resistance (60-90% was my estimate) instead of flat-out invincibility (stagger/poison immunity etc would still remain). Was not received very well.

[Adidasprime]

Right now iron skin is the only thing keeping Rhino viable.

Given the absolute optimal setup, how often do people actually run 4x Rhino for anything? Probably almost never since it's completely unnecessary.

Having 1 frame that can keep itself alive - when the majority of the game AoE nukes rule supreme - isn't OP. Any group of 4 nukers alternating their attacks could both clear areas faster and be just as safe since entire rooms of enemies will die.

 

And Trinity can easily cast energy vampire and keep her energy up indefinitely - without having 4 energy siphons running.

[gamefreak9149]

You make his first, third, and fourth skills better and worth the cost. Ill be glad for a change to Iron Skin but at the moments its the only one worth using 99% of the time.

 

edit: It really is one of the most broken skills in the game, i cant deny that. He just has nothing else worth using to me and many other rhino players. Just iron skin + heavy melee and sometimes shooting things in the face.

Edited May 6, 2013 by gamefreak9149

[GloriousYellowEmperor]

What, just because you don't like it it should be nerfed?

Why look at one skill? When you look at a frame, you have to look at ALL the skills.
You can't say "OH IRON SKIN OP NERF" without looking at the other 3 and seeing that there really isn't much there for Rhino, ASIDE from Iron Skin.

If his other three skills were more viable? Hell, I'd understand a nerf to Iron Skin.

But until then its the only thing keeping him going.

[Worira]

I ride a Rhino.

 

I approve either increasing its cost or reducing its duration - ATM, it is just flat-out TOO good.  Especially when you do some math and figure out 4 players with Energy Siphon, maxed Iron Skin, maxed Streamline, and maxed Continuity can quite literally keep Iron Skin on infinitely.

 

shush you're exposing our secret rhino magic

[HexCaliber]

Op you are forgetting this game supports solo play, as such warframes have to be balanced with that in mind, while missions scale when in co op they probably don't scale enough, as they are cakewalks with half decent frames. However, we have been told a "hardcore" mode is coming for those that want more challenge, I would wait for that to get here before suggesting iron skins cost makes it over powered.

[PhantomMarch]

The reason a lot of abilities are overpowered is because of the current energy system with no cool downs for a lot of abilites. Energy drops are shared in the party. If one member spends 100 energy and kills 10 mobs with it. Chances are high you are able to get those 100 back. So the other 3 people get free energy, which enables them to spam everything.

[SnokyoDrift]

"Hey guys, let's just reduce a frame down to its best skill and completely ignore the sum of every factor that makes this frame unique."

[Sniktch]

"Hey guys, let's just reduce a frame down to its best skill and completely ignore the sum of every factor that makes this frame unique."

 

 

No, let's not - but let's acknowledge that a skill which has the potential to make a frame COMPLETELY INVULNERABLE FOR THE FULL DURATION OF A MISSION has some problems balance-wise.  Rhino has several other good points - best natural armor in the game makes health go further, naturally high shields, Rhino Charge and Rhino Stomp are both strong skills when applied well and ranked-up - Charge does solid damage and moves you surprisingly far when ranked-up, and Stomp is 9-12 seconds of "shooting gallery" for yourself and your teammates.  Or to put it another way...Rhino Stomp is "STOP! Hammer time."

 

Lame pun aside, the Rhino shines in my experience - and not JUST because of Iron Skin.  But Iron Skin puts it past "Good" into "broke."

[winterau]

Frost is better than Rhino in everything except that Rhino has Iron Skin making himself personally invulnerable. Snow Globe on the other hand is absolutely fantastic for the whole group for 2 out of 3 enemy types. Plus the Frost can actually do some damage with his other abilities.

 

I am really not sure how much value is gained by nerfing a class for some hypothetical, extreme perfect play that makes 1 person invulnerable. What about the other 3 people? What if they go down? It seems myopic to focus on this one potential aspect and use it to call for a nerf.

 

Rhino Charge is ok, but I'd rather an Excal do it because they will actually kill stuff instead of knocking it down for a second. Rhino Stomp is extremely meh for an ultimate, it doesn't last long enough and it is generally better for a frame with actual damage abilities to just kill everything instead.

[Soulfighter]

No.

 

There are more OP abilities than Rhino's Iron Skin.

 

lol no, only trinity is on par with rhino, in a game like this where weapons deal muuuuch more damage(especially aoe melee weapons) than powers (which are only effective against low and mid lvl weak ennemies),  the most powerful powers become the ones which allow you to use these weapons without any restraint. Iron Skin allows you to be invincible for more than 2 min straight (even mroe since you'll loot orbs) which allows you to face and destroy absolutly any ennemy in the game, every bosses, ever strong or weak ennemies, their skills, their damages, their numbers, their stuns, their HPs; none of that matters.

 

Press 2 , jump in the middle of lvl 60+ ancients, toxics, disruptors, 5 melee charge attacks, they're all dead, move on to the next 10.

 

Yet i don't really want it to be nerfed, i'd rather have other warframes's powers be relevant to the game instead of being accessory like most are.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Soulfighter

[Yefrign]

50 is a good amount since his energy pool at 30 is only 150...

 

this means you can cast it 3 times beofre running out of energy IF you dont use anything else... his ground slam and his Stomp cost FAR more and if you dont manage your skill use you'll be empty on energy when you really wish you had some...

 

Rhino is a SLOW class... he hasnt got the mobility nor stun resistance (if he isnt using Iron Skin) to be able to keep up with the other frames... let alone leg it when things get ugly

 

Loki can simply stealth and sprint past trollololol everywhere he goes and leave everyone for dead.

 

Iorn Skin is simply amazing when used right. save teammates, get though sticky situations and keep yourself alive when you are 5 miles behind everyone because they all decided to sprint ahead because you are a slow poke...

 

if you ask me there is nothing wrong or OP about this ability... sure it can FEEL OP when you use it but who is glad that you had it after the mass army intent on having a Rhino sandwitch is gone?