Irkalla Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) "There is a dark presence hunting down Tenno whom have brought death to our enemies. It has a mis-guided sense of justice and sympathizes with those who seek to destroy our society. It's powers are those of our own and the armor it wears is cloaked in shadow - it must be destroyed." Many players want PVP in this game. In fact, for quite a few newbies around Region chat and the forums, PVP is one of the first things to be thought of. PVP sounds an easy enough feat at first, but there is a glaring issue: All of the frames and weapons are balanced around PVE. It would take more trouble than it's worth, from a design standpoint, to implement PVP and balance all frames for both PVP and PVE play. So I've thought of a decent compromise. Allow us to build the Stalker warframe. With the Stalker warframe equipped, when we queue up for missions, we queue up to show up in a random player's (who is around the same level as us) mission as the Stalker. Our objective would be to kill the target player. Target players would only be targetted if they have killed a boss recently. For this reason, Stalker warframes would automatically start at level 5, because that's usually the level people who have killed their first boss will be. In addition to this, perhaps one's objectives as The Stalker can be complicated with other objectives or anti-objectives, such as "Kill No Other Tenno," "Do NOT Kill X Player," or "Prevent Tenno Objectives From Being Completed by Completing Them Yourself." Perhaps the lore could be straightened out with why the stalker exists, and perhaps as we level our Stalker warframe, bits and pieces of the story around why the stalker exists, who his employer is, and general lore about the stalker can be revealed to us. Perhaps the Stalker is a rogue Tenno, hired by enemy forces? Perhaps The Lotus employs him to weed out softies? No one really knows, but this would be a decent way for us to find out. How would we get the blueprint in the first place? I feel like a good idea would be to have the Stalker have a chance to drop the whole warframe, already completed, upon killing him outright. Not merely defeating him, but KILLING him and preventing him from leaving the mission. The transition between AI Stalker and Player Stalkers would have to be gradual, as we'd have to give time for players to acquire the warframe from killing the AI stalker, and then have them go out and get killed and drop frames too. If metrics suggest that there aren't enough stalker kills happening, then AI stalker could be reintroduced temporarily. If they, on the other hand, suggest that too many stalker incidents are happening, then the drop rate could be lowered temporarily. I believe that, perhaps, an event could kick off Player-Controlled Stalkers, to help the community-at-large acquire stalker warframes. The warframe itself SHOULD come with its own free slot that disappears if you sell the warframe, as players shouldn't be denied an entire aspect of the game just because they don't want to sell a warframe or purchase warframe slots. I also might suggest a Mastery Rank requirement to either get a drop for or to use the frame. We don't need braindead Stalkers out there, do we? Also, it would give a bit of exclusivity to the Stalker club. "Why should any of this happen?", some of you might be asking. I, personally, see that this would solve many problems. Firstly, it would introduce a much awaited PVP aspect into the game. Secondly, it would create a PVP environment that can be balanced SIMPLY by performing balance and quality of life changes to only ONE warframe. Thirdly, this solves the problem of the Stalker being dumber than a sack of bricks. And finally, this helps enrich our gaming experience in Warframe by giving us a bit of lore to chew on. By far, I think the solution with the greatest implications is the second one. Since we only have one frame that will be used for PVP, only ONE frame needs to be balanced around PVP. The dream of PVP would suddenly be a lot less surreal and would be very much closer to being within grasp, would it not? I hope I've opened up a decent discussion about PVP today. Like the idea? Write your congressman! Call your doctor! Edited May 6, 2013 by Irkalla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemisfortune Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 No PVP 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 They've discussed a kind of Stalker warframe idea already. It ended up being kinda scrapped but all around not a bad idea. A duel feature is in the minds of DE and that's as much as PvP they'll do for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irkalla Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 No PVP 2013. I mentioned the magic word, queue downvotes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetergentPod Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I mentioned the magic word, queue downvotes! If you know you'll get downvoted why post it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract_The_Pariah Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Reminds me of dark souls - thy should do it! Edited May 6, 2013 by Gaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 If you know you'll get downvoted why post it? Because people voice their opinions/suggestions. No one should really care about the downvotes system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikab Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 "Many players want PVP in this game Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irkalla Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 If you know you'll get downvoted why post it? Because I know there's a solution that will give us PVP and will allow the majority of us to be happy with it. What I posted is most probably just a bit longer than a 2 minute read, and I see it as rather closed minded to just read a thread title and come in trashing on something one hasn't even read. But forgive me if I'm wrong about the person I quoted not bothering to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 This is a p2p game, which I think complicates things quite noticeably. Along with the huge potential variation of skill in players, this would not go well. You might get a relatively new player and have an easy time, or you might get popping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 General scenario: Player chooses to play as Stalker, player joins random game, at least one Tenno has supercharged [enter deadly weapon here] fully modded out. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irkalla Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Reminds me of dark souls - thy should do it! The people I've talked to about this seem to all say that. Have I missed something having not played it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetergentPod Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Because people voice their opinions/suggestions. No one should really care about the downvotes system. Well the thing is. He is voicing an opinion/suggestions that has been brought up quite a few times and has been very unpopular. PVP has always been hated and not wanted in this game currently. There a difference between bringing up a new suggestion/popular suggestion and bringing up something that has been shot down many times and is generally not popular with the majority of the players and DE themselves currently. Because I know there's a solution that will give us PVP and will allow the majority of us to be happy with it. What I posted is most probably just a bit longer than a 2 minute read, and I see it as rather closed minded to just read a thread title and come in trashing on something one hasn't even read. But forgive me if I'm wrong about the person I quoted not bothering to read. The thing is in the FAQ, if you read it, it clearly states that PVP isn't a concern at the moment. PVP currently is nonexistent in the mind of DE and majority of the players. The DE wants to sharpen and perfect the PVE aspect of the game. Since the game is still Beta with many things that need improvising and fixing. Then even after the game is release there will be plenty of contents to be release. There is currently no room for PVP. Which is why many people trash talk whenever a PVP thread appears. Edited May 6, 2013 by ThePieBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrifeMk.7 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 What about if PVP and PVE are separated and/or make some abilities behave in a different way or even do different things in PVP? Ps. I don't really care for PVP but I know many people who have been turn off because of the lack of it :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crow-k Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Well, I think your idea is actually too complicated. PVP is perfectly balanced as is and needs no help. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 The people I've talked to about this seem to all say that. Have I missed something having not played it? Dark Souls has a system where anyone can invade your game at any time when you're online. It gave the game a feeling of death and readyness. In the case of warframe, it could work as you will S#&$ your pants when against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irkalla Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) General scenario: Player chooses to play as Stalker, player joins random game, at least one Tenno has supercharged [enter deadly weapon here] fully modded out. GG That's why I suggested the mastery requirement. I know mastery ~= skill, but at least you weed out the people that have no basic understanding of the game. Well, I think your idea is actually too complicated. PVP is perfectly balanced as is and needs no help. Have a nice day. I'm liking the well worded and logical argument, combined with the irrefutable supporting details here. EDIT: Whoops, figured there was some automerge system here. Isn't that native to vBulletin? Edited May 6, 2013 by Blatantfool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Well the thing is. He is voicing an opinion/suggestions that has been brought up quite a few times and has been very unpopular. PVP has always been hated and not wanted in this game currently. There a difference between bringing up a new suggestion/popular suggestion and bringing up something that has been shot down many times and is generally not popular with the majority of the players and DE themselves currently. This is true, however people must keep discussions civil and not just bash others for their ideas (not saying anyone has done it yet here). The downvotes should have no matter in the whole scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rett Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 pvp has been talked a lot watch the stream please they explain that they don't really want PVP. can't we have a single PVE game now days? so many other PVP games... why bring this one to the bandwagon and not let it be an interesting PVE experience? i am not here to trash i am here to raise a question and in the mean while point out that the Dev's already stated they are not really into PVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCashew Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Great, you came up with a solution for nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetergentPod Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 This is true, however people must keep discussions civil and not just bash others for their ideas (not saying anyone has done it yet here). The downvotes should have no matter in the whole scheme of things. As true as that is. The voting system give us a clear view of how popular an idea/suggestion is within the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildJuice Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Dark Souls has a system where anyone can invade your game at any time when you're online. It gave the game a feeling of death and readyness. In the case of warframe, it could work as you will S#&$ your pants when against it. 1 v 4 not cool though. However, if you still keep stalker's immunity to spells, would be quite nice to 1v4 with all your skills while theirs are useless used on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 pvp has been talked a lot watch the stream please they explain that they don't really want PVP. can't we have a single PVE game now days? so many other PVP games... why bring this one to the bandwagon and not let it be an interesting PVE experience? i am not here to trash i am here to raise a question and in the mean while point out that the Dev's already stated they are not really into PVP It's mainly the popularity and the possibilities in warframe. While I am personally in neither side of it, I can see why. The fast based ninja style action is a nice PvP concept. But since warframe is mainly all PvE, then people start asking/demanding or begging for PvP to put in, and the PvE fans are not pleased by this motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irkalla Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) It's mainly the popularity and the possibilities in warframe. While I am personally in neither side of it, I can see why. The fast based ninja style action is a nice PvP concept. But since warframe is mainly all PvE, then people start asking/demanding or begging for PvP to put in, and the PvE fans are not pleased by this motion. Stalker will exist whether or not it is controlled by a player. I don't see the big deal with letting a player at the helm. So far, nobody has even tried to argue that issue, just trashed it because it was a PVP idea. If you don't want to play the stalker, nothing should change for you, for the most part. You will still play PVE and occasionally get raided by the Stalker, just a less competent and more imbalanced one than if a player were controlling him. On the flip side? People wanting PVP gain EVERYTHING. Don't you think you're being a bit selfish, PVP hate crowd? I guess I should have just kept the three letter word out of it. Edited May 6, 2013 by Irkalla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altale Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 PvP duels are coming soon but I think that's the farthest they'll probably go in terms of PvP for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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