Bp ? Alerts Should Be Scheduled, Once-Per-Day On A 24 Hr. Timer.

[Maikky]

Why do I feel like all the good stuff like glavie / orkins only pop up during the morning on weekdays when people are at work or school .

[Argoms]

Why do I feel like all the good stuff like glavie / orkins only pop up during the morning on weekdays when people are at work or school .

Because this game is played by people all over the world, so it's always during someone's school/work time, and these people tend to end up posting on the forum.

[PapaKicks]

My fix from my own thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/32165-suggestions-irritations/

[sUGGESTION]

Turn ? Alert missions into random rewards

 

Right now ? missions are no different than a standard credit mission. People look at the reward and decide if they want to do it or not. If it was completely random (but from the same loot table), we would have a chance at rare bp's, artifacts, etc - every single ? mission. If you're missing a specific bp (*cough glaive*) people would do the ? missions every time until they got their reward. Or maybe they'll do every single one, hoping for potatoes.

[Tsualla]

No, no, and No.

 

Let's just say they did implement a fixed alert time for this, and coincidentally it is on my daily away-from-home routine. Then I rant on the forum not being able to get the reward every time. Now, What are you going to do with my schedule? Force me to make am abrupt change?

 

Random seems to be a fair ways to this. It might be on your leisure time that the alerts do appear, it might not. Don't be like just because of few alert that you missed makes the whole system seems wrong. You have another chance, another day. 

[Gekker]

Because this game is played by people all over the world, so it's always during someone's school/work time, and these people tend to end up posting on the forum.

If there are always people that end up disappointed, its not a good system. Don't you think?

Is it fair? -Yes.

Is there a way that no one ends up disappointed? -Maybe.

 

So how about we start an discussion to find a way that does make no one feels like he/she missed out on something?

 

I think that is the intention of the OP. Even though I don't think that a 24h Alert Mission with an BP reward is the best idea anymore. But then again, 2 or 3 random 30min Alert Missions that ~75%will miss out on is not a good idea either.

 

Random BP/Artifact rewards at the end of ? Alert Missions as mentioned by Akivoodoo may be a good idea.

[Argoms]

No, no, and No.

 

Let's just say they did implement a fixed alert time for this, and coincidentally it is on my daily away-from-home routine. Then I rant on the forum not being able to get the reward every time. Now, What are you going to do with my schedule? Force me to make am abrupt change?

 

Random seems to be a fair ways to this. It might be on your leisure time that the alerts do appear, it might not. Don't be like just because of few alert that you missed makes the whole system seems wrong. You have another chance, another day. 

No, this isn't once every 24 hours. This is every alert lasting 24 hours. Unless you don't go on warframe for an entire day, there is no way to miss the alert anymore.

 

If there are always people that end up disappointed, its not a good system. Don't you think?

Is it fair? -Yes.

Is there a way that no one ends up disappointed? -Maybe.

 

So how about we start an discussion to find a way that does make no one feels like he/she missed out on something?

 

I think that is the intention of the OP. Even though I don't think that a 24h Alert Mission with an BP reward is the best idea anymore. But then again, 2 or 3 random 30min Alert Missions that ~75%will miss out on is not a good idea either.

 

Random BP/Artifact rewards at the end of ? Alert Missions as mentioned by Akivoodoo may be a good idea.

As I said, this isn't my ideal either- mine would probably be a completely random per-squad award at the end of every mission. However, it's still better than the current system.

[cidiantoby]

I'm not going to dress this up or be polite about it: Your reasoning is terrible.

 

"Why? Because that is not how the system should be"

Why should it be like this? Because it should. That's definitely convincing.

 

"There would be no point to the alerts if they were 24 hours long."

Why not? They wouldn't pop up as often as now, but when they did, they'd be available to everyone, and not just the people who live in a certain country.

 

"Second, they like others have said, are to be random"

Is this a good thing? 

 

"You want it this way to benfit your lifestyle but not what would benfit the game."

And then you attack the person instead of the suggestion. This doesn't discriminate against any time zone. Tell me, why is this system good for the game?

 

Fine i wont be polite either. I now am back to a computer to kinda give a better response before i have to go out the door again.

 

 

"Why should it be like this? Because it should. That's definitely convincing."

Yes it should be. This is how it has always been. It doesn't have to be convincing but there is a phrase that goes "if it isnt broken. Don't fix it"

 

 

"Why not? They wouldn't pop up as often as now, but when they did, they'd be available to everyone, and not just the people who live in a certain country."

It isn't about if it is available to everyone. That thought process is that of someone being an entitleist. The point of the ? alerts is to be a RARE alert. What part of it being rare if it is for 24 hours so everyone can get it. Hell while we are at it i am entitled 1000 extra plat, 1 million credits and all the rare mods that i cannot get in my normal play time. 

 

 

"Is this a good thing?"

Yes it is. It is boring when things are predictable  Like last Friday  We all knew there was going to be an update. but the fact that we didnt know when it was going to be released kept us on our toes and provided excitement. Now would you rather the game be boring, scheduled  and predictable? or would you rather have a little chaos factor included?

 

 

"And then you attack the person instead of the suggestion. This doesn't discriminate against any time zone. Tell me, why is this system good for the game?"-

 This comment coming from someone who dissected my post and attacked what i had to say. After I gave my opinion on the matter. Including the fact that I do to work very long hours (i still am at work). Which i might add that i know for a fact that i will miss out very many during harvest (and play time yet it doesn't bother me). I also gave my time zone too (CST). The system in place does not discriminate anyone. It is a matter of chance. It is good for the game because it gives us a goal to achieve and ONE DAY get that item we soooo much want but cant get. So we keep playing in hopes that we are there on that alert happens. And when it does we feel rewarded for getting it. Go to a 24 hour system and everyone's reaction is.... "meh"....

 

The OP's post was infact all about him. If it wasn't he wouldn't given his quasi life story about his daily life and how he misses out on stuff so his suggestion is about how it would benefit him rater than if it would benefit the game. That is the basis of the suggestion he gave us. It is something that would help him out rather than the game in the long run. What would be the point if everything is handed to us on a silver platter? I think about what would be better for the game and a 24 hour alert with a ? reward is not one of them. 

 

PS... I realized in my last post that this forums is very unforgiving on mobile users. Thats why i cut my response short

Edited May 6, 2013 by cidiantoby

[Twentynnine]

I'll try to keep this simple.

 

No.

 

You say that you want it to fit your life, but that's not what it's about. If they do that, there would be no real reason for anyone to buy the items. If nobody buys the items, The devs don't make money. If they don't make money, the game stops. The game stops, you can't play. you can't play, you can't get items.

 

[Spiffmeister]

The problem with your plan is it makes reactors/catalysts way to accessable. There'd be no point in buying them if they were on 24hr timers.

 

While I do think catalysts/reactors might be too rare for some players, I don't see the point in making them overly accessable. The alert system is also still very beta according to DE.

 

You get given plat when you sign up to the game, buy a potato with that if you need one desperatly.

[Argoms]

 

I'll try to keep this simple.

 

No.

 

You say that you want it to fit your life, but that's not what it's about. If they do that, there would be no real reason for anyone to buy the items. If nobody buys the items, The devs don't make money. If they don't make money, the game stops. The game stops, you can't play. you can't play, you can't get items.

I'll say this again- I will not spend money on this game unless this system is changed. I know I'm not the only one. Why are items like the dark sword only available through alerts, and not even the market? That's obviously not going to get people to buy them, because they can't. Most people spend money on:

Frames

Weapons

Slots

Potatoes

Cosmetics

 

Of these, only one weapon (glaive) can be gotten from the market and alerts. The weapons obtainable through alerts are not obtainable through platinum, so what money? 

 

Fine i wont be polite either. I now am back to a computer to kinda give a better response before i have to go out the door again.

 

 

"Why should it be like this? Because it should. That's definitely convincing."

Yes it should be. This is how it has always been. It doesn't have to be convincing but there is a phrase that goes "if it isnt broken. Don't fix it"

 

 

"Why not? They wouldn't pop up as often as now, but when they did, they'd be available to everyone, and not just the people who live in a certain country."

It isn't about if it is available to everyone. That thought process is that of someone being an entitleist. The point of the ? alerts is to be a RARE alert. What part of it being rare if it is for 24 hours so everyone can get it. Hell while we are at it i am entitled 1000 extra plat, 1 million credits and all the rare mods that i cannot get in my normal play time. 

 

 

"Is this a good thing?"

Yes it is. It is boring when things are predictable  Like last Friday  We all knew there was going to be an update. but the fact that we didnt know when it was going to be released kept us on our toes and provided excitement. Now would you rather the game be boring, scheduled  and predictable? or would you rather have a little chaos factor included?

 

 

"And then you attack the person instead of the suggestion. This doesn't discriminate against any time zone. Tell me, why is this system good for the game?"-

 This comment coming from someone who dissected my post and attacked what i had to say. After I gave my opinion on the matter. Including the fact that I do to work very long hours (i still am at work). Which i might add that i know for a fact that i will miss out very many during harvest (and play time yet it doesn't bother me). I also gave my time zone too (CST). The system in place does not discriminate anyone. It is a matter of chance. It is good for the game because it gives us a goal to achieve and ONE DAY get that item we soooo much want but cant get. So we keep playing in hopes that we are there on that alert happens. And when it does we feel rewarded for getting it. Go to a 24 hour system and everyone's reaction is.... "meh"....

 

The OP's post was infact all about him. If it wasn't he wouldn't given his quasi life story about his daily life and how he misses out on stuff so his suggestion is about how it would benefit him rater than if it would benefit the game. That is the basis of the suggestion he gave us. It is something that would help him out rather than the game in the long run. What would be the point if everything is handed to us on a silver platter? I think about what would be better for the game and a 24 hour alert with a ? reward is not one of them. 

 

PS... I realized in my last post that this forums is very unforgiving on mobile users. Thats why i cut my response short

Something having always been the case doesn't mean it's right. See- racism, gender equality, torture.

 

The alerts remain rare, but they don't depend on timezone. If you didn't start playing the day the glaive came around, you may not get it for months for all I know. And then straight to hyperbole with "give me 50 dollars of free stuff now plz".

 

Your attitude effectively amounts to "deal with it because I do". 

 

Why do you equate giving everyone a fair chance to a silver platter? 

 

Getting an alert item isn't something to be proud of. It's like winning a lottery- you did it! Except that was luck and nothing more. How is it rewarding to know that some day, the item you want will magically appear to you, and you have literally no control over this apart from devoting your life to watching for it?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Argoms

[AsteriskCGY]

I don't think people getting 1 blueprint a day is out of the question

[KiraA]

Really controversial topic... -.-

 

First of all, i agree that it could be placed on a hour timer and such.

 

But from what i see, the only one that care and comment on this are people that actually pay for items so they dont care. thats what i see.

[cidiantoby]

@Argoms. Look man. If you dont like it you dont have to play the game simple as that. I may come off as " deal with it attitude" but your coming off as "I want free stuff faster and better". 

 

I laughed at your first line you gave me. THIS IS A GAME! It is something you should enjoy. Simple as that. And you typically pull the race and sex cards. That stuff was broken. How does acts against human rights equal how the alert system is now in comparison??? All your arguments from now on is invalid because of that comment. 

 

 IF it were to depend on the timezones than by your suggestion we should have 24 seperate ? alerts to be fair to everyone. BUT WAIT!! What about the people that sleep during the day and work the grave yard shift. What about them? Do they loose out because you want it to happen at set times around 7 EST, which is about when they are at work? yep. The system in place is not to discriminate anyone. those alerts can happen at ANYTIME!... Rather than argue about when they happen. How about you go back a couple weeks and take note when the ? alerts do happen and comeback with actual facts rather than how it isnt fair. Record when they happen... They release all that now on twitter of facebook now. Ohh and there is an app for android now too. 

 

 

 The fact you sit here and argue with others cause you dont see how it is fair is ridiculous. How is it fair to those who do want to support the development of the game financially to help it progress into something better, from people with the "gimme gimme gimme" mentality? 

 

You can quote me with what ever reply you can come up with. Unfortunately it will do no good because it is pointless to argue about this and i will cease to return to this thread. Have fun with the game and good luck to you. 

Edited May 6, 2013 by cidiantoby

[RAinbowDucky]

No.

There is an alternative; you buy platinum and get it through the market.

[AsteriskCGY]

No.

There is an alternative; you buy platinum and get it through the market.

But those prices are really bad. 

[Argoms]

 

 IF it were to depend on the timezones than by your suggestion we should have 24 seperate ? alerts to be fair to everyone. BUT WAIT!! What about the people that sleep during the day and work the grave yard shift. What about them? Do they loose out because you want it to happen at set times around 7 EST, which is about when they are at work? yep. The system in place is not to discriminate anyone. those alerts can happen at ANYTIME!... Rather than argue about when they happen. How about you go back a couple weeks and take note when the ? alerts do happen and comeback with actual facts rather than how it isnt fair. Record when they happen... They release all that now on twitter of facebook now. Ohh and there is an app for android now too. 

 

 

First, this isn't my suggestion. MY suggestion is to make every alert reward random instead of determining them the moment they're spawned. 

 

Second, the idea is to have the alert last all day. One alert. The entire 24 hours. Unless you don't play for 24 hours, there's no way to miss that.

 

 

No.

There is an alternative; you buy platinum and get it through the market.

Tell me, where's the market option for the dark sword, heat dagger, ceramic dagger, jaw sword, heat sword?

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

Alerts give an opportunity for people to get items unavailable through credits for free, without making platinum worthless by giving them away too easily. It also is a means to keep paying players coming back to get items they can't buy. Yes you will miss alerts through daily life, I've missed both glaive alerts and an orokin in the last few days alone, but I don't let it bother me because they will come again eventually. 

Your suggestion to make alerts one a day for 24hrs is actually worse than the current system, yes everyone gets a shot at it but if you get something you didn't want you have to wait a whole day before being able to get anything else. It also completely undercuts their business model, if it was almost impossible to miss alerts then every active player on the day a helmet skin comes up are lost potential customers for buying the skin. The time alerts are active for makes it almost certain that not many people will get it so it feels worthwhile when you are free but it doesn't ruin DE's business.

[Effusion-]

When I consider the current alert system my initial emotional response is, "games should conform to player's schedules, not the other way around.  A game will never convince me to instantly drop everything in real life because it suddenly decided that I have to play now to access whatever content/item."  I have to say with a little chagrin that it took a bit of mulling to get over that mindset.

 

I think the problem with having a predetermined reward is mostly psychological.  Logically, it's an advantage that saves me time by letting me see my reward before deciding if I should play through the mission to get it.  However, when I have to find out what the reward for a randomly generated time limited mission is by looking outside of the game then it feels like that game is imposing on my real life and making demands of my time.

 

One possibility is to change the way the system is presented.  A well known example was that in beta World of Warcraft had an experience penalty after making X amount of progress every day, and the testers hated it.  This system was reframed as an experience bonus (rested experience) without actually changing any of the mechanics, and the testers suddenly liked it.  It may seem silly, but presentation can be the difference between making something enjoyable and making it a frustration/annoyance.

 

For Warframe's alerts I would suggest removing the ? and letting players see what the reward is in-game instead of having to check twitter or the forums.  This makes the system more self contained for players who aren't going to monitor the game all day so that they feel the system saves them time rather than that it makes demands on their schedules.  I think that adding more rare items to the game and so giving players a better chance of getting something hard to obtain through an alert, even if it's not the specific thing they wanted, will also make it seem more satisfying (I'm guessing that this will happen with prime versions of the various warframes, and more items like the glaive).  Finally, adding an auction house where players can buy and sell those rare drops will make them seem less unobtainable even though it doesn't actually add more of them to the world.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Effusion-

[Gregio]

People are trying to equate random with fair.

Random isn't fair.

The alerts are random in a way that, if, on your free time, you decide to dedicate yourself to Warframe, you're much more likely to get good stuff, unavailable on the credits market, or some items not even available with platinum (dark sword, etc).

I see many people saying how this system could "use some work". I don't think it could. There ARE fixed alerts. After every livestream, and now we have Operations that give out good prizes, even though Steve said others probably wouldn't be AS good as the first.

The Alerts system isn't THE go-to way to get rare items, that's platinum. For those other items, like random daggers, dark sword, etc, they're supposed to be rare. Random usually leads to rarity when the chance of occurrence is under 2%.

So, I understand where many people are coming from, for example, while I was away at night today, I missed an Aura Trinity Helmet. Even assuming this item wasn't buyable with platinum, if I had a trinity I would be upset about it, but if it was a 24hr alert and everybody had it, well, then in a game without PvP or competitive leaderboards, how can I be better than the next guy with a trinity, or at least different from him?

But the magic of the system is, another helmet can pop up tomorrow, or next week. Or next month. It's random. In the past 3 weeks, I have found 2 heat daggers, a dark sword and a dark dagger, playing less than 2 hours a day, so those "rare" things aren't that hard to get, two of the items were on Saturday.

I don't think the alert system needs any work. What I think should happen is more alternative ways to get certain items should be available, through Operations and fixed post-livestream alerts or new events.

One interesting idea would be to increase the RNG % chances for rare items during the weekend. I think that would make a lot of people happy.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Gregio

[Argoms]

My suggestion's always been that every alert reward should be random per-squad (unless it's a fixed reward, like post-livestream), by the way. Not the 24 hour schedule which I ended up trying to defend because people were completely misreading it and claiming it does things that it doesn't.

 

Now, as for my suggestion (every alert's reward is randomly generated at the end per group of players instead of decided on creation). Doesn't that seem better for everyone? Nobody can complain about time zones/missing certain alerts anymore, rewards are random per group. It also gives the player the feeling of more control on whether or not they get the alert item they want, even if the items have exactly the same frequency as before. Rare remains rare, but it doesn't leave the annoyance of "Oh, I was at work/school/etc. when it happened".

[Tazurin]

Yes it should be. This is how it has always been. It doesn't have to be convincing but there is a phrase that goes "if it isnt broken. Don't fix it"

 

That's a terrible line of thinking.

 

Just because "that's how it has always been" doesn't mean that's how it should stay. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

 

If it wasn't "broken" this discussion wouldn't exist in the first place. The system is not as good as it should be.

 

I feel like a handful of you are operating under the fear that the slightest change to the alerts to improve them will make the game collapse into itself and explode, as if the shoddy alert system was the single thread holding this game together. (It isn't.) If a change to alerts really goes so poorly, they can be changed back, it's not the end of the world. But by refusing to change, you're refusing the chance to improve on what we have. Do you honestly think this is the best the devs can do?

 

If you really feel old quotes have any weight in a discussion like this, then have this one:

 

"He who rejects change is the architect of decay."

[CaptGentlemen]

The Alert ? Missions are completely random if you miss something tough luck a lot of people miss out on a lot of things the point is it's fair to everyone. As mentioned from others timezones and personally schedules can be different from someone else's in the world as well. In a game lore point of view having them random makes sense due to the fact that these missions are supposed to happen at random times since they have to do with in game enemies having some sort of mission or objective and you trying to stop them at a moments notice. The items from alert missions you are speaking of can also be purchased from the market with real money and if you don't want to spend real money on it you have to deal with the game mechanics for a F2P game. I personally have missed out on certain alert ? missions for items I really wanted but I'm not going to complain about since it happens to everyone. The game is in no way forcing or punishing you for not doing something that you have a choice in. Just because you miss out on something should not be classified as punishment to the player seeing as how you will have a chance to do it in the future anyways, for free, again. I do on the other do understand that the game is in beta and there are things that can be worked upon but having Alert ? Missions be completely random on timing is what makes it rewarding.

[SFkenny]

Yup, I missed the Glaive BP and I was pretty pissed.

 

But hey, I checked the Twitter one morning and an Orokin Catalyst BP was on the Alert as a reward. Snapped that sucker up. Eventually I will either find a BP on an alert for Glaive or somehow come by the money to purchase Platnium for one at some point. But the point is, some of you are taking this all way too seriously. It's a game, everybody. Try to have some fun, allright?

[suadumpy]

It's not an alert if you know it's coming! D=

[Spiffmeister]

I'll say this again- I will not spend money on this game unless this system is changed.

Have you read Catch-22? You're saying "if I could get X for free easily I would pay for it" which makes no sense.

People are trying to equate random with fair.

Random isn't fair.

Randomness, by nature, is the fairest system there is. There are no favors and no advantages. The system is not designed for any one person.

A system designed for no man is a system designed for all men.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Spiffmeister