Bp ? Alerts Should Be Scheduled, Once-Per-Day On A 24 Hr. Timer.

[Inez]

Have you read Catch-22? You're saying "if I could get X for free easily I would pay for it" which makes no sense.

Randomness, by nature, is the fairest system there is. There are no favors and no advantages. The system is not designed for any one person.

A system designed for no man is a system designed for all men.

 

It simply rewards people with dedication.  

And no job.  

Or family.

Or friends.

 

So if you're an OCD out of work hermit, the alert system is extra fair.

 

The alert system is fine for a beta, but I doubt they'll carry it over to actual release.  It's just a simple way to do things for now.

[Spiffmeister]

The alert system is fine for a beta, but I doubt they'll carry it over to actual release.  It's just a simple way to do things for now.

DE have said countless times now that the Alert system is a beta, they are working on ways to refine it. If people have viable or sensible suggestions to fix it, fine, make the suggestion. Suggestions like "make it a definite drop for everyone" isn't a viable fix. It removes randomness, makes the game unrewarding (you don't feel good when you happen to be on for that alert) and turns the game into a chore (basically creates scheduled play).

 

I'm not denying that potatoes seem to be extremely rare at the moment, but again. Sensible fix. RNG is basically at the core of Warframe.

 

Also imagine how many hours those dedicated people sat there staring at a screen (and occasionally rule-34ing Warframe) without that alert popping up. They wasted their lives, you didn't, so the system hasn't really rewarded them at all.

[neKroMancer]

The purpose of Alert is to create sense of dynamic in the game - a purpose which it has been fulfilling quite nice for a long time. However, the reward system is the problem - No one like RNG to screw with their life.

 

These are my thoughts.

1.Suggesting that Alert with reward that player want (cosmetic item, weapon specific to alert, Orokin BP) to be 12-24 hours long isn't really going to help with the issue. There will be players who go out of town, travel aboard, work on graveyard shift (or 24-48 hours shift like me) - They will miss the alert even with 12-24 hours duration.

2. Suggesting that it's fine as it is isn't fine at all. When gaming requires players to be within 30-50 minutes range from their PC all the time or miss the reward - it's too for a game to ask that kind of dedication from players.

 

Alert system needs to be.

1. True to the original purpose - dynamic, random event.

2. Possess the RNG quality that doesn't make half of the playerbase rage every time things show up when they're sleeping. 

 

I think giving players another currency specific to alert would be a good solution. Each alert with? gives varied amount of this currency (RNG) and encourage players to play these missions (the current trend is GBTB when you got duplicate stuff - bad decision making). Player can use this currency to buy items that can only be bought with this currency (and platinum). However, the price of item should be a little high in order to promote playing/farming alert and create incentive to buy with platinum.

[SkyFish.]

I like the random system since it keeps me guessing about what I'll get next when an alert comes up.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

There are 24 hours, 1440 minutes or 86400 seconds a day.

 

Considering, this game is accessible by almost everyone across the globes, someone will be falling asleep or waking up every second.

 

The most valuable rewards from the alerts are things like orokin catalysts and reactors which can alternatively be bought with real cash.

 

They are thus a source of revenue for DE.

 

Assuming everyone who plays have a level of impatience,

 

every time someone misses the alert that gives them the reward they want,

 

the probability of them paying real cash to buy it increases

 

and the probability of DE earning some revenue increases as well.

 

If DE were to adopt a completely capitalist view, they would make use of the statistics of number of people logging in a day and put the alerts in times periods where most people are asleep or away.

 

The current system however makes use of a Random Number Generator (RNG) system to handle this.

 

It is thus very very unlikely for DE to accept your proposal to make the alert system cater for at least 86400 different groups of players.

[Artaban]

I agree that there are design oversights with the alert system

 

Issues

 

1. Alerts are meaningless

 

There are tons of alerts throughout the day, some mission on some planet. All of them are to perform some generic tasks and give credits as rewards. There are so many of them that players quickly learn to (checking twitter) do only the ones with ? as reward and ignore the rest.

 

2. Designed as an interruption to life

 

No other games does this ever. Yes there were stuff like in-game events, popups giving information, but they took place over a period of time (like days). Alerts requires immediate playing, now! I've read forum threads on how people stopped their activities and rushed home to do alerts. No, just no.

 

3. Alert twitter and notification apps are to frustrate you

 

Notifications defeats the purpose of an "alert". It tells you exactly what it is and what the reward is. And if you have a life, the message is just mocking at you. "Hey there's an orokin catalyst/reactor/weapon blueprint you can get! Now! Too bad you're working/studying/out with friends/exercising/sleeping".

 

 

Suggestions

 

1. Reduce amount of alerts. Give good rewards

 

Reduce amount of alerts to maybe 1 a day, even once every 2-3 days. Rewards would be a substantial amount of credits, specific resource (i.e. if I'm raiding a rubedo depot I'm expecting rubedo), 10-20k xp (again weapons depot give weapons xp, warframe factorygives warframe xp), and related blueprints and items.

 

2. Let players discover and maintain alerts

 

Alerts will only indicate a specific planet and faction. The alert mission will only be unlocked if a player plays through the regular mission first. Invites and pugs will work as long as it's unlocked by the host. That's also where clans come in. Players in clans will unlock the mission for the entire clan if they find it. Clans (for everyone in the clan) and players (for themselves) can extend the alert duration up to 6 hours with a new item "temporal lockdown" after the mission is unlocked. Rewards will only be shown to the clan after a clan player completes it. Random players and pugs will never know the reward, but people will probably post it in the forums anyway.

 

3. Specific alert mission maps

 

It's no fun to run the same maps for alert missions. Alert missions should be somewhat special.

 

 

Objectives

 

Alerts should be meaningful. Even if there are no blueprint/orokin rewards, the changes would make more people run them (and able to run with time extension), if only to get a good amount of resources or xp to quickly level new stuff. Alerts would also encourage player interaction/clan play, since it'll be tedious and costly for a single player to attempt to unlock the alert mission. I've seen people keeping alerts open for others in the alert notification thread. I think that's something extremely positive that we should encourage (but disabled at this moment).

Edited May 7, 2013 by Artaban

[SkyllianBlitz]

A couple of questions for both sides of the debate.

 

1. Everytime there's an Orokin Reactor/Catalyst alert, do you expect to be able to get it?

 

2. For a certain amount of hours played, how many Orokin alerts do you expect to get?

 

It's a question of opportunity and certainty and finding a balance that's fair to players and also to DE.

[Rabcor]

i don't agree with your solution, but i do agree with your reason.

[Tangerine]

If they were up 24 hours a day then they wouldn't make any money.There'd always be an active BP alert 24/7 which is pretty ridiculous if you think about it, and it would remove all meaning of the word 'alert'.

 

Though the system is pretty bs atm because it's completely RNG. Here's an idea:

 

"Tenno Overwatch"

 

When you log off, you can make your Tenno watch over a planet in exchange for a credit deduction every hour (couple thousand). The more planets you watch over, the more the cost is exponentially (watch over Sedna+Ceres+Pluto = 20k per hour).  Make BPs have a preferred area of occurring (i.e. Glaive BPs happening on Pluto, Ceres, Sedna whatever).

 

If an alert occurs on a planet you're watching over, you automatically gain the reward; the cost of watching needs to be high so players just can't watch over everything and get everything, whilst at the same time it becomes a mechanic that's rewarded to end-game players who have the credits to afford it. Plus it makes credits useful.

 

So if you feel a desired BP alert might occur that day, you can turn on Overwatch on a couple planets, go to work, go to the brothel afterwards and come back with a few less credits and hopefully some new blueprints.

[Windbow]

If they were up 24 hours a day then they wouldn't make any money.There'd always be an active BP alert 24/7 which is pretty ridiculous if you think about it, and it would remove all meaning of the word 'alert'.

 

Though the system is pretty bs atm because it's completely RNG. Here's an idea:

 

"Tenno Overwatch"

 

When you log off, you can make your Tenno watch over a planet in exchange for a credit deduction every hour (couple thousand). The more planets you watch over, the more the cost is exponentially (watch over Sedna+Ceres+Pluto = 20k per hour).  Make BPs have a preferred area of occurring (i.e. Glaive BPs happening on Pluto, Ceres, Sedna whatever).

 

If an alert occurs on a planet you're watching over, you automatically gain the reward; the cost of watching needs to be high so players just can't watch over everything and get everything, whilst at the same time it becomes a mechanic that's rewarded to end-game players who have the credits to afford it. Plus it makes credits useful.

 

So if you feel a desired BP alert might occur that day, you can turn on Overwatch on a couple planets, go to work, go to the brothel afterwards and come back with a few less credits and hopefully some new blueprints.

 

 

That's an interesting suggestion. Weird. But interesting. A little out of the box. I wonder if the current system can handle this - quite a few things to track.

 

Iinm, DE_Steve did mention he was not entirely happy with alerts as is but that's going to stay for now. Think of it as a 'placeholder' event thing. In a few months time, we can revisit this topic. I'm not entirely happy with current alerts either but I understand that better things are in store. We need to wait and see for now.

[Gibblemung]

Overwatch is an interesting idea.

 

On the original topic, I believe that the random number generator/luck is acceptable. Remember that almost every BP that drops in the ? missions is also dropped by enemies.

 

There are a few exceptions. Ultimately, though, if you play long enough, you'll get everything except exclusive bits (Prime 'frames, Vandal weapons).  I think missing alerts and having the convenience of paying for what you want is acceptable, from both a playing perspective (makes you want to play more) and a business model (If you must have that, you can get it).

[EdgeKasim]

i agree that overwatch idea is an interesting idea.

 

but about the current alert system, ill agree taht its a little off, BUT it seems alot of the free players have completely forgotten what the alert ? rewards actually are.  the rewards are basicly a system that allows us non plat players to obtain plat items, if they became way too common or so easily obtained then what would be the point of having them in the shops at all?

 

i mentioned in some long forgotten topic havint the ? actually be a totaly random reward rather than the same thing for everyone, would annoy an even larger number of people BUT it would be better in the end as you would get MULTIPLE chances for the thing you want in a day rather than just spying on the alert twitter untill the one you want turns up.

 

ofcourse if they just removed all plat related rewards from alerts in general then this topic would never have been started...but im sure youd get people complaining that the plat players would have way to much of an advantage.

 

one thing that i find qute sad is the mentality of people wanting everything to be easy to obtain, whatever hapened to super rare drops that were so uncommon only about 10% of the player base would have said item and would flaunt it, simply because owning one was cause for bragging rights.  i mean heck back when i played vindictus a weapon called the ekinar blades were extreemly time consuming to get so literally NOBODY had a pair...except me, i was the ONLY person on the whole NA server with them because i actually spent the time to get them (i know they werent the best of weps but they werent bad).

 

anywho with all this said because BPs are generally not drops (apart from frame parts), its safe to say that having them as extreemly uncommon rewards from these alerts is the best alternative.  if they decide to make alerts only drop plat BPs then i hope they become a little rarer, as i wouldnt want to alienate the people that actually support the game by buying plat, and then they should make the unique wep BPs random drops from factions, much like the mods.

 

i say this and assume some people will think im some hermit with no life/friends etc, no im not get, off your moron horse.  i have a job, fortunately i work from home, i run on GMT, and i am usually so busy that even if i have the game open i can only sit on the region chat, but, i have no real problem with the alerts at current as theyre more like a system to throw free players a bone so they dont feel the game is pay to win, give the devs some credit guys theyve done a dam good job doing something that other companies scoff at.

[Scanation]

If the alerts were scheduled, platium items would be worthless. You could get everything for free. So I perfer it like now.

[PaperAlien]

If the alerts were scheduled, platium items would be worthless. You could get everything for free. So I perfer it like now.

Not really. Only the time is scheduled. The actual BP is random, it could be anything from a Heat Sword to a Potato.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

"Tenno Overwatch"

 

When you log off, you can make your Tenno watch over a planet in exchange for a credit deduction every hour (couple thousand). The more planets you watch over, the more the cost is exponentially (watch over Sedna+Ceres+Pluto = 20k per hour). 

If an alert occurs on a planet you're watching over, you automatically gain the reward; the cost of watching needs to be high so players just can't watch over everything and get everything, whilst at the same time it becomes a mechanic that's rewarded to end-game players who have the credits to afford it. Plus it makes credits useful.

This is an excellent idea.

 

The cost of watching/ number planets you can watch will really need a lot balancing/planning but this is a very good idea.

[smithf]

@OP, the main problem, I think, is management of expectations and setting limits towards gaming.

 

You are not the only busy person in the world. We have work, we have family, and we have other commitments.

 

What I find useful is: I don't care about alerts etc unless I am sitting in front of my gaming machine ready to start a mission. Missed alerts? I accept that. It is the trade-off I willing accept to keep gaming stuff sensibly contained. I don't want to receive alerts when I am traveling home, and then possibly rushing which may increase the chance of accidents. I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night to answer alerts, which disrupts the sleep and ultimately affect the next (working) day. And most of all, I don't think it is fair to push the blame to the game as whatever I do, it is ultimately my own choice.

 

Now, I'm not trying to be sarcastic to people who wakes up in the middle of the night to answer alerts however. I'm totally ok with that, as I've said, it is a personal choice. But once we've made that choice, I think we should take up that associated responsibility.

 

May I sincerely suggest (no sarcasm nor ill intent included), that you look for the problem within. And as a possibly unwanted word of advice: you need to limit your gaming (time/influence/involvement). For a start, don't run any of those alert apps/feed when you are not leisurely ready in access of your gaming rig and have at least 15-20 min to run a mission.

 

sigh... I am nagging ....

[PaperAlien]

I think the 24hr alert would work much better if it was also mashed with the "random-for-every-player" (with differing probabilities of different BPs ofc) system. That way DE don't instantly get screwed of profit from Aura helmets because it was that day's BP.

[Gregio]

I'm surprised about all those people talking about "The game makes you be available blah blah" "I wake up in the middle of the night to get X item".

It's a game, with a system for random rewards. It's being taken too seriously. If you're home on a weekend, and you've got the alert app running so you can do an alert if you were doing something else that's one thing. But waking up for that is too much.

The point of the random system is to encourage you to NOT obsess about it. If you miss the item, it might pop up again soon, anyways, in a time you can do it.

Unrelated.
I like the Overwatch idea, but not as an automatic reward. Perhaps issue a challenge to the player that was watching said planet, so, basically a player-oriented alert that expires the next time you log in/out of the game.
You can leave your Tenno watching a planet, you receive a challenge, you come home, launch the game. If you don't want to do that mission for whatever reason, you decline and continue your watch.

[Argoms]

The point of the random system is to encourage you to NOT obsess about it. If you miss the item, it might pop up again soon, anyways, in a time you can do it.

 

No, this would be the case if rewards were random per-player. The current setup does make you obsess over it because you can clearly see every reward on the twitter feed. Since you can see this, you need to make sure that you don't miss it in case it pops up again soon, so you watch the feed more, right? 

[ZWarhammer]

I think alert system is fine as it is. You have to sacrifice either some time from your life or you can get what you wanted to get anyways under 10$, also it's not hard to keep warframe twitter notifications on your phone so if there is an alert with an item you really need you can go do the alert or phone someone who is at home to do it for you. To be fair in the end it's not that hard to get the items you really want from alerts if you just pay attention, and as you do so there will be less and less items you need from the alerts as time goes by.

[Argoms]

No, you have to be ready to sacrifice any time from your life. And seriously- telling someone else at home to go on the computer and do it for you? Not everything in alerts are buyable in the market either.

 

How is a system that encourages this okay? It's as if some people have minor Stockholm Syndrome based on how they're justifying the system (Others have good points about how the alerts system can be beneficial, but the majority...).

[Salganos]

The current alert system is very frustrating.  I can completely miss exceedingly rare items by eating supper, voiding my bowels, or taking a shower, not to speak of all three in a row, and I have.  The current system is $&*&*#(%&, and favors having absolutely no life above anything else.

 

It is so frustrating that when I almost missed a catalyst at 5 in the morning, then didn't get one anyways because of either a bug or somehow ending up in the wrong alert (damn sure I accepted one with a "?", and that should've been the only one with a "?"), I made a very whiny thread about it, against my better judgment.

 

I enjoy this game and all, but between missing rare items set on unreasonable timers, getting endlessly staggered to death (rather lousy ninja if you ask me) by a single charger because I either missed my charge timing or the controls decided to just not work (what kind of ninja doesn't reliably run/duck/slide/jump on command?), having mission after mission completely ruined by an impossible to defeat assassin (outside of bugs, and then it takes 20x the time to kill him than what he needs to unavoidably kill me), and such god-awful netcode (sometimes to the point of mutual invincibility) whenever I decide to not play solo ... it's frustrating.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Salganos

[Hydraflux]

There's no way to please everyone. I like it random, and even if you miss something, it will probably happen again, or just spend those few dollars and buy it.

 

That drastically decreases my will to "spend those few dollars" and buy it. Being frustrated after missing a BP might result in rage-buying it for some, but it turns me off to playing the game in general. If I miss a BP I really wanted thanks to a stupid reason, I'll feel pretty lethargic towards the game, not wanting to even start it up for a few days, which might lead to uninstallation. Buying the glaive for $10 because you missed the alert just feels and sounds awful. Anyway,

 

 

I agree with this. The current system does need some work, and a better one would be a great idea. However the way presented on this topic does not seem like a good idea. It cannot be made too easy to get anything specific or there would be no reason to pay for anything. The system should be changed, but I cannot think of a way to do it, and I don't think the current suggestion is a good one.

 

This makes the most sense to me. The Alert system as it is, is pretty crappy. However, the OP post doesn't sound like a very good alternative. Getting rid of the randomness factor completely and totally defeats the purpose of the system, and makes it pretty easy to get rare things. I don't have any ideas myself, but Overwatch seemed like a step in the right direction to thinking of new and imaginative ways to restructure the alert system.

[Gibblemung]

Salganos. Like smithf said, the point is to relax the anxiety you feel when 'missing' something. Because it will come back up again. And again. And again.

 

Did you know you can block chargers? It uses a bit of stamina, and they're briefly stunned in perfect headshot range.

Stalker is a rare event that is supposed to challenge the limits of your play.

Playing solo is much more difficult than having people play with you (and yes, now and then, we wind up with a laggy host, and the code -does- try a migration to a more stable connection when it detects this).

 

My suggestion: Take a brief step back, only do the alerts in the time you have available/set aside for gaming anyway, and don't even look at the alert feed. Enjoy the game (and alternate ways to play, like stealth or speedrunning), rather than the loot table.

[Creavyer]

i kinda of agree with a scheduled alert system but not like the way you want it to be available

instead of annoucing these event right as they happend, maybe they could make a daily-3day-7days scheme they would tell you

when/where & rewards for the event that would be kinda of nice but other then that i also like the currently system.

 

i like that some things are hard to get but hard & random is hardly the same thing so then agian.

No matter how badly you might want a certain blueprint or whatever you might just never get it so what am trying to say is that i would like to see smaller changes happend to the currently system.