Will Re-Leveling A Prestige'd Weapon/warframe Gain Mastery?

[TheSteelPhantom]

English lessons aside (because the devs aren't grading my essays here), you all understand what I'm saying. This topic wouldn't have support, counters, and other ideas if you didn't. At this point, you're just trolling Meitz. Everyone else gets it, counter-argued it, or supported it. You're just arguing the breakdown of English, and it's pointless. Actually contribute to the real discussion, or gtfo. Done with this line of discussion in here, as it's just derailing the real issue.

Edited May 8, 2013 by TheSteelPhantom

[Br0k3nSaint]

Nope, nope still does not follow.

 

For an argument your conclusion must be both necessary and sufficient, its currently neither.

 

Your conclusion is not sufficient for a "thus" or "therefore" because there is an argument missing in between.

I think you understand what this post is about.  If not, we are looking for another way to lvl the mastery so players can play the warframes they want and use the weapons they want past lvl 30.  Can we start looking for some possible solutions about the topic?  

[gell]

I think you understand what this post is about.  If not, we are looking for another way to lvl the mastery so players can play the warframes they want and use the weapons they want past lvl 30.  Can we start looking for some possible solutions about the topic?  

 

During today's stream, they talked about being able to "prestige" your weapons (and warframes, I think). Is that enough for now?

 

(Prestige ranks refer to starting the ranking over again from rank 0, but with slightly modified stats or abilities. In case of warframe, they said they plan on allowing us to change the polarity of one slot each time we hit rank 30, and we can keep redoing the prestige over and over so we could eventually have all the same polarity slots if we wanted)

[Br0k3nSaint]

Oh!  I just got home from work and haven't had the chance to watch the stream. Ill check that out.  Thank you.  This is great news!

[Cleesus]

I completely agree with the OP

[TheSteelPhantom]

During today's stream, they talked about being able to "prestige" your weapons (and warframes, I think). Is that enough for now?

 

(Prestige ranks refer to starting the ranking over again from rank 0, but with slightly modified stats or abilities. In case of warframe, they said they plan on allowing us to change the polarity of one slot each time we hit rank 30, and we can keep redoing the prestige over and over so we could eventually have all the same polarity slots if we wanted)

 

Oh!  I just got home from work and haven't had the chance to watch the stream. Ill check that out.  Thank you.  This is great news!

 

Great news indeed. This sounds awesome. Now... will prestige'ing a weapon/Warframe and re-leveling it continue to grant Mastery? Being able to prestige weapons is AWESOME, don't get me wrong. It gives a LOT more incentive to continue playing a level 30 weapon... But... as for mastery? See topic title. Will I still have to level a ton of crap I don't care about to level my mastery?

[Aggh]

Nope, nope still does not follow.

 

For an argument your conclusion must be both necessary and sufficient, its currently neither.

 

Your conclusion is not sufficient for a "thus" or "therefore" because there is an argument missing in between.

 

 

Your post is neither necessary or sufficient for the purposes of this thread.  Please try again.

 

Also, players don't like having to play with weapons they don't want to level a stat, therefore there should be other ways to level that stat.  I guess having it broken up with numbers confused you?

 

 

 

During today's stream, they talked about being able to "prestige" your weapons (and warframes, I think). Is that enough for now?

 

(Prestige ranks refer to starting the ranking over again from rank 0, but with slightly modified stats or abilities. In case of warframe, they said they plan on allowing us to change the polarity of one slot each time we hit rank 30, and we can keep redoing the prestige over and over so we could eventually have all the same polarity slots if we wanted)

 

We already knew about this.  The real question now is whether or not you gain further mastery for prestiging weapons.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Aggh

[TheSteelPhantom]

We already knew about this.  The real question now is whether or not you gain further mastery for prestiging weapons.

 

Oh, please let this be the case. If it is... topic over, and MANY players, my friends, and myself will be perfect content playing what we like, how we like it, and farming our butts off. 

[Mietz]

Your post is neither necessary or sufficient for the purposes of this thread.  Please try again.

 

Also, players don't like having to play with weapons they don't want to level a stat, therefore there should be other ways to level that stat.  I guess having it broken up with numbers confused you?

 

 

Are you five?

 

Will you next go "nuhuh!" ?

 

The fact people don't like something does not allow for the conclusion that your -particular- solution is necessary.

Do you understand this?

Does the person I asked for an actual argument necessitating his -particular- conclusion understand this?

 

Why can't you just answer the question -why- or do you actually have -no- rational answer for it?

[Aggh]

Are you five?

 

Will you next go "nuhuh!" ?

 

The fact people don't like something does not allow for the conclusion that your -particular- solution is necessary.

Do you understand this?

Does the person I asked for an actual argument necessitating his -particular- conclusion understand this?

 

Why can't you just answer the question -why- or do you actually have -no- rational answer for it?

That's essentially what you're doing. 

 

He already did.  Because people don't like to play with stuff that they don't like.  That is a self evident fact.  When a game requires people to do stuff they don't like, what do they do?  They stop playing.  Thus there needs to be a way for people to get the same end result without having to use weapons and frames that they don't want to buy or play with.  Example: the devs talked about the possibility of a weapon being locked at rank 9.  Do you know what you need to hit rank nine?  202,500 mastery points.  That is 12 warframes 43 weapons ranked up to level 30 and one weapon up to level 15.  To gain that level mastery it is inevitable that a player will be required to use weapons and warframes that they have zero interest in using.

 

It's a self explanatory situation.  Why do you need it spelled out to the last detail?  The problem is simple and evident enough that it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Aggh

[Gaiters]

Example: the devs talked about the possibility of a weapon being locked at rank 9.  Do you know what you need to hit rank nine?  202,500 mastery points.  That is 12 warframes 43 weapons ranked up to level 30 and one weapon up to level 15. 
Represent! 

[TheSteelPhantom]

I have edited the original/first post of this topic to incorporate the developer-discussed "prestige" mechanic, and better outline my train of thought and suggestion. Below is a quote/copy for those contributors to this topic who never re-check the first post for edits (I know I don't sometimes). 

TL;DR: Let me be clear... I'm fully aware that Mastery rank *currently* means nothing past level 4 to get the Hek shotgun... That being said... I still think there should be a way to level it up without having to level up warframes and weapons that I don't care about/have no interest in playing/already know I don't like.
 

 

Edit, 8 May 2013:

 

It was confirmed by developers that discussion is in the works towards some mechanic that will allow players to "prestige" weapons in order to alter their polarity spots. That is, at rank-30, players will have the option to reset their warframe or weapon to rank-0 in order to change one of its polarity spots. The player then has to re-level that warframe/weapon back to 30, at which point they can prestige it again to alter a different polarity spot. And so on and so forth.

 

 

My Question Now: Will a prestige'd warframe/weapon gain a player Mastery rank as it re-levels to 30?

 

 

My Thought Process: Why do players have to level their mastery solely by leveling Warframes whose play-style they hate, or weapons they can't stand using? I realize the game is in beta. However, for a very large portion of it, I have spent my time leveling 7 warframes and 15+ weapons to rank 30, many/most of which I knew from the get-go that I would never use again upon hitting 30 with them.

 

I rushed the warframe/weapon to 30 solely for the Mastery rank, did not enjoy its play-style, etc. Having played the game this long in beta, I already know what I like and dislike. When the game goes live, should players opt to reset their account, there is currently no method of re-leveling their Mastery without having to re-play the warframes/weapons they already know they dislike playing from beta.

 

 

My Proposal / Solution / Suggestion: Utilize the "prestige" mechanic to accomplish 2 things:

 

• 1. It serves its purpose to itself by allowing players to continue playing the warframes/weapons they enjoy most by letting them become more powerful (changing polarity slots) at a slight cost (having to re-level it back to 30).

• 2. Let the prestige mechanic continue to gain the player Mastery rank, as they are further "mastering" that warframe/weapon.

 

From a play-time perspective, it doesn't matter whether a player is grinding out another warframe/weapon, or grinding out the prestige'd warframe/weapon. The only difference, currently, is that continuing to play a warframe/weapon that is already 30 (or prestige'd, once the mechanic is implemented), gains a player nothing towards their Mastery rank, despite investing the same amount of time and effort into the game as another player who is just rushing everything he can to 30.

 

I am certainly not saying to get rid of all warframes/weapons contributing to Mastery rank as you play/rush them to 30. I'm just suggesting/proposing to let me contribute to my Mastery by other means as well. There's more to showing my experience in a game (what Mastery does) than rushing frames and weapons to 30 just for points.

 

 

Thoughts? Flames? Concurs? Disagreements?

 

Edited May 9, 2013 by TheSteelPhantom

[Br0k3nSaint]

+1  Worded well with the information that was given today.

[Drakontis]

Personally, I totally do NOT mind using the variety of weapons in this game. Sure, Boar has horrible ammo economy, just encourages you to use your melee a little more when you don't necessarily need your long gun to dispatch an enemy. Scindo is GREAT for taking out enemies, but it might be wiser to use a Lex on something else that's a little tougher and farther away. I disagree with the "Jack of all trades, master of none" train of thought. When you better learn the game through experimentation and experience, you'll get better at things your'e good at and you'll become proficient in things you may be lacking in. You may excel in sniping, and be pretty decent and close quarters or vice versa. You may be GREAT as a Rhino, but not as good, but still decent as a Nyx or Loki. I for one will be going through all of the weapons and frames I can get my hands on because they're all fun to me so far and while I have some preferences, I will still go back and forth between things. 

[TheSteelPhantom]

Personally, I totally do NOT mind using the variety of weapons in this game. Sure, Boar has horrible ammo economy, just encourages you to use your melee a little more when you don't necessarily need your long gun to dispatch an enemy. Scindo is GREAT for taking out enemies, but it might be wiser to use a Lex on something else that's a little tougher and farther away. I disagree with the "Jack of all trades, master of none" train of thought. When you better learn the game through experimentation and experience, you'll get better at things your'e good at and you'll become proficient in things you may be lacking in. You may excel in sniping, and be pretty decent and close quarters or vice versa. You may be GREAT as a Rhino, but not as good, but still decent as a Nyx or Loki. I for one will be going through all of the weapons and frames I can get my hands on because they're all fun to me so far and while I have some preferences, I will still go back and forth between things. 

 

And you're not at fault for that. It's personal preference. I, myself, have given a lot of warframes/weapons a try just to see if I'd like them. And occasionally swap between 1-2 frames depending on what I'm doing with friends. Nonetheless, your preference to swap back and forth and play them all isn't everyone's ideal play-style. Like I said in my first post... I have now played the majority of play-styles, warframes, and weapons. I know what I like and don't like at this point. Upon release and the reset option, other players in my shoes would prefer to not have to level the same stuff again that they've already decided isn't really for them, but would still like to start over. Hence, the topic. =)

[TGPhoenix]

In line with some of the things that were stated today during the live stream, I agree with the OP's argument. They mentioned requiring high ranks, up to 9, in order to be able to access certain content (assumed to be weapons or warframes researched in the clan dojo). This means that in order for many players to get access to the "new shiny toys", they will have to play through and level up a TON of things that they would otherwise not want to play, just to get there. I believe that as DE expands the content available to the highest ranks, it should also be made relatively possible to attain those ranks without sinking literally hundreds of hours into the game playing with warframes and weapons that I don't want to use, ever.  There are over half a dozen weapons in every single category that I have no interest in using, simply because they aren't as good as the weapons I use now. As of now I have a maxed out gorgon, hek, paris, latron, boar, braton, braton mk-1, lato, kraken, dual vipers, lex, afuris, skana, scindo, fragor, dual ether, dual zoren, glaive. I have also maxed out Excalibur Prime, Trinity, Rhino, Saryn and Mag. All of that together only giving me rank 5 mastery (halfway to 6). I have over 120 hours of play time and I don't see why I should have to spend as much time again power-leveling the rest of the weapons (of which I am only interested in the boltor out of all 3 categories, the others I have no desire to use ever because they simply are not as good of weapons as what I have now) and warframes just to be able to access the next tier of good items. I would gladly put in the time to re-level up weapons and warframes I enjoy playing and are good at what they do in order to continue advancing my rank.

 

On a side note about the power-leveling of weapons in general - just because I have to take a weapon on the mission with me, doesn't mean I have to use it in order for it to rank up to 30. How have I "better mastered the game" by letting a weapon take up a slot and sit uselessly while I do continuous Sedna-Kappa runs without ever pulling it out until it hits 30? Just a point to those that believe it truly represents mastery of the game. For some players that actually use every single weapon, yes it represents their rank of mastery, but for many it only represents how much time they have spent farming while carrying weapons they won't ever pull out & were forced to buy or craft just to get to the future end game content. I feel that I "master the game" more actually utilizing my loadout during a given mission.

[TheSteelPhantom]

On a side note about the power-leveling of weapons in general - just because I have to take a weapon on the mission with me, doesn't mean I have to use it in order for it to rank up to 30. How have I "better mastered the game" by letting a weapon take up a slot and sit uselessly while I do continuous Sedna-Kappa runs without ever pulling it out until it hits 30? 

 

This is another excellent point. You never have to fire a round from your weapons if you don't want to. You can level a pistol from other people killing mobs with their pistols. This accomplishes nothing experience-wise for you, as the player, with that weapon. You mastered nothing but being lazy. This is the perfect counter-argument to those opponents of this topic claiming that Mastery rank measures your experience with a wide variety of weaponry. 

[liavalenth]

This is another excellent point. You never have to fire a round from your weapons if you don't want to. You can level a pistol from other people killing mobs with their pistols. This accomplishes nothing experience-wise for you, as the player, with that weapon. You mastered nothing but being lazy. This is the perfect counter-argument to those opponents of this topic claiming that Mastery rank measures your experience with a wide variety of weaponry. 

I do not like the idea of 'you mastered nothing but being lazy'. A better way of saying it, and a more accurate way of saying it, is 'you obtained mastery without playing with weapons you don't like'. Not using a bad weapon is not being lazy, being forced to use a bad weapon is poor game design.

[TheSteelPhantom]

I do not like the idea of 'you mastered nothing but being lazy'. A better way of saying it, and a more accurate way of saying it, is 'you obtained mastery without playing with weapons you don't like'. Not using a bad weapon is not being lazy, being forced to use a bad weapon is poor game design.

 

Regardless of how it's phrased, the weapon was leveled without you actually playing with it, just having it equipped. This is the opposite interpreted-intention of those arguing about what Mastery represents (your experience with a wide variety). So... that whole argument is destroyed. =)

[liavalenth]

That is true, TheSteelPhantom

[Furyion]

I actualy like current ranking system You earn your rank like training ie grinding olde fashion way .The runners rushers Do not like current system no benefits, and less from zipping thru a battle..no brainer there is it . They are usualy the ones who do try to post against such tougher obsticles as rollers.stuns lazer bars cameras grinding weapons and war frames ect ...Thus trying to alter game play in their favour for a  easy gain . Regular, prestige, and so on ..levels of a war frame would be great addition to the longiviety of a frame. With it though alterations like generation improvements internal and external ,visual, performance.

[TheSteelPhantom]

I actualy like current ranking system You earn your rank like training ie grinding olde fashion way .The runners rushers Do not like current system no benefits, and less from zipping thru a battle..no brainer there is it . They are usualy the ones who do try to post against such tougher obsticles as rollers.stuns lazer bars cameras grinding weapons and war frames ect ...Thus trying to alter game play in their favour for a  easy gain . Regular, prestige, and so on ..levels of a war frame would be great addition to the longiviety of a frame. With it though alterations like generation improvements internal and external ,visual, performance.

 

I fail to see what runners/rush-to-the-end-of-the-map players have to do with this topic. I have already made it clear that I do not mind grinding out a weapon at all, as people will do it anyway simply because it's possible/do-able.

 

With the prestige system announced and already in the works, there is little difference between grinding out the weapon you enjoy playing for prestige, and grinding out weapons/warframes you have zero real interest in. Except one thing. Grinding out the warframes/weapons you don't care about gets you mastery, while grinding out the ones you really like (for prestige) doesn't. Or at least it hasn't been mentioned. 

[Gaiters]

I think that mastery should be given for a weapon/warframe that was rank 30 and is now rank one because of customization. Mastery should only be given for ranking up 'new' that is unique stuff, and warframes or weapons with new polarity slots are unique. 

[TheSteelPhantom]

I think that mastery should be given for a weapon/warframe that was rank 30 and is now rank one because of customization. Mastery should only be given for ranking up 'new' that is unique stuff, and warframes or weapons with new polarity slots are unique. 

 

Agreed. + Bump. Re-named the topic to be more apt since the live-stream prestige'ing confirmation.

[starsoflorin]

Alright, well while I don't really have any beef with the current system (I love all the weapons and frames, but of course I have my favs :D), It would of course be wrong to use my own opinion as a generalization for the entire player base :p.

 

Yes, there really isn't a point to get the mastery level to 4 unless you want to grab the Hek and I know that everyone has their own unique playstyle so grinding out frames/weapons you don't like would be kind of a boring grind in order to be granted the ability to unlock certain content. But...that said I still like the mastery system the way it is. I guess what I'm suggesting is a compromise, obviously some people don't want to grind to unlock certain content, while some want to experience all the weapons, and some are completionists.

 

So maybe we could have two systems? Sort of like an achievement based system that has the sole purpose of saying, "Hey you did everything...good job." and then having the mastery system which would facilitate the unlocking of additional content based on just playing the game your way, rather than grinding EVERY weapon/frame in the game to level 30. An idea prone to farming...yes, but maybe soft caps on mastery gain depending on the amount of times you've "prestiged" your weapon/frame could be implemented, which would reward players for exploring other content due to reduced mastery gain.

 

Of course its just an idea, I don't know how that would work with resets or if its even really necessary, but...yeah, It would be a nice way in my opinion to unlock content without forcing the player to play the game a certain way.