Paris (Bow & Arrows): Relevancy.

[(XBOX)WarHammer USMC]

I recently watched my newest favorite YouTube Video:

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...that pointed out that archery used to be way more badass.

This guy in the video, one Mr. Lars Andersen is one serious Danish reseracher into the lost art of archery.

 

Now, before I lose your attention; this dude accurately hit 7 targets in 0.6 SECONDS!!!!

That is faster than the ficticitious Legolas side-by-side and it proves it in this video:

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The secret?

The idea that a skilled archer can hold several arrows in their firing hand.

In Warframe, we can consider this a "clip" that can be affected by Clip Size, i.e. skill of the archer.

There remains the problem that the Paris needs to charge the shot.

This is the main aspect that sets it apart as a crappy sniper.

Mr. Andersen shows that it is entirely possible to shoot through chainmail armour even at fantastic speed.

 

I find the Paris to be enjoyable and rewarding, but it cannot compare to other weapons in the game.

 

My proposal is that we adjust this "Clip Size" feature to reflect this & do something about that horrible charge-per-shot (maybe by leveling?) and keep the Paris as a relavant weapon choice and not just a challenge to use.

 

There's still the drop and the lead required for moving targets, but you should certainly reward skilled players by making this a reasonable and comparable, rewarding choice.

 

[EversorNinja]

Great idea, and great video, but sniper rifles need a buff, not bows. Paris Prime and Dread are some of the most overpowered weapons in the game, and with a firerate mod can actually shoot very quickly. 

 

A massive buff like this would make Boltor Prime seem puny (ok maybe not, but it'd be close)

[SoulDust]

The amount of things I can lol one shot with all of my bows is more than rewarding enough for me.

 

 

This is cute in all but then I realized that guns exist and started laughing

Edited March 7, 2015 by SoulDust

[(XBOX)WarHammer USMC]

I feel the bows are more of a slow-moving, single-player weapon.

If you're not slowly sneaking through a map, silently, methodically taking out enemies, then you're just using the Bow as a challenge weapon.

They are very good at one, single thing, but overall; there are many better options.

[Serialkillerwhale]

You know, Bob Munden can shoot 1 target every 0.1 seconds, with targets 8 feet apart. His quickdraw is measured as "Faster than the eye can actually see"

Carlos hathcock killed a man from 2.250 Meters away, using a machine gun, then shot a man through the scope after seeing the glint of his own sniper rifle aimed at his face, clean through the scope, seconds before said sniper would have shot him. Snipers have done around 2475 meters at the most. Simo Hayha, who killed 500 soviets with iron sights on his sniper rifle in the snow, Michael Plumb shoots a goddamn snub-nose revolver (one barely larger than the guy's hand) from 60 feet away.

 

So no, until I can fire a soma through a balista's scope at multiple kilometers away, no.

 

 

Oh, and on another note, you are glorifying archery. Archery, in reality, was literally aiming in the general direction of a large army, then spamming arrows along with 6000 of your buddies, hoping the one arrow or two might hit something.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Serialkillerwhale

[The_Diabetes]

Paris Prime and Dread are among the best weapons in the game.

[Vaskadar]

If they introduce a mod to allow you to quickfire arrows fully charged, then there will have to be a drawback to compensate. Perhaps reduced crit chance or something.

[Vanadium]

Oh, and on another note, you are glorifying archery. Archery, in reality, was literally aiming in the general direction of a large army, then spamming arrows along with 6000 of your buddies, hoping the one arrow or two might hit something.

Most of ancient and medieval warfare, in reality, consisted of skirmishes on disputed land, so the form archery that's being "glorified" would probably be the most commonly used by professional soldiers.

In short, don't be a d!ck.

Granted, Paul Munden is a bada$$ and I would totally invite him to be part of a modern-day League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but I don't know why you and everyone else are ragging so much on this. It's just a cool thing that Space Ninjas should be able to do along with quickdraws and extreme range sniping.

Bows are pretty great right now, though. If we had a 'select fire mode' button, it would do this stuff for bows.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Vanadium

[Gahrzerkire]

If they introduce a mod to allow you to quickfire arrows fully charged, then there will have to be a drawback to compensate. Perhaps reduced crit chance or something.

I would be fine with this. But I would really appreciate the ability to fire off arrows faster, using say a 4 arrow clip (Arrows are fired at rate of 2-3 per second which is modifiable, and still have charge option) (being held in draw hand) and a reload time (grabbing those arrows) of about 1.0 second which cannot be lowered with mods. 

[(XBOX)ShygalSadie]

Watch the top video dirst, the type of shooting lars is doing is fascinating and all, but only effective against unarmored targets, im all for moving said quiver to the hip, but if this is done my dread is going to to the place in my arsenal to never return until patched back the way it is now

[Vanadium]

Watch the top video dirst, the type of shooting lars is doing is fascinating and all, but only effective against unarmored targets, im all for moving said quiver to the hip, but if this is done my dread is going to to the place in my arsenal to never return until patched back the way it is now

 

That's why a switch fire mode button would be cool. Just Legolas the trash mobs and nullifiers, then switch when a heavy tries to facetank.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Vanadium

[Serialkillerwhale]

Most of ancient and medieval warfare, in reality, consisted of skirmishes on disputed land, so the form archery that's being "glorified" would probably be the most commonly used by professional soldiers.

In short, don't be a d!ck.

Granted, Paul Munden is a bada$$ and I would totally invite him to be part of a modern-day League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but I don't know why you and everyone else are ragging so much on this. It's just a cool thing that Space Ninjas should be able to do along with quickdraws and extreme range sniping.

Bows are pretty great right now, though. If we had a 'select fire mode' button, it would do this stuff for bows.

Bob, not Paul munden.

 

And no, running around parkouring and shooting arrows isn't archery. Archery has always been about massed volumes of fire more than anything else, and that was the bow's advantage over early muskets and crossbows, which had a much lower volume of fire, but greater armor-penetrating power.

I'm ragging on it largely because........I don't like bows, am permanently mentally scarred from huntsman spammers, and find the over-hype of weapons that did nothing but look fancy and win badly rigged fights. (Agincourt was a worst-case scenario full of mud).

In reality, wars were won by lines of disicplined infantry and a final blow on a staggered enemy through heavy cavalry.

[gnasthunter115]

I feel the bows are more of a slow-moving, single-player weapon.

If you're not slowly sneaking through a map, silently, methodically taking out enemies, then you're just using the Bow as a challenge weapon.

They are very good at one, single thing, but overall; there are many better options.

I don't see them as a challenge weapon. I've used dread so much that i can fire off headshots with an uncharged shot at long range. Sure, you can use them for stealth, but i prefer the ballistica for stealth runs. I use dread to kill targets quickly, not stealthily. I actually have trouble using burst fire weapons, so to me, those are challenge weapons 

[Vanadium]

Bob, not Paul munden.

 

And no, running around parkouring and shooting arrows isn't archery. Archery has always been about massed volumes of fire more than anything else, and that was the bow's advantage over early muskets and crossbows, which had a much lower volume of fire, but greater armor-penetrating power.

I'm ragging on it largely because........I don't like bows, am permanently mentally scarred from huntsman spammers, and find the over-hype of weapons that did nothing but look fancy and win badly rigged fights. (Agincourt was a worst-case scenario full of mud).

In reality, wars were won by lines of disicplined infantry and a final blow on a staggered enemy through heavy cavalry.

 

Sorry for the typo.

 

Yes, Lars is over-hyping his "rediscovery" of archery. The situation is always going to dictate itself.

 

Like I said before, most of ancient/medieval conflict consisted of essentially tribal turf wars. What your talking about is outright war between nations. The history of Europe isn't just guys constantly tromping through the country with 10-50,000 men at your back. Otherwise, everyone in Europe would've been dead a while ago.

 

I'm just saying don't get too twisted up when someone's just trying to show us something cool.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Vanadium

[Serialkillerwhale]

Smaller scale doesn't mean more accuracy as much as it means a smaller volume of fire on less targets at shorter distances. Lar's targets were mostly stationary, at short range, and french (Thus doomed to lose anyway).

 

From the start of civilization, in greece, to the 16th century, it's always been about heavy infantry smacking eachother with various implements while auxillaries served as scouts and skirmishers. Volley fire, sustained fire, and massed fire, were all in use. "Indivual" aiming was inaccurate and based more on "keep slinging arrows" than "One shot one kill".

 

You seem to be refering to "Tribal" warfare, like that of pre-shaka african tribes, rather than greek/roman/european nations.

 You average target will not be any of those (Since the french would surender, ha ha I'm funny). but a man with a shield, most of his body behind said shield.

[manub]

To get back on topic, the idea of a "clip" for bows is interesting

But the fast reload time for them makes it largely irrelevant, a clip for bows would need De to slow its reload speed by a huge margin (wouldn t trouble me much but you & DE would have to prepare huge loads of flame repellent)

That said, i main bows (well dread mostly, don t like paris p sucking sound while charging), What made you think bows can t compare to other weaps? They are the kings of crit weaps & widely recognized as "endgame stuff". You must have em modded wrong(no offense meant), though ennemy path anticipation needs getting used to

Historical side:

1- previous posts seem to assume only western warrior conflicts, there is a reason some of eastern martial arts focus on bows

2- while firerate was the most important concept in bow/early guns conflicts, don't forget that real precision in guns is recent thing (1or 2 century old), early guns had difficulty reliably hitting an elephant 10 m in front of shooter & were mostly used for psych warfare (noise & horrible wounds IF you hit)

[Gahrzerkire]

Smaller scale doesn't mean more accuracy as much as it means a smaller volume of fire on less targets at shorter distances. Lar's targets were mostly stationary, at short range, and french (Thus doomed to lose anyway).

From the start of civilization, in greece, to the 16th century, it's always been about heavy infantry smacking eachother with various implements while auxillaries served as scouts and skirmishers. Volley fire, sustained fire, and massed fire, were all in use. "Indivual" aiming was inaccurate and based more on "keep slinging arrows" than "One shot one kill".

You seem to be refering to "Tribal" warfare, like that of pre-shaka african tribes, rather than greek/roman/european nations.

You average target will not be any of those (Since the french would surender, ha ha I'm funny). but a man with a shield, most of his body behind said shield.

He is using an Arabic archery form... I am an archer... And am very familiar with that style of shooting... It is nothing like what the Frenchmen faced. Lar's archery forms are from the nlmiddle east.

Clip based bows would be awesome at base though you would only be able to hold three arrows maxiumwith mods five. So five arrows per clip at a firerate of two arrows per second at base.