No Un-Banning After Second Incident?

[Lifeshield]

Actually, that's also a rubbish analogy. Continuing with the theme of these analogies, a better one would be:

 

You rob a store and get away with it, except you own the store - you do this simply for fun, for the thrill of robbing but at no cost to anybody. The next-door store sees you, reports you, and you get sent to jail.

 

The problem with your analogy is that you do not own Warframe. It is licensed to you.

[Argoms]

The problem with your analogy is that you do not own Warframe. It is licensed to you.

The analogy wasn't cheating in warframe either- it was cheating a completely different game that has no relation to warframe.

[Lifeshield]

The analogy wasn't cheating in warframe either- it was cheating a completely different game that has no relation to warframe.

 

Warframe or not, same principle applies unless the player made the game themselves.

[Kantazo]

Cheating is cheating, from warframe or any other game.

[W4RM4CHIN3]

Create another account??? 

[Deadly-Bagel]

Lol, so many people saying DE are so mean for not unbanning him a second time. I think they're being lenient in unbanning him the first time.

 

I mean, seriously, he was caught running a cheat engine. All DE have is his word he accidentally opened it. Then it happens a second time? And people are still hysterical that they are no longer being lenient? lolwtf.

 

Even if it was accidental, DE aren't obliged to spend time manually undoing every consequence for "oops I accidentally did something against TOS". I mean jeez, if you own a rifle (cheat engine in this case) you don't tote it casually then claim innocence after blowing a window out on two seperate occasions.

[Enot83]

Should people really be punished harshly for easy to make mistakes? And I suggested long temporary bans leading to permanent.

 

It is not an easy to make mistake.  I mean, how many people, accidently go to the cheat engine website, accidently by mistake download the program, and then mistakenly install it.  Thats a whole lot of these "easy mistakes" to be made before someone could even click on the wrong program to open.

 

If you can go through the steps above, you should have taken the extra precaution to avoid opening the program unintentionally.  To then make that mistake twice. This was either no mistake or this person is so lazy and incompetent any of your suggestions of a lesser punishment will not help in these matters, they will continue to make this so called mistake repeatedly until banned permanently.

 

The consequences are appropriate.  As stated in the EULA.  Acting like the punishment is a shock just makes you look ignorant of the rules and why they are there.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Enot83

[XDeathCoreX]

No, it is that there are mistakes that are easy to make. They are just things done by accident, in this case being careful after the first mistake only to down the road make that mistake again especially when in Warframe's case, an alert pops up and you notice it late and you need to get on fast completely forgetting some things you have open only to get a harsh(Getting banned) reminder right before the mission starts. To make this worse, it could be a Orokin or Glaive that everyone rushes for.

 

Haste makes waste and these alerts promote haste.

 

There are other cases where a person after the first mistake is very careful only month later to mess up again. No one is perfect.

 

FYI: Lengthy bans help prevent these accidents and the Devs can still make money off these guys. Every penny counts especially when the "Devs gotta eat".

Edited May 12, 2013 by XDeathCoreX

[Notso]

The problem with your analogy is that you do not own Warframe. It is licensed to you.

Yes but in singleplayer games there's nothing against modding them for only your own use in the EULA. In my analogy, the shop owner rents the building, but the landowner doesn't care about his rentee's things being stolen. Your criticism is invalid.

[Notso]

It is not an easy to make mistake.  I mean, how many people, accidently go to the cheat engine website, accidently by mistake download the program, and then mistakenly install it.  Thats a whole lot of these "easy mistakes" to be made before someone could even click on the wrong program to open.

 

If you can go through the steps above, you should have taken the extra precaution to avoid opening the program unintentionally.  To then make that mistake twice. This was either no mistake or this person is so lazy and incompetent any of your suggestions of a lesser punishment will not help in these matters, they will continue to make this so called mistake repeatedly until banned permanently.

 

The consequences are appropriate.  As stated in the EULA.  Acting like the punishment is a shock just makes you look ignorant of the rules and why they are there.

you are saying that a permanent ban for running a program that was not touching the warframe exe is fair?

so you agree that people should go to jail for accurately shooting a target with their hunting rifle just because there is minuscule chance that he might shoot a person?

[Enot83]

you are saying that a permanent ban for running a program that was not touching the warframe exe is fair?

so you agree that people should go to jail for accurately shooting a target with their hunting rifle just because there is minuscule chance that he might shoot a person?

 

Such a stupid analogy.  What you tried to explain would be more like walking out into a plaza and waving a loaded firearm around at the public, you might not shoot them, but there is a chance.  What do you think the responding forces are going to do, treat you like a saint?  doubtful.

 

You also didn't read the EULA, and do not understand how Cheat Engine and other programs operate, otherwise you would know exactly why players are banned for the use of it and similar programs.

 

 

 

Yes but in singleplayer games there's nothing against modding them for only your own use in the EULA

This is false, editing/changing proprietary data developed by a company is up to the discretion of those who own the copyright liscense.  There definetly is something against modding single player games, and just like here, it is at the discretion of the owner. 

 

 

 

No, it is that there are mistakes that are easy to make. They are just things done by accident, in this case being careful after the first mistake only to down the road make that mistake again especially when in Warframe's case, an alert pops up and you notice it late and you need to get on fast completely forgetting some things you have open only to get a harsh(Getting banned) reminder right before the mission starts. To make this worse, it could be a Orokin or Glaive that everyone rushes for.

 

You do not accidently download cheat engine, install it, and then run it.  This exact situation you provided you are running the programs with intent, if you are the careless party, and responsible for your own actions. 

 

If you are willing to take the risk of downloading said programs, you are opening yourself up for numerous problems, if you want to avoid them, don't use these programs.  Simple.

 

A second chance is/was given at the discretion of DE.

 

You were wrong about the EULA, you are wrong about this, your logic is flawed, you have no argument other than some pathetic attempt to appeal to someones compassion.

 

Asking to be excused from the EULA due to your own stupidity and carelessness based on your example is ridiculous, you knew the rules, you made the decisions, enjoy the consequences.  You've already been told the solution, and if you didn't understand it before, here is is again.  Stop running these 3rd party programs, ever.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Enot83

[blaes]

so you agree that people should go to jail for accurately shooting a target with their hunting rifle just because there is minuscule chance that he might shoot a person?

no.

however, i agree that someone taking out a hunting rifle in a place where it's strictly forbidden without having been granted special permission (say, an airport or a school for instance) should be punished.

[Enot83]

no.

however, i agree that someone taking out a hunting rifle in a place where it's strictly forbidden without having been granted special permission (say, an airport or a school for instance) should be punished.

 

Yah Notso has no understanding of gun law/or the laws covering the material in this game.  Analogy was made out of the ignorance of these things.

[Drusus]

you are saying that a permanent ban for running a program that was not touching the warframe exe is fair?

so you agree that people should go to jail for accurately shooting a target with their hunting rifle just because there is minuscule chance that he might shoot a person?

 

To more precisely structure your analogy (which I'm sure is a lost cause as it'll just go back and forth getting more convoluted, but I'll try):

 

To walk into the mall with other people with your loaded rifle slung on your shoulder and be arrested even though you profess 'Oh, I've just got this out because I was at the target range and will be returning there later.'

 

Yes, I'm absolutely fine with you being barred from entry based on probable cause of being a threat.

 

We're talking about being banned for possession of the dangerous tool AND demonstrating it's availability at the time of relevance.

 

That's enough probable cause for even the legal system of the real world to view as suspicious and requiring address in cases that are not even life threatening (such as the extremely spurious example above).

 

I respectfully suggest this thread should have been locked by now as useful discussion hasn't been resident for some time.  People need to agree to disagree on these points and recognize that DE has made the call.  If people do not agree with it, they are free not to provide DE their patronage.

 

I for one endorse the current strategy as an intelligent, quarantine style approach that is aimed at making the tough choice to protect and defend the greatest number of benefits.  

 

For those that feel otherwise, I'm sorry we disagree.

[Lifeshield]

Yes but in singleplayer games there's nothing against modding them for only your own use in the EULA. In my analogy, the shop owner rents the building, but the landowner doesn't care about his rentee's things being stolen. Your criticism is invalid.

 

What you can or cannot do with any given game, be it single player or multi player, is entirely at the discretion of the copyright holder. You have no right to modify, you are given permission, and there is a massive difference between the two. What an EULA states can, and will, differ entirely with each and every individual game. Do not assume that every EULA allows you to modify a game at your will.

 

As for your analogy you did not mention anything about the shop owner renting the building, be it himself as a tenant or to another person, or the land owner caring about the tenants property.

 

You rob a store and get away with it, except you own the store - you do this simply for fun, for the thrill of robbing but at no cost to anybody. The next-door store sees you, reports you, and you get sent to jail.

 

Not once.

 

All you state is that you as the store owner rob your own store and are reported to the police by a neighbouring store owner for robbing your own store. Your analogy was in the spirit of stealing from yourself, and is the only light it can be taken among the notion of insurance fraud (re: cheating/lying) which is an inaccurate analogy because you do not own Warframe.

 

Therefore my criticism is entirely valid.

[Notso]

I respectfully suggest this thread should have been locked by now as useful discussion hasn't been resident for some time.  People need to agree to disagree on these points and recognize that DE has made the call.

 

For those that feel otherwise, I'm sorry we disagree.

 

Agreed. I've wasted enough time here :P

[Mak_Gohae]

Should people really be punished harshly for easy to make mistakes? And I suggested long temporary bans leading to permanent.

 

13 pages because people cant turn off a program.

I say yes.

[GrimmLiberty]

Darwin Game Award Granted.   buh-bye

[Deadly-Bagel]

Just my two cents on the shop owner analogy before this ticket gets nuked.

 

You rob your own store and then WALK INTO a neighbouring store with the firearm over your shoulder, that store reports you to the police and you get arrested not for robbing your own store, but for carrying a firearm into another one.

 

EDIT Mah bad, I forgot I'd got to this thread following random links through the forum and didn't realise it was necro x3

Edited May 14, 2013 by Deadly-Bagel

[Kantazo]

Kill this dinosaur.