Shotgun Reload Overhaul.

[-Vondred-]

By far, the shotguns are my favorite weapon types in the game.  I love my strun and the hek is most lethal.

 

But one thing that bothers me is when I get stunned or staggered right at the end of my clip reloading -- When this happens, it completely cancels out my entire reload, which is a pain, and unfortunate.

 

My suggestion to fix this is to allow us to reload each clip by shell, so at least when we do get stunned or staggered in the middle of a reload, we have some ammo to work with.  Some people might not see this as big an issue as others, but I personally feel it would add some comfort when using the shotguns.

 

In detail - The amount of time it takes to reload every shell in to the clip of the shotgun, would be there exact base time it takes to reload the entire clip.  And of course, reload speed mods would increase the speed of each shell being loaded.

 

This video illustrates a man loading 4 shells quickly, and then 8 shells in the same way.  You'll notice the speed is actually quicker than the all the clip reloads for shotguns in Warframe.  This would further help back up the idea that this could work.

 

 

 

 

 

(Props to AnalogAnomaly for finding this video!)

 

Feedback Welcome.  Thank you for reading.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Vondredd

[Feindfeuer]

This would give a slight reload disadvantage to weapons equipped with extanded magazines, but i'm fine with that. I actually like that Idea.

[-Vondred-]

I also wouldn't mind that at all.  The point is to get some ammo out of it, rather than nothing after wasting time waiting on the reload.

[DreamerNeon]

+1

[ZuryVarkoff]

if the shotguns are on the magazine reload style how do you suggest loading each shell manualy ? :D

[McTaggert]

I agree that the shotguns are certainly very powerful and very deadly up close.  But let me at least take the counterpoint here.  Weapon selection is a tactic choice.  High damage is traded off in size, capacity, and reload speed of the magazine.  And while you can upgrade your weapons with capacity and speed reloads, it also begs the question of tactics during combat... do you simply reload in the line of fire of the enemy.

 

While it is a pain and I can certainly from experience sympathize with having the reload sequence restart after being stunned (especially during those infested mob fests), but weapon select of grabbing your pistol or melee weapon or trying to get some distance before or during reload.  I think that this is something that play style address more so that getting partial reloads, or other fixes.  Again, the tactical choice for such a devastating series of weapons.  Also, in some of the cooperative spirit of the game.. this would be a chance for your teammates to cover you while you reload.  I know that is easier said than done, especially in pickup games... but when working within a clan, etc.

[-Vondred-]

I agree that the shotguns are certainly very powerful and very deadly up close.  But let me at least take the counterpoint here.  Weapon selection is a tactic choice.  High damage is traded off in size, capacity, and reload speed of the magazine.  And while you can upgrade your weapons with capacity and speed reloads, it also begs the question of tactics during combat... do you simply reload in the line of fire of the enemy.

 

While it is a pain and I can certainly from experience sympathize with having the reload sequence restart after being stunned (especially during those infested mob fests), but weapon select of grabbing your pistol or melee weapon or trying to get some distance before or during reload.  I think that this is something that play style address more so that getting partial reloads, or other fixes.  Again, the tactical choice for such a devastating series of weapons.  Also, in some of the cooperative spirit of the game.. this would be a chance for your teammates to cover you while you reload.  I know that is easier said than done, especially in pickup games... but when working within a clan, etc.

 

Do I reload in the line of fire?  Yes.  Everyone does.  It's force of habit, and automatic when the clip runs out.  

 

Did you even read the thing through?.  The reload speed would be the exact same, the difference only occurs on a stagger or stun (which includes Knock-Downs.), switch of weapon, melee attacks, blocks, and firing. This kind of reloading has been around for a decade in gaming when using shotguns, and it's a recipe that works.  

 

On a last note, You're talking theory, without implementing any form of mechanic.  Nothing you stated has convinced me that this wouldn't work.

 

The only Question that matters, with no technical thinking, no specific analysis, no theory -- As generic as I can ask, is as general as the idea.

 

 Is it or is it not more beneficial to have a few shells in your weapon, than no shells in your weapon, after being stunned or staggered while reloading?

 

That's all this is about.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Vondredd

[Argoms]

*magazine

 

Having some shotguns reload per shell instead of magazine could add a bit more variety to the things.

[-Vondred-]

*magazine

 

Having some shotguns reload per shell instead of magazine could add a bit more variety to the things.

 Oh, I didn't even notice that, haha -- Thank you :)

[McTaggert]

Yes, I certainly understand what your asking and I certainly see your point.  The ability to reload single shells instead of prepared/multi-round clips/magazines.

 

That does get into specifics about a particular weapon and the ability to load/accept rapidly single shells as opposed to clips.  I realize that in game there are different types of shotguns available so this is not a one size fits all.  If you look at real life examples and I will take something that most people are familiar with the AR-15/M-16.  Clip feed magazine.  Can you load single rounds.  Sure... it takes some time and is not as efficient.  There are similar examples in shotguns between tubular magazine and automatic shotguns that use clips.  Can you load single shells... certain.  You suggestion and approach can work.  I do not argue that.  I am only suggesting that it would not be as efficient and is only going to give you 1-2 shots.  Perhaps that is all you need.  Would it add variety..  certainly. 

[Maldhyr]

Well, since imho HEK uses an over-/under barrel approach this would not work. Same goes for the Boar which gives me the impression of being magazine fed, but for the Strun... why not.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Maldhyr

[TennoSkoom]

To be perfectly honest i clicked this thread expecting to see 'whaaah bawww reload on shotgun too slow' and was prepared to point out the damage output balances out the slower reload times. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised with a concise and valid argument for a realistic feature that neither buffs nor debuffs the weapons and has solid reasoning behind it. While a mild annoyance- i don't find this stun-interrupt to be a huge issue. Even so,I honestly think OP has a good, reasonable idea- So you've got my +1 =)

[-Vondred-]

Well, since imho HEK uses an over-/under barrel approach this would not work. Same goes for the Boar which gives me the impression of being magazine fed, but for the Strun... why not.

 

I could settle for that!  I've seen magazine fed shotguns in action -- with already prepped mag's loaded with shells, it's really as easy as dropping the empty mag with the touch of a button, and sliding a new one in.  It's actually just as quick if not quicker than reloading some pistol and AR mags.  

 

To be perfectly honest i clicked this thread expecting to see 'whaaah bawww reload on shotgun too slow' and was prepared to point out the damage output balances out the slower reload times. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised with a concise and valid argument for a realistic feature that neither buffs nor debuffs the weapons and has solid reasoning behind it. While a mild annoyance- i don't find this stun-interrupt to be a huge issue. Even so,I honestly think OP has a good, reasonable idea- So you've got my +1 =)

 

Haha, I've been there and done that :P --  On the subject of stuns, I don't find it that bad either as we have abilities and dodge as a way to negate them.  And to be honest, the reload cancel itself truly isn't that bad.  This idea was just put out there to see if players could agree on this improvement.  With implementing other ideas, and collaborating with the community, we can definitely find a common ground.

[BobDillinger]

I would love to have a reload per shell system in addition to a magazine for variety among shotgun type weapons.

[mogamu]

Great Idea, I was thinking the same thing.

Its really annoying when I have my HEK half loaded and then I walk off a ramp, do a accidental forward roll and have to restart the whole thing LOL!

*thumbsup

[Qb3rt]

This would be a great addition to the "What are some things other games have done better?" thread somewhere on these forums. This reload mechanic was a core mechanic for shotguns in the old school Half-Life games & mods.

[Dr.KennethNoiswater]

I don't want to be the guy that brings the rainclouds to this brainstorm, but with the system you are suggesting(single shell while maintaining overall time) the boar would have base and unmodded reload speed of .22 seconds per shell which is beyond realistic as the average time for a human to blink is between .1 and .4 seconds, while the hek would end up with a time of .537 seconds per shell. (more than double the time for the same reloading action?)

 

I can understand the style and wanting the ability to load them one by one but they would have to change all of the shotguns to the new system (for balance) as well as changing the base times or at the very least allow them be loaded 2-3 shells per animation as a handful of other games have done in the past, though other problems would then arise with balancing (2 loading actions for hek vs. 5 loading actions for boar.)

 

I actually like the magazine fed system they have currently as if a tenno has trouble releasing and loading a single magazine without "dropping" it and having to start over because of an incoming attack how would it be any easier to load the shells one at a time without dropping them or while maintaining inhuman feats of agility to evade attacks.

 

Plus where do we stop on that slope, as I would prefer being able to load cartridges one at a time for my lex so that I don't have to deal with interrupts there either. Come to think of it my snipetron could benefit it from that as well if it were implemented.

 

I feel that it boils down to choosing your moments to reload in a way that benefits your equipment loadout. All guns can be affected by an interrupted reload animation causing you to begin again before you can shoot and 2 seconds of cover or "tactical repositioning to the rear" ( the tenno never retreat!) doesn't seem unreasonable to my mind.

[-Vondred-]

I don't want to be the guy that brings the rainclouds to this brainstorm, but with the system you are suggesting(single shell while maintaining overall time) the boar would have base and unmodded reload speed of .22 seconds per shell which is beyond realistic as the average time for a human to blink is between .1 and .4 seconds, while the hek would end up with a time of .537 seconds per shell. (more than double the time for the same reloading action?)

 

I can understand the style and wanting the ability to load them one by one but they would have to change all of the shotguns to the new system (for balance) as well as changing the base times or at the very lay allow them be loaded 2-3 shells per animation as a handful of other games have done in the past, though other problems would then arise with balancing (2 loading actions for hek vs. 5 loading actions for boar.)

 

I actually like the magazine fed system they have currently as if a tenno has trouble releasing and loading a single magazine without "dropping" it and having to start over because of an incoming attack how would it be any easier to load the shells one at a time without dropping them or while maintaining inhuman feats of agility to evade attacks.

 

Plus where do we stop on that slope, as I would prefer being able to load cartridges one at a time for my lex so that I don't have to deal with interrupts there either. Come to think of it my snipetron could benefit it from that as well if it were implemented.

 

I feel that it boils down to choosing your moments to reload in a way that benefits your equipment loadout. All guns can be affected by an interrupted reload animation causing you to begin again before you can shoot and 2 seconds of cover or "tactical repositioning to the rear" ( the tenno never retreat!) doesn't seem unreasonable to my mind.

You make some valid points. I'm at work so I can't reply to this in full until I'm home. I'll pm you when I update! Thanks :D

[Ksdsdf]

If your total reload time is like snipetron, then i think this system will work. Because the reload per shell needs animation, which you can't make it with inhuman speed.

 

For anything that takes 3s or less in reload time right now, this wouldn't work very well, except reload 2 shells per animation. that still mean 1.5s per animation, seems very fast for a clip size of 4. WIth larger clip size, the total reload time must be increased. 

Edited May 11, 2013 by Ksdsdf

[ValhaHazred]

Sorry, but I hope this doesn't happen.

[SnokyoDrift]

 

In detail - The amount of time it takes to reload every shell in to the clip of the shotgun, would be there exact base time it takes to reload the entire clip.  And of course, reload speed mods would increase the speed of each shell being loaded.

 

Why do shotguns deserve a buff to their reloading time? You haven't made a single point for this. This thread can be summarised by "Here's a way to buff shotguns". 

[cursedarcher]

So do you guys think that criticals or armor pierce is much more important to shotgun? 

[Lumdalumlum]

Well it could be kinda like L4D2's shotgun reload. Their shotgun also reload 1 shell by 1 shell. But its bloody slow XD.

[TennoSkoom]

I believe what OP is suggesting is not a buff to reload speed- in fact- reload speed should be kept the same as it is now. What he's suggesting is that you be able to keep the shells you've loaded based on the percentage of the reload time completed prior to interruption. Meaning if you have a gun with 4 rounds and you managed to get knocked down by an moa while reloading, or had your reload interrupted by a jump or something else- that you keep the percentage of the full mag rounded to the nearest shell. Ie if you have a 4 second reload and you get interrupted halfway through it, you have two shells loaded.

 

addressing the animation concerns a quick search turned up this video tutorial showing how to reload a shotgun efficiently.

 

I think this is an interesting idea that neither buffs nor debuffs shotguns but provides additional utility to the existing mechanic. Implementation may or may not require adjustment to the Boar- but the Strun and Hek should be fine with this.

 

Personally I could take or leave this feature, there's nothing overly positive about it, but there's also nothing bad about it.

[PositronicSpleen]

Why do shotguns deserve a buff to their reloading time? You haven't made a single point for this. This thread can be summarised by "Here's a way to buff shotguns". 

It isn't a buff to their reload time, he just said the total magazine reload time was exactly the same. It just means if your reload is cancelled x% through, the gun is loaded x% of it's magazine capacity. Definitely rounded down to the nearest round.

 

If anything, it would make magazine extension mods less effective, although not detrimental; it increases time to load the whole magazine, but it would still allow someone to shoot more before needing to reload. It would also allow someone to load just one shot if they run out when an enemy is near death.

 

Oh, and I guess it might make reload cancelling less effective?

Edited May 13, 2013 by PositronicSpleen