Kogake Are Not Op

[Cool3303]

I was honestly not really suprised when I found so much Kogake hate on the forums but on the other Hand I expected a bit more.

 

KOGAKE are not op

 

A lot of people have picked up the opinion that Kogake users are sent by the Devil and horribly OP

The ongoing Opinion is that they Stunlock, which is just not true.

 

Without Handspring you have (aslong as the finisher doesn't kick in) 2 free shots,lex or latron clearly seal the deal.

 

With Handspring you need to be knocked down 3-5 times and have a lot of chances to copter away  or counter yourself

 

Kogake have a very clear and easy ruleset to counter which make them only mediocre at best:

So far no Kogake Users have outclassed me and I usually have double or more K/D

I suggest you to try the following to win against Kogake/Melee and post your experience

 

Easy Rules to defend against Kogake/Any Melee

 

 

0.Guns outrange melee weapons KEEP DISTANCE

 

1.Dont turn your back to a kogake user ever -If you are knocked down by surprise COPTER AWAY AND SHOOT

1.1Only try to countermelee if you hit the health of an enemy.

 

2.Kogake users are animation locked-If they traverse the distance between you and them SHOOT

2.1 Aim for the head

2.2 If you use a bow, don't be a hero, copter away if your enemy gets to close

 

3.Dont underestimate the Force-Dont think the enviroment saves you when you stand on a crate, air slams stun even when hitting next to the crate and get you killed, this goes for any melee.

3.1 Edges are not a legit cover, seriously standing around a corner gets you killed everytime

3.2 Doing a wallrun and shooting/using a ability is really strong against melee and rarely used.

3.3 If you are caught in the corner behind the open door in the orokin map spawns you are dead

There is no vision for the enemy on you.... but really we know that the flag carrier always  hides there

If you dont have any vision however.... everything can kill you

 

4.Quickmelee is not a certain kill/counter- Run and gun

Your average Kogake user wont but... I carry a shotgun for specialists that think meleeing gets them out of the fight easy

4.1With Bo (Prime) you have less Damage dont engage however we all know that you picked that weapon to escape a fight  just dont be so sure about that

4.2Contering with Dex Dakra once you are knocked down does only work if you know that your enemy has 80 or less life

 

Intermediate/Dependent Counters:

 

1.TEAMPLAY

Kogake users are assasins. If they jump you and you are unguarded you deserved to be killed

If you keep within reach of someone with a good weapon you are golden

1.1Standing close to each other makes you weaker, Kogake have only little range to knock you down, so do other melee weapons

1.2 Dont try to hit the kogake user with your melee.Honestly I made a sweet triple (2guys with Handspring,1 without) because I could just jump between all them.

 

2.Lag affects melee way more

Yep, already jumped trough people but my shots never missed that far (though enemies have been lagging/jumping)

2.1The good shooters always get the highest KD, dont believe Kogake can wipe a server

 

 

[SoullessEgo]

I appreciate the well thought-out post. I do disagree however. I don't think a melee with spammy CC is even close to fair, whether its escape-able or not. The idea is that, whenever you confront a kogake player, if they're decent THEY control that confrontation, and a skilled player with Kogake won't let you escape, the recovery frames just arent there with handspring. And it's not like the kogake user HAS to continually KD. They can easily just Knock-down and follow up with a base lex, and decimate you with no hope. Hand-Spring and Sure-Footed are "counters" sure, but they don't help enough over the onslaught. The kogake player has TOO MUCH control in a fight.  also~

 

"Kogake users are assasins. If they jump you and you are unguarded you deserved to be killed" Again, i disagree here, just considering how easy it is to just slide into someone's back unwittingly. My opinions though, at-least there is no "shaming those that have different opinions" in this post.

[elele]

If it's not OP, how come everyone and his mom is using Kogake (or Bo P/Dakra which are also OP btw)? 

 

Why don't I ever see anyone using Furax or Fang or Ripkas? Oh right, because those are useless compared to Kogake/Bo P/Dakra. 

 

Can you not get killed by a Kogake? Sure you can, by skillful play. Doesn't mean it's not OP though. 

[Cool3303]

THEY control that confrontation, and a skilled player with Kogake won't let you escape, the recovery frames just arent there with handspring. And it's not like the kogake user HAS to continually KD. They can easily just Knock-down and follow up with a base lex, and decimate you with no hope.

That wont work against anyone with handspring, it surely is viable against people without.... but Handspring drops so often and there is plenty of place for it

 

If it's not OP, how come everyone and his mom is using Kogake (or Bo P/Dakra which are also OP btw)?

 

Why don't I ever see anyone using Furax or Fang or Ripkas? Oh right, because those are useless compared to Kogake/Bo P/Dakra. 

Well there might be some weaponst that are left behind in balance .... but honestly I almost never see people melee or use kogake.

Also some weapons might be used because they are genuinely fun to play

 

Can you not get killed by a Kogake? Sure you can, by skillful play. Doesn't mean it's not OP though. 

Well If you can counter it with just skill it is not really op.

Gram and Dex Dakra are just as strong

[elele]

but honestly I almost never see people melee or use kogake.

Also some weapons might be used because they are genuinely fun to play

 

Well If you can counter it with just skill it is not really op.

Gram and Dex Dakra are just as strong

 

In almost every match I play there is a Kogake user. I don't know how you almost never see one. 

 

I can counter Kogake if the user is of low skill. But someone of equal skill to me? I stand no chance against Kogake. My strategy is to just run away from them. If that doesn't mean it's OP, then I don't know what OP means in your eyes. 

[Cool3303]

In almost every match I play there is a Kogake user. I don't know how you almost never see one. 

 

I can counter Kogake if the user is of low skill. But someone of equal skill to me? I stand no chance against Kogake. My strategy is to just run away from them. If that doesn't mean it's OP, then I don't know what OP means in your eyes. 

Well I am usually the Kogake user *Ähm*AHAHAHAHAHAAHA

 

Running is a pretty bad idea, try the strategies I listed.

[elele]

Running is a pretty bad idea, try the strategies I listed.

 

You can't hit me with Kogake if I'm thirty meter away. So I'll just stick with avoiding Kogake users and pick easier targets. 

 

And if everyone uses a Kogake? Well then a nerf is in order, or I'll just use Kogake myself. 

[onemoonlight]

the knockdown alone isnt that big of a deal if it wasnt for the fact that with kogake you get a knockdown AND mobility in one move

 

you WILL be using the mobility it gives 90% of the time, cause why not, and if someone happens to be on your path, the knockdown is free

 

if they were 2 different moves it would be fine

[GTG3000]

Someone actually uses kogake? I haven't seen them for months <_<.

[Skeks]

The gram, dex dakra, kogake, fang prime, and bo prime are all pretty evenly weighted it feels like. Some of them may be a little easier to use than others, and they do all serve for different functions and different styles of play. However, I would say they are all at least equally effective in proper hands. Just because you don't see people using these weapons all the time doesn't necessarily mean that those weapons can't be used effectively. It is just a sign of where the general player base gravitates to with its weaponry. It's also likely that this situation is somewhat propagated by the false narrative, here on the forums; that there is currently some form of standard meta (often revolving around these so called "OP" weapons). Likewise just because running as "pure" melee isn't something commonly seen, it doesn't mean that players who use only melee (like myself) don't exist. Nor does it mean that such play cannot be extremely effective. 

[SilentCircle]

I just had the full Kogake expierence. Those things absolutly need a nerf. With continous slide attacks they're almost as fast as Bo Prime. If you get to close it's instant knowdown. Then a one-hit finisher ever time. Even with Handspring you have no chance to get up. On a frame like Rhino or Chroma you have little to no chance to kill them before they can close the gap and then it's knock down time again.

[Skeks]

I just had the full Kogake expierence. Those things absolutly need a nerf. With continous slide attacks they're almost as fast as Bo Prime. If you get to close it's instant knowdown. Then a one-hit finisher ever time. Even with Handspring you have no chance to get up. On a frame like Rhino or Chroma you have little to no chance to kill them before they can close the gap and then it's knock down time again.

 

One thing I've learned to help defend against this is to start swinging before they reach you. Most weapons seem have at least a few frames of stagger resist (at least while fully equipped). If they land the hit on you as your already attacking, you still take the damage, but decent chance so did they. Then its just a matter of how good you are in melee combat (blocking, positioning, channeling, and timing). Using my prefered Gram, I usually find myself dying only to the most skilled of kogake users in close quarters, and usually on a 1 to 1 ratio.

 

I think the kogake get such a bad wrap because most of us have had to deal with at least 1 ridiculously laggy player who could knock us down before he even appeared on screen, and the kogake's mechanics play directly into that. However its just a part of internet gaming, there are always going to be those matches. On most players, the kogake do not seem to be that OP.