A Viable Solution To Survival Missions And Camping

[nothing429]

I believe I've come up with an idea to solve the issue of camping in Survival missions. The basic premise is to force players to move around a given survival map continuously while making use of as many existing in-game mechanics as possible. To make this happen, I think that life support drops from mobs should be removed entirely. In return, the life support modules that appear in the world should drop more life support when activated.

 

Doing just this, however, introduces another even more 'campy' issue - frames such as Limbo, Loki, and Valkyr could simply activate life support while the rest of the team hides where mobs cannot reach.

 

I offer this solution in answer - increased life support drain based on mobs currently alive. As long as a team of players can kill mobs at a consistent rate, life support drain is reduced (Less mobs to breathe the air, less drain. Makes sense right?) to a point where life support can be sustained.

 

An example:

 

-Life support modules no longer give 30% but 50%. Life support spawns at a set rate, in a random part of the map.

-Killing no mobs increases life support drain by up to 50%, making survival without killing mobs impossible.

-Killing at least 6 mobs a minute per player eliminates the extra drain completely. (scales based on team size)

-Killing less mobs still decreases the drain, but not as much.

-To allow for players who are more supportive, the kills are based on a team's total kills in a minute. (removes potentially toxic situations where a newer or support-oriented player doesn't get as many kills but still contributes)

-Every 5 minutes that passes until the 20 minute mark will increase the mob kill requirement per player by +1, maxing at 10 kills/minute. (Optional, may want to keep it at a steady figure)

-Eventually players will be forced to extract due to an increased drain caused by an increased TTK (time to kill).

 

The above example is by no means an exact solution, but I think the overall mechanics provide a good remedy to the issue at hand without changing many of the core mechanics. Critiques are more than welcome, thanks for reading!

 

*Edit* Also worth noting that this system would remove Nekros from his personal purgatory of spamming desecrate.

Edited April 8, 2015 by nothing429

[Haukai]

No no, I know, let's make the AFK detection system even better :

If you do not move for more than 3 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and you're kicked out of the game.
If you use your powers but do not move within 5 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and kicked out of the game.
If you shoot but do not move within 5 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and kicked out of the game.
If you don't 360 noscope yoloswag roll once every 10 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and kicked out of the game.

This would drastically reduce camping and would make players move more.
Everyone would be happy this way.. right?!

Just in case : /s

[LTRFOX]

The current camp setups don't lack for killing mobs,  it is actually quite efficient at just that with or without a speed Nova.

 

The current spawn mechanics and general idea of Survival lends itself to a camp setup whether it be a single room, sewer, or dead end area.

[MrBetrayer]

I'll just throw this one out there right now.

When I solo T3 survivals on my Loki I easily average over 10 kills a minute past 50 minutes. So that's the biggest problem I see with this.

[CGs_Knackie]

I say NO. At the beginning it doesn't necessary to camp but later (1 hour+) it does. 

[nothing429]

I'll just throw this one out there right now.

When I solo T3 survivals on my Loki I easily average over 10 kills a minute past 50 minutes. So that's the biggest problem I see with this.

 

Please note that in the example I gave, the kills per minute is just an estimate. I don't have access to playerdata that would define an appropriate number (it's possible that the number could be implemented as highly variable, based upon current mob spawns in the map). What I'm trying to convey mechanics that are affected as little as possible by RNG and one that reduces camping. 

[nothing429]

I say NO. At the beginning it doesn't necessary to camp but later (1 hour+) it does. 

Taking into consideration the current meta, you're right. Before the camping meta it was Trinity with perma-invuln blessing. Wouldn't you agree that the current system which allows for groups (or some would say demand) to stand still and spam a single key over and over (Mag's #1, Nekros #3, Vauban's 3 or 4)to gain rewards over all other options is a bit broken? I've been in some of these runs and I've nearly fallen asleep spamming a single key over and over. It's not fair to those players whose job is the equivalent of Stanley from the Stanley Parable. 

 

There are multiple issues with survival and drops in general, but it's bad for the long term health of the game for the current meta to exist in its current state.

[CGs_Knackie]

Taking into consideration the current meta, you're right. Before the camping meta it was Trinity with perma-invuln blessing. Wouldn't you agree that the current system which allows for groups (or some would say demand) to stand still and spam a single key over and over (Mag's #1, Nekros #3, Vauban's 3 or 4)to gain rewards over all other options is a bit broken? I've been in some of these runs and I've nearly fallen asleep spamming a single key over and over. It's not fair to those players whose job is the equivalent of Stanley from the Stanley Parable. 

 

There are multiple issues with survival and drops in general, but it's bad for the long term health of the game for the current meta to exist in its current state.

This is their problem. Otherwise you play without camp if you won't.

[nothing429]

The current camp setups don't lack for killing mobs,  it is actually quite efficient at just that with or without a speed Nova.

 

The current spawn mechanics and general idea of Survival lends itself to a camp setup whether it be a single room, sewer, or dead end area.

You're right. The main goal of my proposition is to change the meta to one where players are actively encouraged to move around, to focus more on the life support modules instead of RNG life support drops from mobs. Making it so killing mobs and activating life support work in tandem is the goal. In the current camping meta, rarely are life support modules activated because mobs generate all the LS players need. Why risk moving around the map when there is no incentive? 

[420degreequicksopeswag]

I believe I've come up with an idea to solve the issue of camping in Survival missions. The basic premise is to force players to move around a given survival map continuously while making use of as many existing in-game mechanics as possible. 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/430730-am-i-the-only-one-who-enjoys-campingcampers-unite/#entry4774652

 

Umm

 

I, and probably a very large amount of players, LIKE camping, why are you trying to force players to play a certain way?

What is wrong with camping?

 

If people want to camp, why not let them?

Edited April 8, 2015 by 420degreequicksopeswag

[nothing429]

No no, I know, let's make the AFK detection system even better :

If you do not move for more than 3 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and you're kicked out of the game.

If you use your powers but do not move within 5 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and kicked out of the game.

If you shoot but do not move within 5 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and kicked out of the game.

If you don't 360 noscope yoloswag roll once every 10 seconds, you're tagged as AFK and kicked out of the game.

This would drastically reduce camping and would make players move more.

Everyone would be happy this way.. right?!

Just in case : /s

Hehe, I don't know of any player that approves with the hastily thrown in afk system. This post really isn't about that at all, just about changing the camping meta to something that encourages players to move about the map more. As it stands, people get irked even when you leave the same tile your group is in because it messes with the spawns (and, as a result, kills the LS drop rate from mobs). The camping meta is toxic (and frankly, boring) and isn't good for the long term health of the game. 

[nothing429]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/430730-am-i-the-only-one-who-enjoys-campingcampers-unite/#entry4774652

 

Umm

 

I, and probably a very large amount of players, LIKE camping, why are you trying to force players to play a certain way?

What is wrong with camping?

 

If people want to camp, why not let them?

Do you believe the camping meta is a good thing for the community and for the game's longevity as a whole? I realize some people like camping (I personally find it boring), but I can also see the toxicity it is bringing to the community. Not to mention how Nekros (and now Mag for camping) are considered essential for survival. It's difficult to bring a group to survival without including certain Warframes because they have been made almost mandatory by the current mechanics. 

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Do you believe the camping meta is a good thing for the community and for the game's longevity as a whole? I realize some people like camping (I personally find it boring), but I can also see the toxicity it is bringing to the community. Not to mention how Nekros (and now Mag for camping) are considered essential for survival. It's difficult to bring a group to survival without including certain Warframes because they have been made almost mandatory by the current mechanics. 

Toxicity? All of my squadmates at "camp sites" are VERY friendly, as long as you don't  go off killing yourself/radiation proc/leaving the camp site.

 

Nekros=survival

Frost=Defense

Vauban=ODD

Loki/Ash=spy missions

Volt=Captures and invasions

 

etc. etc.

 

Warframes were probably designed to fill certain roles.

[nothing429]

Toxicity? All of my squadmates at "camp sites" are VERY friendly, as long as you don't  go off killing yourself/radiation proc/leaving the camp site.

 

Nekros=survival

Frost=Defense

Vauban=ODD

Loki/Ash=spy missions

Volt=Captures and invasions

 

etc. etc.

 

Warframes were probably designed to fill certain roles.

I can't deny that nearly all Warframes in the game fill a certain niche. However, for all of the examples you gave, none of these frames could be considered mandatory for their respective mission type. Limbo is a good alternative to frost in Defense, for instance. Nekros, up until recently, had no alternative at all. If Nekros' desecrate no longer yielded LS drops, he would still be used. He creates loot and health orbs at a very good rate with desecrate. He would still have a niche, while not being mandatory for survival missions.

[DSpite]

Defense and Survival are not about defending or surviving. They have just turned into a farming exercise for parts people need.

 

We should have a reward system that actually rewards us for doing proper objectives, with time limits, and specific missions parameters, not create a situation where we just create super-specialized builds in order to squeeze as many waves or minutes from a map before RSI sets in.

 

If we have to keep running this damn missions with the core mechanics unchanged, then at least make them like in the Alerts. Set waves of 5 or 10 or 20 that count down, with a more rapid enemy unit scaling per wave, so that the people that are running 1 hour+ endless stuff can get the same result in 15-20 minutes, but with an increased lethality, and better rewards. Make failure a more likely scenario, but also the risk-reward system. You are locked in until that last wave, you no longer just get to pull out, and you also won't get people just leaving because something they really need popped up.

 

We already know they can play the first 45 minutes of that 60 minutes half asleep. Why are we still forcing those people to suffer, with the added problem that a random disconnection will just bring the show to a halt?

[Valar.Morghulis]

Since when is "Camping" is a problem and if it is does it really need a "fix"?

 

When you call camping I call a "tactic" the idea that i can position my self in such a way to limit my exposure to the enemy and more effective destroy the enemy despite the greater numbers and strength.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/430730-am-i-the-only-one-who-enjoys-campingcampers-unite/#entry4774652

 

Umm

 

I, and probably a very large amount of players, LIKE camping, why are you trying to force players to play a certain way?

What is wrong with camping?

 

If people want to camp, why not let them?

 

I agree that forcing people to play one way is not the right answer. I play Survival in both camping and non-camping methods because each game/group is different and left face it being organized is more effective. Most of the time the non-camping Survival missions are because we have a number of PUG's in the group, they are interested in doing their own thing and will not listen to strategy. That is fine I can expect a 20min extraction and there is nothing wrong with that but if i get 4 friends and we use an organized strategy that is nothing wrong with that eaither.

 

Do you believe the camping meta is a good thing for the community and for the game's longevity as a whole? I realize some people like camping (I personally find it boring), but I can also see the toxicity it is bringing to the community. Not to mention how Nekros (and now Mag for camping) are considered essential for survival. It's difficult to bring a group to survival without including certain Warframes because they have been made almost mandatory by the current mechanics. 

 

You are projecting the fact that you do not like the strategy, camping is a tactic and by it self there is nothing wrong or "toxic" about it. It becomes toxic when people go on to the forums and say "the way you play is wrong and it should be fixed". Camping is a tactic and it is very effective and it us fun for many people not because they are ninja running around the map killing enemies, but because they work together and can have casual conversations and enjoy them selfs. I get more enjoyment from being effective and getting loot even if that means i have to give up some freedom in the name of "team work".

 

You know what i find obnoxious and boring to me when 3 of us are working together in a large room and one person runs off then all the sudden there are zero enemies to kill. I also hate when someone goes down and can't revive because they strayed 6 rooms off and we are forced extract early because their idea of fun is different then our idea of fun.

 

You call it camping because you don't like it, but in a Defense Mission it is called defending. How about we let people play the game the way they enjoy, the mete will alway shift back and forth from strategic defending (camping) and free form (YOLO-Idiot-Solo-Play) group play.