Ash Invisibility Is Disorienting

[mogamu]

Ok, so I did a forum search and couldn't figure out if this has been addressed by DE yet, but here goes.

 

I stopped playing as because my favorite skill, invisibility, is just too disorienting not being able to see myself.  This is because as a third person shooter with an over the shoulder camera, its hard to judge movement speed and spacial location without being able to at least see the wire-frame of my character.  The only reason I bring this up is because I'm not really sure if it is a priority to change this but if it isn't, I would like to build a little more interest in this. 

 

If this was a FPS then it would make sense, but as a 3rd person shooter I (personally) really feel the need to see my character to some degree to handle movement and depth perception a little better.

 

 

[ultimatesacrifice]

There is nothing disorienting about Ash's Smoke Screen, you just need to practice to get the feel of it.

[Jumba255]

I use ASH almost constantly when i got him and for the first few days i had trouble with the aim of my melee weapons but everything else was fine. Like ultimatesacrifice said it just takes practice.

[mogamu]

There is nothing disorienting about Ash's Smoke Screen, you just need to practice to get the feel of it.

 

I have been level 30/60 on that frame for a while, and Im not getting used to it lol.

[Cursor]

It would be helpful if you could see yourself, absolutely.  Frankly, if they made the model invisible but just kept it's smoke particle (or maybe jacked it up) that would sufficiently solve the problem, I think.

[elindred]

+1.

 

By being completely invisible you lose access to visual cues about what your Warframe is doing. Am I winding up for a charge attack, or did the game just register a regular melee attack? Or did I just finish putting my melee weapon away so I have to wait to charge melee again? Or am I still knocked down from the nearby shockwave moa, or have I managed to stand back up in time? Stuff like that makes being able to see your own frame very important. 

[Zerkev]

It's a con to his pro, I say stay with the current ver. On the other hand his Shuriken and Blade Storm needs to change, Shuriken is a waste of 25 energy because you're not even sure if it's going to hit the target and Blade Storm needs a MAJOR change to it's visual effects, also it's slow as hell. The cyropod would probably be dead before you're done casting Blade Storm.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Zerkev

[Cursor]

It's a con to his pro, I say stay with the current ver. On the other hand his Shuriken and Blade Storm needs to change, Shuriken is a waste of 25 energy because you're not even sure if it's going to hit the target and Blade Storm needs a MAJOR change to it's visual effects. 

I don't see why a con like this needs to be kept in the game.  It's simply confusing to not be able to see your character model.  What's the benefit of keeping it as is besides sparing some time in development?

 

I really do think keeping the model invisible but outlining him with the smoke particle would be a good solution, but regardless, the player needs to be able to see their character.

[Phoenix86]

They should make it just like Loki, that's it

 

I know one can pratice.. and will do it, but still...

[Zerkev]

I don't see why a con like this needs to be kept in the game.  It's simply confusing to not be able to see your character model.  What's the benefit of keeping it as is besides sparing some time in development?

 

I really do think keeping the model invisible but outlining him with the smoke particle would be a good solution, but regardless, the player needs to be able to see their character.

The invisible character model is not the issue, it's the weapon being invisible that's the problem so instead of suggesting an outline for the character why not outline the weapon instead? TBH I don't have any problems being invisible unless I'm using the Paris.

[Feldgrep]

I have been level 30/60 on that frame for a while, and Im not getting used to it lol.

Level 60?

[Cursor]

The invisible character model is not the issue, it's the weapon being invisible that's the problem so instead of suggesting an outline for the character why not outline the weapon instead? TBH I don't have any problems being invisible unless I'm using the Paris.

So you'd prefer just floating weapon models, semivisible or otherwise, to a fully invisible character?  I'm not sure I like that idea.  It'd look...weird.

 

Level 60?

He means he's potatoed.  I think.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Cursor

[elindred]

It's a con to his pro, I say stay with the current ver.

 

It has good properties, and therefore it should have bad properties (which include losing a great deal of ability to control your character)? Not much of an argument. We could use the same logic here:

 

On the other hand his Shuriken and Blade Storm needs to change, Shuriken is a waste of 25 energy because you're not even sure if it's going to hit the target and Blade Storm needs a MAJOR change to it's visual effects, also it's slow as hell.

They both have good properties. Therefore, they should continue to be hard to hit (Shuriken) and slow as hell (Blade Storm).

 

 

 

The invisible character model is not the issue...

It's exactly the issue. Not knowing what state your character is in makes it impossible to properly choose a next course of action without guessing or mashing. The only way to fix that is to make the player model visible to the player in some way, like in every other game where your character has invisibility.

[Zerkev]

It has good properties, and therefore it should have bad properties (which include losing a great deal of ability to control your character)? Not much of an argument. We could use the same logic here:

 

They both have good properties. Therefore, they should continue to be hard to hit (Shuriken) and slow as hell (Blade Storm).

 

 

 

It's exactly the issue. Not knowing what state your character is in makes it impossible to properly choose a next course of action without guessing or mashing. The only way to fix that is to make the player model visible to the player in some way, like in every other game where your character has invisibility.

Please elaborate on how being invisible causes you to lose control of your character. It does not bother me if Blade Storm stays the way it is but you have to admit the visual effects is bad and are you trying to say you want Shuriken to remain a situational and largely unused skill? 

[Cursor]

Please elaborate on how being invisible causes you to lose control of your character. It does not bother me if Blade Storm stays the way it is but you have to admit the visual effects is bad and are you trying to say you want Shuriken to remain a situational and largely unused skill? 

If you don't know where exactly you are, you lose a degree of control.  Whether it's moving or attacking, not knowing exactly where you are relative to your opponents causes ambiguity of action and guesswork.

[elindred]

Please elaborate on how being invisible causes you to lose control of your character.

Imagine trying to wall run jump while invisible, or jump over a chasm. You need to know where your character is to time those jumps. Imagine if you were knocked down and you wanted to do a charged melee attack on wake up. How do you know when to start timing the attack if you don't know what state your character is in? I hope it's clear now what we mean by saying you need to be able yo see your character in order to be able to control him.

It does not bother me if Blade Storm stays the way it is but you have to admit the visual effects is bad and are you trying to say you want Shuriken to remain a situational and largely unused skill?

I was being rhetorical, pointing out the flaws in your previous argument.

[Zerkev]

Imagine trying to wall run jump while invisible, or jump over a chasm. You need to know where your character is to time those jumps. Imagine if you were knocked down and you wanted to do a charged melee attack on wake up. How do you know when to start timing the attack if you don't know what state your character is in? I hope it's clear now what we mean by saying you need to be able yo see your character in order to be able to control him.

Your character is always in the center of your screen, it does not matter invisible or no, how hard is it to grasp that? As for the state in which your character is in, not moving = down, moving = not down, tap whatever direction and if you're moving you are up after which you can do your charge melee. You lose maybe half a second or so. I understand the wanting the ease of having everything in front of you and it's not wrong. In the end it's up to DE to change this however they want.

[elindred]

I understand the wanting the ease of having everything in front of you and it's not wrong.

Having reliable awareness of your character state should be a given. There's no good reason to suspend that in this case.

In the end it's up to DE to change this however they want.

True, but again a non point. It's up to them how shuriken and blade storm work as well. The point is that they should change how they work.

[Cursor]

Your character is always in the center of your screen, it does not matter invisible or no, how hard is it to grasp that? As for the state in which your character is in, not moving = down, moving = not down, tap whatever direction and if you're moving you are up after which you can do your charge melee. You lose maybe half a second or so. I understand the wanting the ease of having everything in front of you and it's not wrong. In the end it's up to DE to change this however they want.

It literally is not in the center of the screen.  It's slightly to the left.

 

This is precisely the reason first person platforming is difficult.  When you can't see your feel (your exact position), and you can't contextualize the distance between your character and nearby hazards and obstacles, things become more difficult.  It's not the biggest deal breaker in the world, but not being able to see your avatar is absolutely a detriment.

 

Being half an inch in the wrong direction can be the difference between a hit and dicing the air, wallrunning or skipping right off a cliff.  We need to be able to judge that distance accurately.

[Motox831]

+ 1