Please Remove Ember's Wof Duration.

[Sunfaiz]

Let's be honest here. Ember is still broken. After looking at the new augment mod I do see some utility potential in her. However, the fact of he matter is in order to use it I need to give up a slot on a frame that requires HEAVY modding just to make her sub-par.

                                        

Note: Opinion inbound. 

 

The energy consumption is  extremely high and the only reason I think of to keep duration is to discourage players from using fleeting expertise on her...Why ? Will she become too OP with the worst damage type ingame ? She already needs damage so Either transient or Blind rage are going to be on (optimally both). You have done us no favors by making it toggleable and in some cases you've actually made it worse.

 

 

I know alot of people don't play ember and while I am open to criticism,Please do you research before commenting.

 

Lets work towards a world on fire !

 

Edit: Sayrn Vs Ember (not mine)

Edited April 21, 2015 by Sunfaiz

[HawKish]

don't want duration? don't build for it

[(PSN)superdonell]

don't want duration? don't build for it

its clear you did not understand what the orginal author was tying to say. He wants ember to either have a timer or have the constant energy drain. In future posts i hope you fully analyze the situation before taking action. Also i agree with the author.

[Sunfaiz]

its clear you did not understand what the orginal author was tying to say. He wants ember to either have a timer or have the constant energy drain. In future posts i hope you fully analyze the situation before taking action. Also i agree with the author.

Thank you. I thought I was going crazy  or that i missed something

[BowboyBeemboop]

Yeah, I don't know what DE was thinking when they made WoF a togglable ability but kept the duration. Every other warframe with a similar ability mechanic doesn't have a timer on them.

[(PSN)excat_56]

I would agree OP. I was hoping the fix would actually help her, but it didn't, it hurt her. She's still stuck in my dust closet. She really needs augments that would change her element type, along with a fix for WOF, it's way too expensive. Maybe augments for adding in toxin/electric/or cold damage which would then give her powers either gas, radiation, or blast. It could really help her out. (Along with augment slot for said augment). It would actually give you a chance to make her powers at least viable to more than one faction. 

 

It is sad though that augments can and probably will be the only way to use her. 

 

Also, still being dependent on accelerate for any viable use sucks for her abilities. 

 

If they did full reworks of Ember and Excal, they would be pretty much adding 2 new warframes to the game. 

[Bibliothekar]

don't want duration? don't build for it

[ ] You read and understood the OP.

 

While I don't exactly agree that Heat is the worst damage type in the game (it's more like a Jack of All Trades, Master of None - I took her for the last TA and had fun watching WoF blow up the Manics as soon as they uncloaked), her ult indeed suffers from devs' indecisiveness. While the other frames with toggle-able ult (Banshee, Chroma, Limbo, Mirage) offer CC potential and don't have to be build that much for power strength, Ember was designed as a heavy-damage nuke frame. Which just doesn't go together with our current corrupted mods.

 

Every other warframe with a similar ability mechanic doesn't have a timer on them.

Incorrect. Prism has a max duration of 12s. However, you don't notice the ability running out that much because you either cancel it prematurely yourself (for the blinding effect) or the ball is on the other side of the room, while World on Fire erupts around you and is more visible.

Cataclysm (30s duration) can be cancelled prematurely as well, but it has a fixed cost of 100, so there's not much point in doing so unless you misplaced it or it's otherwise blocking your way.

Soundquake and Effigy are static abilities, so I guess they dropped the duration for those because you'll want to cancel them at some point so you can keep up with your team.

 

/e: Forgot Mesa. Her ult is again static and without duration, so lowered duration only hurts your survivability via Shatter Shield while you're using Peacemaker.

/e2: Forgot Nyx as well. [size=1]*hangs head in shame*[/size] Again static ult. Also not really a point in a power strength build, unless you're going primarily for Mind Freak and Psychic Bolts. Eh.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[ndantony]

I think it's a fair request. There are already few other frames have constant energy drain with abilities.

[Heidrek]

Yeah Ember is in the worst state she's been in and quite lackluster to the other frames.

[(PSN)excat_56]

 

Incorrect. Prism has a max duration of 12s. However, you don't notice the ability running out that much because you either cancel it prematurely yourself (for the blinding effect) or the ball is on the other side of the room, while World on Fire erupts around you and is more visible.

 

  Prism has a fixed cost though, does it not? 

 

I only played ember once since the "fix" before I put her up again, but her ult costs XX energy to cast, and costs XX energy per second to keep it on, right? Or am I not remembering it correctly? 50 to cast + 5 energy per second to maintain. So, you are at 55 energy for 1 second of use, where other frames with like abilities either cost just the casting cost, or very very reduced cost per second with little to cost to cast.

 

You look at mesa and nyx on the adverse though, which are high damage ults, and their cost per duration is much lower, and yields better results by far, and you don't HAVE to put every power strength mod on them for them to work, which allows you to actually make them efficient in using their ults. 

[Bibliothekar]

Prism has a fixed cost though, does it not?

Nope. 50 for the initial cast + 10/sec. But again, Prism has the additional effect of blinding all enemies in range when ended. Now, if Ember had something similar ... Alas, all she has is that arbitrary cap on how many enemies are affected by her ability (which is left over from the previous version), even if one of the pillars erupts in a group of enemies. And it looks like that isn't going to leave because other players will complain about her being "too OP" then, while they liquefy entire rooms in a second with Miasma or what have you.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I actually want all channeled abilities to be like World on Fire: Channeled and Duration based - so Fleeting Expertise is not passively bypassed.....

[(PSN)excat_56]

Nope. 50 for the initial cast + 10/sec. But again, Prism has the additional effect of blinding all enemies in range when ended. Now, if Ember had something similar ... Alas, all she has is that arbitrary cap on how many enemies are affected by her ability (which is left over from the previous version), even if one of the pillars erupts in a group of enemies. And it looks like that isn't going to leave because other players will complain about her being "too OP" while they liquefy entire rooms in a second with Miasma or what have you.

 

 

Dang, never paid attention to that then! lol. I hardly ever use it though, it's just the oh crap when I need a few seconds in case someone goes down. I build her around her other abilities. 

[Bibliothekar]

I actually want all channeled abilities to be like World on Fire: Channeled and Duration based - so Fleeting Expertise is not passively bypassed.....

I don't know, I'm actually somewhat ok with how it is at the moment. They (viz. DE) just have to be more consistent. If the ability makes your frame stationary (Banshee, Mesa, Nyx), don't allow them to refill their energy (from any source) while casting it. You'll have to cancel it at some point to either get to your team or pick up more energy (in Defense / Mobile Defense).

If the ability allows you to move around and continue to engage the enemy (Ember, Mirage), put a reasonable max duration on it, but allow the player to pick up energy orbs to fuel his other abilities as well.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[SgtFlex]

Yeah Ember is in the worst state she's been in and quite lackluster to the other frames.

I don't think that's the case, because she's a lot better since her buffs. That's not to say that she still needs a bit more buffing though.

[Sunfaiz]

I don't know, I'm actually somewhat ok with how it is at the moment. They (viz. DE) just have to be more consistent. If the ability makes your frame stationary (Banshee, Mesa, Nyx), don't allow them to refill their energy (from any source) while casting it. You'll have to cancel it at some point to either get to your team or pick up more energy (in Defense / Mobile Defense).

If the ability allows you to move around and continue to engage the enemy (Ember, Mirage), put a reasonable max duration on it, but allow the player to pick up energy orbs to fuel his other abilities as well.

But doesn't GP mag negate this? 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I don't know, I'm actually somewhat ok with how it is at the moment. They (viz. DE) just have to be more consistent. If the ability makes your frame stationary (Banshee, Mesa, Nyx), don't allow them to refill their energy (from any source) while casting it. You'll have to cancel it at some point to either get to your team or pick up more energy (in Defense / Mobile Defense).

If the ability allows you to move around and continue to engage the enemy (Ember, Mirage), put a reasonable max duration on it, but allow the player to pick up energy orbs to fuel his other abilities as well.

  

But doesn't GP mag negate this?

I think he means they would have to stop their ability to actually still collect the orbs.

Currently yes Greedy pull or Limbo negate the need to stop channeling ability.

But if all channeled abilities were also susceptible to duration mods.....

[Sunfaiz]

But if all channeled abilities were also susceptible to duration mods.....

 They would be as inefficient as wof. Not saying people would stop using them. I'm saying people would be angry.

 

also dont go around giving DE ideas. They are on a hot-streak of bad decisions lately.

[BattledOne]

  

I think he means they would have to stop their ability to actually still collect the orbs.

Currently yes Greedy pull or Limbo negate the need to stop channeling ability.

But if all channeled abilities were also susceptible to duration mods.....

What good would that actually make?

[(PSN)excat_56]

What good would that actually make?

 

 

Good is subjective, and in this case my opinion is it wouldn't be good, probably along with a majority of people. 

 

In the context though, he means if energy picks up were like with Mesa when she is in her ult. She is unable to regain energy while in her ult (unless she is banished by limbo), as in you don't pick up energy orbs or get energy from energy restores while using ult. --- Lame, but it is what keep Mesa from being completely broken. I can't see it being anything but bad for other frames though. 

[ARavenousPanda]

i feel alot of people commenting here are basing ot off other warframes and not their experience with ember. In my opinon, having gone out and formaing ember 3 times and giving her own kit (which i also formad 1-3 times) all she needs is either a completely toggleable 4th (fire damage sucks @$$ atm, and the ability limits itself already by only hitting set number of targets per tick), remove maximum targets hit or give it 2-3 times more base duration, so that we can actually pump the damage to something useful (comparative to other 4ths in a similar situation)

 

The only 4th that doesnt really compete is banshees, and hers will hit EVERY target i range and has an INBUILT stagger. MIrage's 4th is mobile, hits everything for alot and then blinds. duration isnt even a consideration. Nyx's is highly defensive, and scales pretty well (especially with primed flow out now). Limbo's 4th? well that makes everyone oinside it pretty much untouchable and regenerates energy. he can then select certain enemies the team can mow down, or with some assistance force fights within the bubble. Its not super amazing but its not bad either. Chromas 4th creates a decoy that has decent cc and damage, at the cost of some armor but gaining speed, it hast huge utility and fits his kit nicely. Mesa... well i left her for last because its ridiculous. yes its static, but it has insane range, easily hits for 2.5k+ PER SHOT while lasting ages.

 

but the argument isnt so much that others 4th are better, its just than embers feels both un-useable and punishing when trying to use it. maximum targets, toggelable AND duration kinda nerfs itself.

[Suthurn]

i think ember is one of the best looking frames and has some interesting abilities, but she just doesn't have what this game requires for high end play.

 

it doesn't really matter if they change things to toggle or force you to burn all your energy to use multiple abilities to do real damage (accelerant). once enemies get much over level 40 it simply doesn't matter. a level 50 heavy can take 10-20 thousand damage to kill. what good is burning up all your energy trying to do that? and it just continues to get worse from there. mid 40 light units even take a few thousand damage which is more than most damage powers will ever see.

 

i don't really see adding more mods being a solution either, because we are limited on mod slots. if you need 12 mods to make a frame comparably functional to the other top-end frames, well that is just broken to begin with because its not possible. once you get done with standard mods to be able to survive and have efficiency there just isn't much room left over. when there are frames that can function well within these confines while others like ember need more mods than will fit it just exasperates the problem.

 

i know it is not fair to say it, but at times it almost seems like the devs don't even play this game when they do things. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Suthurn

[Latronico]

Nyx's Absorb is not the exact thing of Ember's World of Fire... 

Absorb, in fact, absorb all incoming damage and turn it into damage to enemies, without a limit. At high levels, or when other players are helping (shooting at Nyx for example) that Warframe is able to deal a lot of damage.

World of Fire always deal the same amount of damage. Furthermore, it's not an AoE, in fact it hit casually all around the Warframe. Nyx's Absorb, instead, in a true AoE that hit everything in range. 

 

So, the fact that other abilities require the player to stay immobile doen't mean nothing, because most of them are just OP as Hek (another example is aimbot-Mesa), because all of them are TRUE AoE (not like 'I'll hit all around casually', a.k.a. World of Fire) and because they also deal good amount of damage. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Latronico

[traybong111]

There was a large megathread on Ember here and I remember toggleable WoF being one of the top demands on that thread--DE has never once responded to it. I think it's clear what DE wants WoF to be, and the most reasonable "fix" we could hope for WoF is maybe a slight increase to its duration and/or range. Firequake/knockdown should have been innnate with its short duration but...oh well. 

[Sunfaiz]

There was a large megathread on Ember here and I remember toggleable WoF being one of the top demands on that thread--DE has never once responded to it. I think it's clear what DE wants WoF to be, and the most reasonable "fix" we could hope for WoF is maybe a slight increase to its duration and/or range. Firequake/knockdown should have been innnate with its short duration but...oh well. 

We'll make them Listen. We'll keep spamming threads about this. Maybe  with the fact that they are rebalancing her for PVP might mean they would have a look at her in PVE aswell. FIngers crossed for any improvements.