Getting Real Sick Of Having To Sell Weapons To Make Room For New Ones

[liavalenth]

The Developers have plenty of other avenues to make money, I've even suggested having us EARN slots as well through buying them with credits but no the fanboys wont have that.

I completely agree that you should be able to earn slots. I also believe they are working on making it so you will be able to earn additional slots. From my understanding you will likely earn them through Mastery Rank. If/When they make this possible much of the problem will go away. I do not like the idea of using credits, unless it is a ridiculous amount, say 500K for your first warframe and 200K for your first weapon slot and double the cost every time.

 

As per your other notes;

1) I disagree, the cost is low enough that you can get every warframe and weapon for less than $30, and the ones you like for likely less than $20. It is other things (mostly warframes and weapons) that have ridiculous price points.

2) Completely Agree. People who say it does not restrict gameplay are fooling themselves.

3) Your right, this shrugs off the problem. It does not help it.

[PhantomWay]

One of good thing would be the rank unlocked remain there, even if you sell the weapon. So when you re-purchase/build it, the Rank is still there, so if your dislike the new weapon, just re-take older one at previous level.

And it would be nice if you can pay (es. 100.000) credits for "taking out" the catalyst/reactor before selling the weapon.

[PhantomWay]

I agree...the system is stupid.

 

It's just that.........every other game out there doesn't restrict item possession like Warframe does. 

Trying to defend this system is just fanboy behavior. 

 

I'm not defending the system, but... there are other games that have this slot system....

World of Tanks, for more garage slot, you pay gold (platinum).

Tera Online, other character slot after first 2 cost money... (better creating another account)

Battlefiled Play4Free, if not changed, was similar, first 2 class free, third slot or more money...

[rhoenix]

I agree...the system is stupid.

 

It's just that.........every other game out there doesn't restrict item possession like Warframe does. 

Trying to defend this system is just fanboy behavior. 

 

I was laughing for about a full minute after I read this.  And then I realized you were serious.

 

Let's see a list of examples from this "every other game out there" list of yours that you're comparing things against.  Go on - I want to see some examples from this list of magical games that are free to play and yet don't restrict item possession in any way.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Buy a slot.

[Caliocerion]

Planetside 2, if you want to buy a new weapon, be prepared to grind 1000 certs or 2000 kills. Most people make on average 25 certs per hour. If you want a new weapon, be prepared to grind for more than 40 hours assuming you don't get sidetracked purchasing upgrades for your class and stuffs.

[AgentNipple]

One of good thing would be the rank unlocked remain there, even if you sell the weapon. So when you re-purchase/build it, the Rank is still there, so if your dislike the new weapon, just re-take older one at previous level.

And it would be nice if you can pay (es. 100.000) credits for "taking out" the catalyst/reactor before selling the weapon.

THIS

[AgentNipple]

I was laughing for about a full minute after I read this.  And then I realized you were serious.

 

Let's see a list of examples from this "every other game out there" list of yours that you're comparing things against.  Go on - I want to see some examples from this list of magical games that are free to play and yet don't restrict item possession in any way.

Hawken, League of Legends, War Thunder, (I would say APB but its pay to win hell even then APB allows you infinite amounts of items but their systems are kinda different), World of Tanks, Planet Side 2, Blacklight: Retribution, Global Agenda, Combat Arms. Need anymore?

Hey get this also as a kicker... War Thunder and Hawken are currently in their beta phases as well and I've played Combat Arms, Global Agenda and Planet Side 2 during their betas, and they all used the system: "Let the players work for it or have the option to pay for it." Except Global Agenda which just recently became F2P as it used to be a purchase title but the system is still the same with micro transactions.

Edited May 17, 2013 by AgentNipple

[rhoenix]

Hawken, League of Legends, War Thunder, (I would say APB but its pay to win hell even then APB allows you infinite amounts of items but their systems are kinda different), World of Tanks, Planet Side 2, Blacklight: Retribution, Global Agenda, Combat Arms. Need anymore?

 

I haven't played most of those games, but the very fact that you included World of Tanks in your list shoots yourself right in the foot, unless you're somehow claiming that World of Tanks somehow has no item or slot restrictions for free players.

 

Moreover, the entire point of my reply was to point out that ALL f2p games introduce artificial restrictions to players in order to encourage them to cough up money.  A non-paying player of Warframe can acquire every weapon and warframe, the only restriction being number of slots used.

 

Can you honestly say the same about World of Tanks?  The very fact that premium tanks in that game are much better than the tanks you can get through gameplay doesn't help either.

Edited May 17, 2013 by rhoenix

[deathscion]

There are plenty of other things they can monetize. The current slot system means that people that want to keep their weapons will have to pay for slots every time they get a new weapon for the entirety of the game's life. That's ridiculous.

Seriously do people actually need to collect every weapon in the game? I personally have two sets I use and other than that I really don't need more. If something new comes out I can still try it out and see if i like it or not. Right now the ONLY things you cant get in game for free are EXTRA slots for weapons and frames, They also happen to be the cheapest possible things you can buy for platinum. I have played a lot of "FTP" games and some of them restrict level caps, experience gains, and even more major things. If you can spend a week of playing and not use a weapon, no matter how much invested time, there is no need to keep it.

 

One thing that really annoys me is when people give founders crap in these types of threads. Games don't make themselves and If you cant pay a bit of money to unlock a few slots then you should be thanking the founders because they made it possible for you to play an enjoyable game for free.

[AgentNipple]

I haven't played most of those games, but the very fact that you included World of Tanks in your list shoots yourself right in the foot, unless you're somehow claiming that World of Tanks somehow has no item or slot restrictions for free players.

 

Moreover, the entire point of my reply was to point out that ALL f2p games introduce artificial restrictions to players in order to encourage them to cough up money.  A non-paying player of Warframe can acquire every weapon and warframe, the only restriction being number of slots used.

 

Can you honestly say the same about World of Tanks?  The very fact that premium tanks in that game are much better than the tanks you can get through gameplay doesn't help either.

Ah thats true, then again you can earn gold though through clan matches which you are in turn allowed to use for your own personal ventures. Also, the premium tanks aren't all that better... I know I've ripped em apart and even driven them so... anything else? 

Also thats... one out of all the other I mentioned? Yeah?

Edited May 17, 2013 by AgentNipple

[AgentNipple]

Seriously do people actually need to collect every weapon in the game? I personally have two sets I use and other than that I really don't need more. If something new comes out I can still try it out and see if i like it or not. Right now the ONLY things you cant get in game for free are EXTRA slots for weapons and frames, They also happen to be the cheapest possible things you can buy for platinum. I have played a lot of "FTP" games and some of them restrict level caps, experience gains, and even more major things. If you can spend a week of playing and not use a weapon, no matter how much invested time, there is no need to keep it.

 

One thing that really annoys me is when people give founders crap in these types of threads. Games don't make themselves and If you cant pay a bit of money to unlock a few slots then you should be thanking the founders because they made it possible for you to play an enjoyable game for free.

Yes, that's great for you, some of us dont want to delete anything we pumped effort into because there's no real benefit to that, that's true so it wouldn't really hurt the Dev's to make them earnable now would it? And I do too go back and use my other weapons from the past.

I have actually tried being civil before but you know... that doesn't really work with the people that think we should all pump in a bunch of money so I find it absolutely terrible that I did have to bash a part of the game just to generate more input, don't get me wrong I completely support the Dev's with their game and this game has massive potential to stand out. If you need my past thread on this you can find it here:  (Not trying to revive a dead thread, just backing up my words)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/40236-slots/

[rhoenix]

Ah thats true, then again you can earn gold though through clan matches which you are in turn allowed to use for your own personal ventures. Also, the premium tanks aren't all that better... I know I've ripped em apart and even driven them so... anything else? 

Also thats... one out of all the other I mentioned? Yeah?

 

I've never been a very avid player of WoT, but the disparity at the time I quit playing between premium tanks and non-premium tanks was pretty stark.  Saying "yes you can shoot them and maybe even blow them up" in no way disproves this point.  The armor values and hit points of premium tanks outshine the tanks available to free players, and the values of such are freely available for comparison.  Now, I will admit that I never bothered playing with a clan, since I was still evaluating the game -  however, what I saw during that time didn't help my initial impression, and was what prevented me from playing for very long, or spending any money on it.

 

I won't speak to the other games on your list, because I personally have not played them - therefore, I cannot pass judgement on them in the context of free players vs. paying players of a F2P game.  

 

The one other I can speak to is SWTOR, and the paid "options" one has to get for "convenience" are ridiculous.  Being able to send mail to another player in an MMO should not be an option, and that's not even bothering to get into all the rest of how badly that implementation of a F2P system in SWTOR went.

[HexCaliber]

as for me, i am disabled and live on a small disability check once a month. after rent, paying the bills, putting gas in the truck, etc. i have no money to spend on plat most of the time. if i want to buy plat, i have to roam the roadside and pick up aluminum cans to sell just to get 5 or ten bucks worth, which since i am disabled, is very hard for me to do.

With respect, while I certainly do not know your personal situation I too live off a disability pension, its actually a war pension, and as anyone will tell you they don't amount to a great deal, but I can still find money for plat. Most of the people I have met that say they cannot afford x, y or z, still find money to smoke and/or drink, it may well mean dropping that little treat you get yourself but for most people, in reality a couple of quid once in a blue moon is doable.

 

 

I've never been a very avid player of WoT, but the disparity at the time I quit playing between premium tanks and non-premium tanks was pretty stark.  Saying "yes you can shoot them and maybe even blow them up" in no way disproves this point.  The armor values and hit points of premium tanks outshine the tanks available to free players, and the values of such are freely available for comparison.  Now, I will admit that I never bothered playing with a clan, since I was still evaluating the game -  however, what I saw during that time didn't help my initial impression, and was what prevented me from playing for very long, or spending any money on it.

 

I am afraid this is complete nonsense, and a rumor spread by those that have never played premium tanks, they imagine they must be superior because they get their arse kicked by someone driving one. However, they dont stop to think that it is those who are generally more interested in a game that will spend money and therefore know how to get the best from any tank they drive.

 

I no longer play the game as several cammo paint schemes went missing from my account during a two month period and while they acknowledged they could see the items had been bought and there was no activity on the account during the stated period they refused to reimburse or replace the items. I only mention this as I am certainly no fan of wargaming, but premium tanks are NOT pay to win, regardless of the occasional tears to the contrary.

Edited May 17, 2013 by HexCaliber

[MotherCorpus]

I need to start saving all these repeated topics so I can reply with a giant list of the same topics.

[BlastGoggles]

The purpose of a business is to make money, and DE can't always give everything away for earnable ways as it needs this funding to continue developing the game and paying the employee's wages. Yes, slots should be earnable, potatoes potentially too, and no my founder's status has nothing to do with my opinions. Lack of slots absolutely restricts gameplay's liquidity in leveling items but like any free 2 play game DE kind of has to pressure people to buy platinum so they can stay afloat.

[deathscion]

Yes, that's great for you, some of us dont want to delete anything we pumped effort into because there's no real benefit to that, that's true so it wouldn't really hurt the Dev's to make them earnable now would it? And I do too go back and use my other weapons from the past.

I have actually tried being civil before but you know... that doesn't really work with the people that think we should all pump in a bunch of money so I find it absolutely terrible that I did have to bash a part of the game just to generate more input, don't get me wrong I completely support the Dev's with their game and this game has massive potential to stand out. If you need my past thread on this you can find it here:  (Not trying to revive a dead thread, just backing up my words)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/40236-slots/

I know how hard it is to abandon weapons that you have leveled and especially ones that you put a potato into. But without DE having something that requires people to invest into the game will die. There are a lot of games that have tried to go the route of everything free, but for the most part they end up giving sub-par customer service and in the end their player base finds something new. There has to be a balance between the developers being able to make enough to keep the game going while still providing entertainment to its player base. 

 

Personally to me its like a movie theater giving away free tickets to movies and then the people who got the tickets complaining about having to buy popcorn. Is it nice to have it for a movie, sure. Is it required? By no means. This to me is a good analogy of the issue stated in this thread. Im not trying to be rude by saying that either. I'm just looking at the topic from multiple sides.

[AgentNipple]

The purpose of a business is to make money, and DE can't always give everything away for earnable ways as it needs this funding to continue developing the game and paying the employee's wages. Yes, slots should be earnable, potatoes potentially too, and no my founder's status has nothing to do with my opinions. Lack of slots absolutely restricts gameplay's liquidity in leveling items but like any free 2 play game DE kind of has to pressure people to buy platinum so they can stay afloat.

No and its a good thing thats not what im asking, and no thats awesome if you want to put money into it I respect your decision.

 

Also rhoenix I understand your point and I am taking it into account but were talking about warframe here buddy

 

I know how hard it is to abandon weapons that you have leveled and especially ones that you put a potato into. But without DE having something that requires people to invest into the game will die. There are a lot of games that have tried to go the route of everything free, but for the most part they end up giving sub-par customer service and in the end their player base finds something new. There has to be a balance between the developers being able to make enough to keep the game going while still providing entertainment to its player base. 

 

Personally to me its like a movie theater giving away free tickets to movies and then the people who got the tickets complaining about having to buy popcorn. Is it nice to have it for a movie, sure. Is it required? By no means. This to me is a good analogy of the issue stated in this thread. Im not trying to be rude by saying that either. I'm just looking at the topic from multiple sides.

I appreciate you keeping an open mind and I am taking your statements into consideration but what im not fully understanding here is... how is the ENTIRE game and company gunna go under if they ONLY make slots earnable. Hell I could have asked them to be free but I think that would be a bit too easy.

Edited May 17, 2013 by AgentNipple

[rhoenix]

I am afraid this is complete nonsense, and a rumor spread by those that have never played premium tanks, they imagine they must be superior because they get their arse kicked by someone driving one. However, they dont stop to think that it is those who are generally more interested in a game that will spend money and therefore know how to get the best from any tank they drive.

 

I no longer play the game as several cammo paint schemes went missing from my account during a two month period and while they acknowledged they could see the items had been bought and there was no activity on the account during the stated period they refused to reimburse or replace the items. I only mention this as I am certainly no fan of wargaming, but premium tanks are NOT pay to win, regardless of the occasional tears to the contrary.

 

I can certainly grant the possibility that you're right here, as like I said above, I didn't play for very long.  However, your point is not well supported when I perform a google search on "wot premium tanks vs regular", and I find links like this:  http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/213721-if-premium-tanks-are-supposably-slightly-nerfed-as-compared-to-their-regular-brethren/

 

In that thread, multiple users state that a brand new premium tank will only be slightly worse than a fully upgraded non-premium tank of the same tier.  Moreover, the game matching with premium tanks is better than for non-premium (e.g. playing a tier 8 premium means you'll never have to fight against a tier 10 tank, though if you're playing a non-premium tier 8, you will).

 

Additionally, the MM matchup bonus premium tanks receive is simply not matched by non-premium tanks.

 

Now, I'm not knocking the modem that Wargaming.net is using here, as obviously it's working well for them.  However, this is precisely the sort of model that I would not like Warframe to use, as not only will much of the sense of discovery be lost, but much of the uniqueness as well.

Edited May 17, 2013 by rhoenix

[rhoenix]

Also rhoenix I understand your point and I am taking it into account but were talking about warframe here buddy

 

Oh, so now we're talking about Warframe again, since you don't want to continue talking about F2P comparisons?  

 

Good to know, and thanks for conceding the argument.

[deathscion]

 

I appreciate you keeping an open mind and I am taking your statements into consideration but what im not fully understanding here is... how is the ENTIRE game and company gunna go under if they ONLY make slots earnable. Hell I could have asked them to be free but I think that would be a bit too easy.

The ONLY items in the entire game that require actual money to obtain are additional slots for frames or weapons and exclusives such as excalibur prime, vandal weapons, and prime weapons. That is not a lot in terms of a FTP style game. Potato's can be found from alerts, every weapon can be obtained through alerts or crafting outside of the vandal/prime series, every frame outside of excalibur prime can be obtained without money, sentinels can be crafted as well. There are no content restrictions based on paying vs non paying players. Players spending time playing a game doesn't put money into developers hands unless they implement adds that I personally would never want to see in this game.

 

If there are no reasons for people to spend any money supporting a game, then the only people that will pay are people that want the convenience of getting something now and not waiting for it to craft. Once they get what they want they have no reason to keep buying. Just to change up the programming to make this stuff free/ obtainable without platinum would take a lot of hours to implement. Plus how will the Dev team even see your feedback without someone there to read it? Who is paying for those hours of programming? Who is paying for the employee to read your feedback? Economics 101 there is a term called tinstaafl, which means there is no such thing as a free lunch. EVERYTHING has a cost. Someone somewhere had to pay in some way to make something "free" to someone else. While the programming is happening those developers need a roof over their heads, water, electricity, computers and software, and other things. These all have costs and they add up. That is how an ENTIRE game and company go under. They don't get paid we don't get updates, new content, or support. Because of that players leave. It wouldn't be the first or last company that would happen to.

[Carcharias]

Seriously do people actually need to collect every weapon in the game?

YESH ! Its the space ninja shooter version of pokemon, gotta catch em all !

[Story4]

One of good thing would be the rank unlocked remain there, even if you sell the weapon. So when you re-purchase/build it, the Rank is still there, so if your dislike the new weapon, just re-take older one at previous level.

And it would be nice if you can pay (es. 100.000) credits for "taking out" the catalyst/reactor before selling the weapon.

 

If that were in the game it would be very good. Maybe even allow us to repurchase a warframe just for 200.000 creds and wait 1 day to get it not 3. This way slots are more like load-out slots instead of hinderance to progress.

[AgentNipple]

The ONLY items in the entire game that require actual money to obtain are additional slots for frames or weapons and exclusives such as excalibur prime, vandal weapons, and prime weapons. That is not a lot in terms of a FTP style game. Potato's can be found from alerts, every weapon can be obtained through alerts or crafting outside of the vandal/prime series, every frame outside of excalibur prime can be obtained without money, sentinels can be crafted as well. There are no content restrictions based on paying vs non paying players. Players spending time playing a game doesn't put money into developers hands unless they implement adds that I personally would never want to see in this game.

 

If there are no reasons for people to spend any money supporting a game, then the only people that will pay are people that want the convenience of getting something now and not waiting for it to craft. Once they get what they want they have no reason to keep buying. Just to change up the programming to make this stuff free/ obtainable without platinum would take a lot of hours to implement. Plus how will the Dev team even see your feedback without someone there to read it? Who is paying for those hours of programming? Who is paying for the employee to read your feedback? Economics 101 there is a term called tinstaafl, which means there is no such thing as a free lunch. EVERYTHING has a cost. Someone somewhere had to pay in some way to make something "free" to someone else. While the programming is happening those developers need a roof over their heads, water, electricity, computers and software, and other things. These all have costs and they add up. That is how an ENTIRE game and company go under. They don't get paid we don't get updates, new content, or support. Because of that players leave. It wouldn't be the first or last company that would happen to.

They are rare occastions and the items you left out are all the cosmetic items as well which i see people getting all the time so i dont think the sales of the company are really in the crap cute

[Aggh]

Seriously do people actually need to collect every weapon in the game? I personally have two sets I use and other than that I really don't need more. If something new comes out I can still try it out and see if i like it or not. Right now the ONLY things you cant get in game for free are EXTRA slots for weapons and frames, They also happen to be the cheapest possible things you can buy for platinum. I have played a lot of "FTP" games and some of them restrict level caps, experience gains, and even more major things. If you can spend a week of playing and not use a weapon, no matter how much invested time, there is no need to keep it.

 

One thing that really annoys me is when people give founders crap in these types of threads. Games don't make themselves and If you cant pay a bit of money to unlock a few slots then you should be thanking the founders because they made it possible for you to play an enjoyable game for free.

Calling it collecting is $&*&*#(%&.  It's perfectly reasonable for people to not want to sacrifice something they've poured hours of time into.  Requiring people to pay money or sacrfice something they've spent a lot of time on is ridiculous.

 

What a load of crap, you have no idea whether or not the people giving founders crap have spent money on the game.  Nevermind that even founders have come out against this system.